77 replies to this topic

[DevlinCognito]

Jep, on 14 June 2016 - 04:19 PM, said:

A good place to start (aside from turning the game over to someone that will actually do it justice) would be for the Clans and IS to have a little "time out" from each other. Massively lopsided player populations, over-quirked IS mechs, nerfed Clan mechs, and war deciding merc units aside, the two sides never really got to do any FW between just themselves. It has always been Clan vs IS and that needs to change. So, let the IS do their thing in the IS while the Clans start over from our homeworlds. A couple months of IS vs IS and Clan vs Clan only while the other issues are hammered out should do everyone some good.

P.S. Feel free to restrict the merc units to IS only.

What I would really like to see though, is an expansive battletech universe where we can freely move around on worlds like other mmo's and attack or defend at certain points on the map instead of dropping into the same old random maps that we have all dropped on countless times. Maybe start from our factions homeworlds with individual units (or joint units) striking out and claiming surrounding planets of their choice from npc defenders of varying strength and numbers with the planets themselves having different values based on the facilities that can built, improved, damaged or even destroyed along with various resources that could be sold or traded. Some infantry (including elementals), tanks, and both air and spacecraft would also be nice. But I am really starting to get ahead of myself now. I know all that is pretty much just a pipe dream at this point in time, especially with these people owning and controlling it all, but it is still a nice dream to have. Anyway, that is what I think.

Ideally this! However that would require a MAJOR re-write so we'd be waiting till old age for that.

A quick fix I wouldnt mind seeing that would be (relatively) feasible is two maps, the Inner Sphere and Kerensky Cluster. Every player has 2 pilots, Clan and IS, and can jump freely from IS or Clan at will. If Clans are having a quiet day, then jump into your chosen IS Faction to get fights.

[CMetz]

I'll start with the basics here-
1. Give people a reason to play FP over QP. My suggestion is simple- Double the rewards for FP. Offset with a little bit paid back to repair and rearm if needed. Throw in a bit of salvage and you're really talking. No one should be able to make more money grinding their mechs for giggles when they could be gloriously defending their home worlds or gaining land in the name of their ruling house.

2. Give people a reason to stick with FP over QP. Depth- This means planetary economy. It doesn't need to be EvE with mechs. Just so much more than we have now. Yes, people get MC now, but the value of MC has diminished so much with the new mech pack preorder model. Give planets perks, let some have factories that open up new mech chassis. Let some have weapon factories that provide slight module-like buffs. If anyone ever played Mekwars Legends (not MWLL), then you've experienced a serious planetary economy.

3. Give people a true progression. Differentiate loyalists, mercs and freelancers. There are some differences now, but make career choice a serious choice. Currently this operates off of negative reinforcement- there are penalties if you switch. Make it operate off of positive reinforcement- make it so that you never want to leave the faction you picked if you're a loyalist. Make the merc life lucrative in its own right. Afford privileges to lone wolves that the other career paths don't get. Give multiple skill trees so that pilots can develop and specialize. A few more MMO features would not hurt the game at all.

I'm sure I could go into more depth... but I think this is a good point to start from.

[BSK]

xX PUG Xx, on 14 June 2016 - 03:36 PM, said:

To the OP, apologies for derailing your thread but some things boil my blood.

It shouldn't, because I was just bringing in facts to counter your proposal. Mature people should be able to handle that.

Here is a tl:dr version for what happened so far:

• #30 PUG: Units need to give guidance.
  
• #32 BSK: People do not want guidance.
  
• #38 PUG: When did I ask you for guidance?

[xX PUG Xx]

BSK, on 14 June 2016 - 09:02 PM, said:

It shouldn't, because I was just bringing in facts to counter your proposal. Mature people should be able to handle that.

Did you actually read either of your posts? You honestly believe that they were mature, cartoons et al?

At what point did my SUGGESTION, not request, ask for your guidance or even infer that it was a slight towards your unit. You were the individual to resort to derogatory comments, while trying to couch it as "friendly guidance".

As for tl:dr, stick em where the sun doesn't shine (that is as immature as I'm going here).

Have a nice day.

[BSK]

xX PUG Xx, on 14 June 2016 - 09:32 PM, said:

Did you actually read either of your posts?

Did you? Because it seems like you were offended before you even tried to understand them. And if you close your suggestion with these words;

xX PUG Xx, on 12 June 2016 - 06:47 PM, said:

(I'm leaving myself open to SOOOOOOO much hate mail here)

then be a man and take criticism without throwing a tantrum. My last guidance offered to you, have a look at the Dunning-Kruger effect that I mentioned above. It really helps to understand my point and where you are wrong.

