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Things That Would Make Faction Play Better


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#61 xX PUG Xx

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Posted 15 June 2016 - 02:35 PM

View PostBaulven, on 15 June 2016 - 12:10 PM, said:

Actually I just came up with a thought that would make people jump back to bring loyalists. Have a 20% discount on all purchases for the faction you are loyal to but make other tech cost 20% more. Mercs continue to purchase things for the listed price. I think the discounts would get a lot of people playing for one side of the other.


This could work, perhaps the discount is a little too much for everyones tastes but it would require each 'Mech and perhaps each variant to be assigned a Lore based faction. Quite an undertaking and can get a little confusing as many chassis' are actually available for multiple factions. However the idea does have merit and could even be a step towards an actual economy for FP, something that has seen discusdion on these forums many times over the years.

Once the 'Mechs/variants have specific factions "tagged" to them, assign their production to specific planets. If an enemy faction capture a factory planet, they claim the discount for that 'Mech/variant, however I would cap the discount at perhaps 5-10% and limit it to active players in FP.

Meanwhile changing the MC pot for tagged planets to a factionwide CBill pot (or perhaps having both), again only available to active FP players. This could be based on a formula, maths is not my strong suite but something like;

Number of planets gained × 10,000,000 cbills ÷ number of active players?

#62 Baulven

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Posted 15 June 2016 - 08:27 PM

View PostxX PUG Xx, on 15 June 2016 - 02:35 PM, said:

This could work, perhaps the discount is a little too much for everyones tastes but it would require each 'Mech and perhaps each variant to be assigned a Lore based faction. Quite an undertaking and can get a little confusing as many chassis' are actually available for multiple factions. However the idea does have merit and could even be a step towards an actual economy for FP, something that has seen discusdion on these forums many times over the years.

Once the 'Mechs/variants have specific factions "tagged" to them, assign their production to specific planets. If an enemy faction capture a factory planet, they claim the discount for that 'Mech/variant, however I would cap the discount at perhaps 5-10% and limit it to active players in FP.

Meanwhile changing the MC pot for tagged planets to a factionwide CBill pot (or perhaps having both), again only available to active FP players. This could be based on a formula, maths is not my strong suite but something like;

Number of planets gained × 10,000,000 cbills ÷ number of active players?


I wouldn't tie it to planets or make it transferable. The simple reason being is that Mercs will simply take all the planets, may hop off once to get all the stuff they want then back to being a Merc. it would seriously compound the issue instead of making it better. As for faction specific that just requires a tag and a lot of mechs can be considered specific to multiple factions. It would be easy to code but I think the bonuses should always lie with the loyalists.

#63 xX PUG Xx

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Posted 15 June 2016 - 09:26 PM

View PostBaulven, on 15 June 2016 - 08:27 PM, said:


I wouldn't tie it to planets or make it transferable. The simple reason being is that Mercs will simply take all the planets, may hop off once to get all the stuff they want then back to being a Merc. it would seriously compound the issue instead of making it better. As for faction specific that just requires a tag and a lot of mechs can be considered specific to multiple factions. It would be easy to code but I think the bonuses should always lie with the loyalists.


Oh sorry, I should have stated that this was intended for loyalists and I agree with you. I did suggest (in one of the numerous threads/posts for improvements :D ) that Mercs should "survive" on contract payments and salvage, just as in the Lore (and real life).

Essentialy the loyalist units should be the bulwark of the population, supported by their House command structure and production might. Their rewards based on territory held and the ability to take more, rewarding their ability to hold or capture important strategic planets from adversaries. The value of being loyalist being in the slow but steady income from upholding your House/Clans position and defeating it's enemies.

I believe mercs should be smaller in force size and forced to survive on larger contract bonuses and increased salvage payouts, which could be linked or specified by the contract. Again this would be in keeping with the Lore of the BT universe and would encourage only the most competitive players/units to venture down this route. I don't believe a Merc unit should be able to hold (tag) a planet as this is something any ruling house would never condone but now I'm venturing into another discussion that I unfortunately don't have time for (still at work :( )

#64 AssaultPig

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Posted 15 June 2016 - 10:46 PM

the biggest problem is just the amount of time it takes to find game, especially if your group is <12 people

they need to figure out a way to consolidate the playerbase

#65 invernomuto

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Posted 15 June 2016 - 11:25 PM

View PostD V Devnull, on 15 June 2016 - 05:34 AM, said:

To anyone suggesting further splitting with Careers, has any of you noticed the massive decrease in the game's population since that began? We need to get rid of Careers, and restore the inviting feel of MWO. Failing removal of Careers, Post 15 of this thread contains a roadmap to restoring the inviting feel without stripping down too much. Community matters, and this whole Careers business (and getting locked into single paths) is only killing a game that could have had a massive population. Lines were meant to be blurred for games like MWO, and all paths open to traveling, because this type of game has always had the worst time growing a massive population. Don't kill what could have been good, because you were so bent on being too hardcore, elitist, limiting, and split-minded about everything! Look at the older MechWarrior games, see how they actively enabled you to follow all the paths, and enjoy the game forever! MechWarrior games have a certain spirit to be kept, and you're killing this one by trying to bury that spirit! Posted Image


Agreed, I have already proposed to reduce the faction switching penalities.
With the current system IMVHO penalities for leaving a faction are too high and I preferred the Phase 2 contract system.
However, IF PGI decides to proceed with the current three careers system (loyalists, mercs and freelancers) THEN I think we should have more differences between them. Right now the freelancer role is nearly unplayable and FW is dominated by mercs.

#66 Kotev

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Posted 16 June 2016 - 02:27 AM

The real problem is mech imballance. Clan mechs are inferior in allmost all cases and becouse of this nearly all expirienced players went to IS. Clans are underpopulated and 90% consist of new players and lose 90-95% of the time. Its frustrating expirience.

#67 Ssamout

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Posted 16 June 2016 - 03:39 AM

View PostKotev, on 16 June 2016 - 02:27 AM, said:

The real problem is mech imballance. Clan mechs are inferior in allmost all cases and becouse of this nearly all expirienced players went to IS. Clans are underpopulated and 90% consist of new players and lose 90-95% of the time. Its frustrating expirience.

Lol whut? Kodiaks, hunchies, ebons and a **** load of others might disagree with your assesment. How about skip the mechs and just blame it on noobs and we are closer to truth. Gating cw/fp/insert next name has been the real issue since this mode came out.

Because people who have played this game a lot, dont find it funny or anyway enjoyable to play with tier 5-4(-3) guys (sorry to all ya, <3 <3 <3 , but git gud), and thats why they have quit the mode, hence the underpopulation (+ long wait times to get games).

Ofcourse gating it now would kill the mode, so that isnt the answer anymore. Perhaps gating just the ability to drop solo would help..

I'd vote for merging thee battle fronts, add new content and redesigning the maps, but sadly have serious doubts for that to ever happen.

Edited by Ssamout, 16 June 2016 - 04:09 AM.


#68 invernomuto

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Posted 16 June 2016 - 04:43 AM

View PostKotev, on 16 June 2016 - 02:27 AM, said:

The real problem is mech imballance. Clan mechs are inferior in allmost all cases and becouse of this nearly all expirienced players went to IS. Clans are underpopulated and 90% consist of new players and lose 90-95% of the time. Its frustrating expirience.


The balance IMHO is not the issue here.
The problem is that usually people starts with IS mech because there is more variety and they cost less than clans (to master a timberwolf, you need to spend about 45 million C-Bills). E.g., I started this game about 5 months ago and I still do not have a clan dropdeck. Once you start with IS, it's less expensive to stick with that side since you can get a new mech and equip it with engine and weapons from other mechs. If you switch to clan, you have to buy everiyhing from zero (and clan tech usually cost a LOT).