Here is another suggestion to improve faction play, learn to have mature and factual conversations on the forums!

Have a nice day, too.

[xX PUG Xx]

BSK, on 14 June 2016 - 10:27 PM, said:

Did you? Because it seems like you were offended before you even tried to understand them. And if you close your suggestion with these words;

then be a man and take criticism without throwing a tantrum. My last guidance offered to you, have a look at the Dunning-Kruger effect that I mentioned above. It really helps to understand my point and where you are wrong.

Here is another suggestion to improve faction play, learn to have mature and factual conversations on the forums!

Have a nice day, too.

Lets see here, you did not attempt to discuss my suggestion by using facts, you attempted to debunk it by attacking ME, do you need me to quote the specific sentences? How can you possibly claim to use facts when you do not know any facts about me, beyond what little I have posted on these forums?

As for your wiki link, that can be taken as either you think I am inept and have delusions of superhuman ability or that I'm actually pretty good, don't realise it and can't understand why others can't do the things I can. Either way, you are attacking ME, not discussing the idea of limiting groups or trying to help smaller groups and solos (bare in mind that there are many new players/groups out there that do not have the experience of 2-4 years of playing this game). So if you want to talk about having mature conversations, start by actually reading what you have written and the context you are portraying it. Not a snapshot, attempt at making yourself look good while degrading others.

I had expected the idea to attract comments along the line of "come on PUG, you remember how bad it was when we could only get four of our friends into a group at one time" or "It won't stop groups from sync dropping whenever they want, not without a hard limit on the number of players from a single unit in one drop". You however chose to attack me and my choice of not joining your unit, which comes across as extreme sour grapes I'm afraid.

At no point until now have I publicly said a cross word about you or your unit, I could explain why I removed you and many others from my FL but it would be venturing into personal information that quite honestly is none of your, or anyone else on these forums, business. All I will say was it was a choice made to unburden others and not punish them, however in your case and after this display I would gladly remove you all over again.

[Red Shrike]

CMetz, on 14 June 2016 - 07:52 PM, said:

3. Give people a true progression. Differentiate loyalists, mercs and freelancers. There are some differences now, but make career choice a serious choice. Currently this operates off of negative reinforcement- there are penalties if you switch. Make it operate off of positive reinforcement- make it so that you never want to leave the faction you picked if you're a loyalist. Make the merc life lucrative in its own right. Afford privileges to lone wolves that the other career paths don't get. Give multiple skill trees so that pilots can develop and specialize. A few more MMO features would not hurt the game at all.

I'm sure I could go into more depth... but I think this is a good point to start from.

A little something I've thought of when it comes to differentiating Loyalists from Mercs is giving Mercs repair and rearm costs. Now, before you grab your torches and pitchforks, I do feel that the baseline Merc income should cover those repairs and rearms. That way Mercs are rewarded more for their personal performance, since being a Merc tends to be about the C-Bills.

IMO, another thing that has probably been mentioned before is the maps. They're the same thing over and over and over and over again. I mean, a polar map on a planet that's supposedly tropical? (Do we even have a tropical map in FP?) Besides being few in number, they're not exactly big or rich in opportunities and objectives. The maps are constantly funneling the attackers through chokepoints and meat grinders, never allowing for big battles or actual strategies other than rushing the defenders.

What might be an interesting idea is a new mode where instead of defending or attacking, the attackers and defenders meet out on the battlefield in a skirmish style game. (On sufficiently open and big maps like Polar Highlands, or maybe even bigger because respawns)
I feel this would only work if this was added to the invasion queue with a 50/50 chance of either attacking/defending or the skirmish mode I proposed, because otherwise people would only queue for the skirmish.

[invernomuto]

Red Shrike, on 15 June 2016 - 01:36 AM, said:

A little something I've thought of when it comes to differentiating Loyalists from Mercs is giving Mercs repair and rearm costs. Now, before you grab your torches and pitchforks, I do feel that the baseline Merc income should cover those repairs and rearms. That way Mercs are rewarded more for their personal performance, since being a Merc tends to be about the C-Bills.

Good idea. I support the proposal of getting back some form of Repair and Rearm in MWO, at least in CW. For Loyalists R&R costs could be covered (entirelly or by large part) by the IS House or Clan contractor. On the contrary, they should receive only minor salvage bonuses. For Mercs Units % of costs covered by the Clan or IS House could be defined in the contract: one strong merc unit coud prefer to sign for a contract that gives a better C-Bills income and offers only minor coverage to R&R costs. Merc units should also have a big salvage bonus.

Red Shrike, on 15 June 2016 - 01:36 AM, said:

IMO, another thing that has probably been mentioned before is the maps. They're the same thing over and over and over and over again. I mean, a polar map on a planet that's supposedly tropical? (Do we even have a tropical map in FP?) Besides being few in number, they're not exactly big or rich in opportunities and objectives. The maps are constantly funneling the attackers through chokepoints and meat grinders, never allowing for big battles or actual strategies other than rushing the defenders.

What might be an interesting idea is a new mode where instead of defending or attacking, the attackers and defenders meet out on the battlefield in a skirmish style game. (On sufficiently open and big maps like Polar Highlands, or maybe even bigger because respawns)
I feel this would only work if this was added to the invasion queue with a 50/50 chance of either attacking/defending or the skirmish mode I proposed, because otherwise people would only queue for the skirmish.

Agreed on maps and I also proposed a "meeting engagement" game mode, with points on the map that could be conquered and used as "spawning points" for the mechs that enter in the battle (in Red Orchestra 2 style).

Edited by invernomuto, 15 June 2016 - 04:46 AM.

[D V Devnull]

To anyone suggesting further splitting with Careers, has any of you noticed the massive decrease in the game's population since that began? We need to get rid of Careers, and restore the inviting feel of MWO. Failing removal of Careers, Post 15 of this thread contains a roadmap to restoring the inviting feel without stripping down too much. Community matters, and this whole Careers business (and getting locked into single paths) is only killing a game that could have had a massive population. Lines were meant to be blurred for games like MWO, and all paths open to traveling, because this type of game has always had the worst time growing a massive population. Don't kill what could have been good, because you were so bent on being too hardcore, elitist, limiting, and split-minded about everything! Look at the older MechWarrior games, see how they actively enabled you to follow all the paths, and enjoy the game forever! MechWarrior games have a certain spirit to be kept, and you're killing this one by trying to bury that spirit!

~D. V. "Trying to revive this game, and the eternal MechWarrior spirit, before it all dies..." Devnull

[BSK]

xX PUG Xx, on 14 June 2016 - 11:44 PM, said:

As for your wiki link, that can be taken as either you think I am inept and have delusions of superhuman ability or that I'm actually pretty good, don't realise it and can't understand why others can't do the things I can.

That is a very good start, at least you have read the introduction. Now transfer your new knowledge on your suggestion of guidance and my representation of my experiences.

xX PUG Xx, on 14 June 2016 - 11:44 PM, said:

I had expected the idea to attract comments along the line of "come on PUG, you remember

Then why didn't you counter my argument by saying, "Hey BSK, I have reached out to 1200 lonewolfs as well and they all accepted my friend request and they all appreciated my guidance"?
Because you didn't, and as I detailed, you are the perfect example to show yourself why it doesn't work that way, stop being dramatic about that. I am sorry that a short answer to your request of guidance and the suggestion to limit groups in faction play to 8 man after you founded a unit with 8 man would have broken the rules of conduct.

xX PUG Xx, on 14 June 2016 - 11:44 PM, said:

attempt at making yourself look good while degrading others.

Now this is what I wrote in my first post: "I offered you to join us or find an appropiate unit for you." And you keep posting and posting to win an argument by pretending I write this all because you didn't join my unit. I don't care about you, I don't care about winning the argument, you can have that. There are 2 unit leaders who told me yesterday that my voluntarily "guidance" inspired them to do the same and they want to reach out more often to lonewolfs. That's where I have won.

And of course I won't post here again without a suggestion to improve faction play, what if we change the order of attack planets in the corridor algorithm, the Ghost Bears are pretty fed up to see the name Nyserta, or the Wolfs to see Elissa again and again. Or why not even scramble the attack corridors in the next phase, lets try Ghost Bear, Smoke Jaguar, Jade Falcon and Clan Wolf. Then the loyalists meet new people and it's such a negilible change in the Lore, people should be able to accept it for 1 phase.

Red Shrike, on 15 June 2016 - 01:36 AM, said:

That way Mercs are rewarded more for their personal performance, since being a Merc tends to be about the C-Bills.

To amplify this, the rewards for mercs should have more fluctuation. A Loyalist has his regular service pay and gets a bonus for an important victory, while the Merc takes high risks and wins a lot for a victory but looses all for a loss. This way we encourage more people to join loyalists units and take the power from Mercs.