#69 Kotev

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Posted 16 June 2016 - 09:00 AM

Then i suggest you come to clan and see it for yourself how mechs are ballanced. I want challange so i play clan but to lose allmost all games is not so fun.

#70 Ssamout

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Posted 16 June 2016 - 09:48 AM

View PostKotev, on 16 June 2016 - 09:00 AM, said:

Then i suggest you come to clan and see it for yourself how mechs are ballanced. I want challange so i play clan but to lose allmost all games is not so fun.

I've played a lot on the clan side, they work fine. It's a challenge because you need to really know your positioning and how to handle the heat cap, and how to avoid quirked IS mechs pushing, and how to aim. Beginning players usually fail in all of those.

Example of a clan pug team: 1/3 of the team are "snipers" with range n lrms, 1/3 medium range, and 1/3 brawl. Too few brawlers get wrecked when clashing with IS laser vomit, while snipers fail to do anything and medium range has heat capped after missing their alphas. and get wrecked after brawlers are dead. Lurmers keep lurming and asking for locks. GG. Nothing to do with mechs.

#71 xMEPHISTOx

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Posted 16 June 2016 - 09:21 PM

Quote

Things That Would Make Faction Play Better


eliminate solo pugs and make unit only, truly endgame play. no stragglers, no new players, make it something you work to get to and play in an organized fashion = faction play better.

#72 Ssamout

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Posted 17 June 2016 - 06:01 AM

View PostxMEPHISTOx, on 16 June 2016 - 09:21 PM, said:

make it something you work to get to and play in an organized fashion = faction play better.


This should have been the approach from day 1. Level of play would have been better, and player retention also because of that. Also it would have given more purpose for the grind in pug/pub queue.

#73 NUSQUAM

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Posted 19 June 2016 - 12:45 PM

I know I would love a Pirate faction that allows the use of any mech as well as unsanctioned modifications(Pseudo omnimech-lite). But you can't control a planet. Or just use of any mech, no planet control, but a reputation rank system that has no cap. So every X amount of rep you get a pattern of rewards that are random cockpit items(stolen swag), cbills(emphasis here), and MC. This would be for smaller units, or those that don't have the type of time to commit like a loyalist. Then you can break loyalty with minimal consequences because pirate. The high end would be going through the cycle rewards and you get paid better on personal performance rather than flat rewards. So if you do well, you can earn a ton of bank. But if you don't, even if your team wins you wouldn't get a whole lot. No guarantees like a loyalist or merc, but if you pull off MVP on a winning side... The downside is that is it very dependent on personal skill. Plus you can go anywhere, help anyone, etc. Perhaps limit it to attacking only to emulate the the distrust and hit and run nature of pirates. If you do a full 12man pirate drop then that territory goes to the attacker.

The flip side is th freelancers. Basically merc-lite. You can come in and help anyone, anytime, anywhere. Should have better rewards than quickplay.

Then theres mercs. You have a reward to fall back on if you don't do stellar, not as high as loyalist still, but personal play will offset it. Then you have contracts where you can go around still etc etc. Should earn some faction rep on the side too, but not as much as loyalists. They go where the money is to help balance populations. Then within the merc faction you get rewards for leaderboard placement. They can hold planets as well. The drawback here is that you have to adapt to the change in station.

So why do merc vs pirate or loyalist? VS Pirates you can attack, defend, get consistent income and bigger rank rewards. VS Loyalist you get variety in opponents and don't require the massive time investment.