[KahnWongFuChung]

Sorry Faction play blows and PGI needs to bring back all the private leagues in the same format we played MechWarrior2-MechWarrior4 with on the MSN gamming zone.

If not they can kiss my assss with there MOBA E-Sport crap and my wallet stays closed
forever.

Edited by KahnWongFuChung, 15 June 2016 - 08:14 AM.

[DevlinCognito]

Ah that explains it. Re-reading this thread I see where this spiralled out of control.

Pug posted a silly suggestion that maybe units should try and assist new players to which you somehow developed a God complex that he was asking YOU for guidance

Easy mistake to make if you suffer from a superiority complex.

Pug then offended you by not taking your offer to join your unit and do his own thing. Yes yes I know, you don't care about that, but part of me feels you protest too much. Coming from someone who you also offered to join ('thats awfully kind of him' I thought) then after finding a unit elsewhere and having the misfortune to drop on your side being messaged about how the unit I chose was terrible and you are sooooo much better ('what a bell end' I thought) despite all evidence to the contrary.

Again, I can see how you have got the wrong end of the stick. You see, it is decent of you to reach out to new players and I have no doubt many appreciate the gesture (I did), if they do something other than what you suggest and you display behaviour worthy of a douche, that kind of kills any good will you have earned.

As for Pugs suggestion to cap units dropping in more than 8 man's, when he was currently in a 7 man unit breaking any kind of code of conduct.. really?!? Now you are reaching.

So what we have here is delusions of grandeur, paranoia, feelings of rejection and outright BS.. If I find a wiki link covering these does that make me super cool too?

[BSK]

DevlinCognito, on 15 June 2016 - 08:37 AM, said:

As for Pugs suggestion to cap units dropping in more than 8 man's, when he was currently in a 7 man unit breaking any kind of code of conduct.. really?!? Now you are reaching.

What? Please try to read carefully what I write, and if you don't understand, just ask me. No need to make a drama out of your misunderstandings every single post. It would take too much time to correct every single one you clearly misunderstood so far, let's end this derailing and get back on topic.

How about we introduce Pirate nations on the borders to those factions away from the invasion corridor?

[DevlinCognito]

BSK, on 15 June 2016 - 08:45 AM, said:

and the suggestion to limit groups in faction play to 8 man after you founded a unit with 8 man would have broken the rules of conduct

I apologise, it's almost as if this is what you typed. Oh look, it is.

If you really need to continue this, kindly take it to PM, I know you are awfully keen to get the last word in though.

[BSK]

DevlinCognito, on 15 June 2016 - 08:59 AM, said:

I apologise, it's almost as if this is what you typed. Oh look, it is.

Didn't you cut out the beginning of that sentence?

BSK, on 15 June 2016 - 07:44 AM, said:

I am sorry that a short answer to your request of guidance and the suggestion to limit groups in faction play to 8 man after you founded a unit with 8 man would have broken the rules of conduct.

Oh look, you did.

Let me help you there:" I am sorry that a short answer would have broken the rules of conduct." And I squeezed in a nesting sentence to repeat his first post. Seems like the whole drama you guys create is based on misunderstandings. It was him btw who wrote me in a PM on ComStar teamspeak that you were creating a unit with 8 man. Lost 1 already?

But dude you cannot post in this thread without making a suggestion how to improve faction play.
Here is another one, when the Viper comes out we reduce the scouting dropdecks to 40 tons!

[xX PUG Xx]

D V Devnull, on 15 June 2016 - 05:34 AM, said:

To anyone suggesting further splitting with Careers, has any of you noticed the massive decrease in the game's population since that began? We need to get rid of Careers, and restore the inviting feel of MWO.

I agree that the game needs to be as inclusive as possible, the current eystem of punishing players for trying find active factions makes to be a very harsh and excluding experience. Although if some form of penalty / reward system was not there the contract system would have to incorporate both a hard cap on population numbers/balance and an attractive payout system for underpopulated factions, whether it be automated or manually controlled.

I'm not sure at this point whether removing the whole loyalist/merc definition would help ir make things worse, in the past I would have said make everyone have to chose a faction loyalty. If there is no reason to be loyal, then there is no reason to continue to play longterm. This would require the removal of the seperate career trees but it would open up the possibility of creating one very long and rewarding loyalist career path, perhaps even incorporating chassis class (Light/Medium/Heavy/Assault) specialist branches.

The problem with most of the really good ideas are the amount of reprogramming PGI would have to invest and Russ Bullock has already stated what we have was the last major addition. So any changes will be at the micro level, I hope that merging factions to consolodate population qualifies as such.

BSK, on 15 June 2016 - 07:44 AM, said:

.

BSK, on 15 June 2016 - 08:45 AM, said:

?

You can cherry pick sentences for quotes like a tabloid journalist if you like but the context and implied meaning are taken from the whole. Anyone can read the sequence of threads and see you attacked me, my choices and my integrity, not simply disagreed with my suggestion. You created the drama, which my first reply laughed off but you couldn't leave it there and continued.

If you can't see that, it is you that has the problem. Personally I am finished with you, goodbye.

Edited by xX PUG Xx, 15 June 2016 - 10:26 AM.

[xX PUG Xx]

BSK, on 15 June 2016 - 09:34 AM, said:

. It was him btw who wrote me in a PM on ComStar teamspeak that you were creating a unit with 8 man. Lost 1 already?

Now you resort to outright lies, good thing I can get the chat logs from my PC.

You opened the chat window on the Comstar TS trying to explain how to get a channel setup, which was actually quite a nice thing to do. It's also something I already knew having been part of a small unit that did so over 3 years ago but I was polite enough to say thanks and leave it at that.

Again you try to cherry pick and twist comments to make you look like the agrieved party, i'm guessing politican or tabloid journalist, possibly a really bad lawyer. Whatever the case may be, my real thoughts and feelings on your conduct are unprintable regardless of any previous goodwill I had towards you and your accomplishments.

So please, do feel free to do one...I could explain what that means but THAT would be a breach of the CoC.

Edited by xX PUG Xx, 15 June 2016 - 10:05 AM.

[DevlinCognito]

BSK, on 15 June 2016 - 09:34 AM, said:

Didn't you cut out the beginning of that sentence?

Oh look, you did.

Let me help you there:" I am sorry that a short answer would have broken the rules of conduct." And I squeezed in a nesting sentence to repeat his first post. Seems like the whole drama you guys create is based on misunderstandings. It was him btw who wrote me in a PM on ComStar teamspeak that you were creating a unit with 8 man. Lost 1 already?

But dude you cannot post in this thread without making a suggestion how to improve faction play.
Here is another one, when the Viper comes out we reduce the scouting dropdecks to 40 tons!

Oh I understand, apologies. So you were going to break the code of conduct because someone suggested limiting the drop cap to the amount of people that happened to be in their unit at the time? Little drastic don't you feel? Of course not, that'll be the Dunning Kruger kicking in, putting 2 and 2 together and making 47.

Did I type 7? For someone who doesn't care, I appreciate the concern, but no, we're happy moseying along. Pretty sure the website is up to 10 now too.

The 'drama' that has been created was caused by you personally calling out Pug repeatedly in a long winded post which rambled about.. I still have no idea. Now I have no idea what occurred that made you take it so personal, but when his experiences of you seem to mirror mine and you seem to take great glee in mocking a new unit made up of people I enjoy hanging out with, then of course I will call you out for being a douche.

Now you appear to be happy derailing this thread and have some sort of need to air your grievances in public (shall we add narcissistic to the list now?), but maybe we could take this to PM's instead of continuing this bickering?

[Baulven]

Actually I just came up with a thought that would make people jump back to bring loyalists. Have a 20% discount on all purchases for the faction you are loyal to but make other tech cost 20% more. Mercs continue to purchase things for the listed price. I think the discounts would get a lot of people playing for one side of the other.

[BSK]

xX PUG Xx, on 15 June 2016 - 09:52 AM, said:

Personally I am finished with you, goodbye.

That was posting #56 but you had to write #57:

xX PUG Xx, on 15 June 2016 - 10:01 AM, said:

Now you resort to outright lies, good thing I can get the chat logs from my PC.
...
You opened the chat window on the Comstar TS

Yes I started the conversation and you wrote me back. That makes my statement that you wrote me in a PM an outright lie? No it doesn't. But is it really really REALLY worth it to be turned into another drama post here?

DevlinCognito, on 15 June 2016 - 10:18 AM, said:

I still have no idea

I know.

DevlinCognito, on 15 June 2016 - 10:18 AM, said:

Now you appear to be happy derailing this thread

No, in fact I executed my experiences and made a suggestion to improve faction play in almost all of my posts. You guys lack at least 7 suggestions.

Here is another one from me, what if me make it impossible for Mercs to pick contracts for overcowded factions. Like if it is at -10%, then there is no need for another Merc unit and they have to pick something else, evening out the population among the factions.