Loyalists need a revamp. No rank cap, and a reason for staying and completing the long haul to get to max rank and beyond. Also rewards for staying with them along the way. I've seen mention of faction-specific variants. That would be awesome. Rank 5 for Kurita and get a DRG-5N(K) with a rep bonus and kurita paint job for example. Base rewards would be the highest, with an emphasis on things like assists in-game. The drawback here is time-investment and that you don't want to break loyalty.

tl;dr

Pirates:
  • Massive Cbill rewards for skilled pilots but need to pull high match scores
  • No base rewards, but bonuses to things like salvage
  • Any mech
  • Assist anyone in attacking
  • Can't hold planets
  • Cycle of loyalty rewards(items, cbills, mc)
  • No penalty for becoming a merc, but more difficult to become a loyalist
Freelancers:
  • Quickplay+, substanntially bigger cbill rewards.
Mercs:
  • Moderate rewards from contracts dependent on population saturation
  • Must 'follow the money'
  • Can hold planets
  • Separate reward tree for the unit itself
  • Leaderboard rewards
Loyalist:
  • Massive reward trees
  • Large base rewards
  • Loyalty rewards(like paints that give bonuses as well as special mech variants) based on time with faction(perhaps X amount of MC every week/month you're in?) and rank progression milestones(say every 5 you get a faction-specific mech of increasing tonnage)
  • Can hold planets, bonus to planetary rewards
  • Separate reward tree for the unit itself, bigger bonuses, but harder to get/larger time investment
Pirates would be the most lucrative risk vs reward, but you need to do well. Minimal time investment for modest rewards. For veterans that either don't haev the time, or just want to cut a bloodyswathe across the galaxy.

Freelancers are there to increase the FP population. As incentive to choose FP over QP they get bigger rewards. This is for beginers to dive into FP.

Mercs get a good amount of base rewards for modest time investment to that faction, but will eventually cycle out to a new one. Need to be adaptive. Basically Loyalist-lite in base ranks/rewards but players and units are rewarded from their leaderboard rankings as well as unit rank levels.

Loyalists get massive rewards and all sorts of goodies, but you're locked in(save for a massive penalty) but the long haul rewards are great and unique. You will get the highest amount of average income, both cbills and mc if you're taking/holding planets, and unique goodies. This is for any skill level that wants immersion into the community.

#74 D V Devnull

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Posted 20 June 2016 - 08:48 AM

Good post, NUSQUAM. I think you have a post full of thoughts there which are rather worth implementing. Add your thoughts to my post back on page 1, and CW/FP/FW would probably become a massive hit that people would flock in to play once again. :D

~D. V. "+1 Massive Like" Devnull

#75 Stikyard

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Posted 20 June 2016 - 11:47 AM

Last town hall ended on a note of brainstorming to consolidate FP into less buckets and finding ways to make this game type fun. I've seen a lot of good ideas within the community and I am grateful for all the work PGI has done and I'm glad to hear they will continue to at least try make FP better for everyone.

#76 NUSQUAM

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Posted 22 June 2016 - 09:21 PM

Really I just want a reason to mix clan and IS mechs in the same deck, and by extension have a reason to buy these clan mechs. I like them but limiting them to quickplay makes me want to focus more on IS for FP. I could go merc but then it's on again off again with one side over weeks. Would rather milk out the loyalist rewards.

#77 TWIAFU

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Posted 23 June 2016 - 04:51 AM

View PostxX PUG Xx, on 12 June 2016 - 06:47 PM, said:

I hate to suggest this, but:

Limit group size to 8 and put some pressure/onus on the units that are active in FP to give guidance to the smaller groups/solos. It also helps the wait times for the smaller groups by amalgamating them into the larger ones, while limiting (a little) the OP of large coordinated groups.

(I'm leaving myself open to SOOOOOOO much hate mail here)



Wait? What?!?!

You want me to shove 4 of my Unitmates off to the side so I HAVE to pick up some pugtards for a CW drop?

Yea, that will not fly.


Those small groups and solo's got Faction Chat, VOIP, and LFG and see how hard it is to get them to use the very tools they asked for. Now, force me to drop with them over my Unit?

LOL

No F'in way.

#78 Commander A9

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Posted 23 June 2016 - 01:29 PM

Open-field maps.

C-Bill bonus based on how many planets your faction captures, and your team captures.

Permanent attack lane, permanent defense lane.

No loyalist voting for who to attack.

Edited by Commander A9, 23 June 2016 - 01:30 PM.






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