46 replies to this topic

[Corrado]

LordNothing, on 07 June 2016 - 11:25 PM, said:

the underhive special, the blunderbuss, the scatter gun, buckshot, lb-x. call it what you like. its a weapon that has a terrible reputation. totally anti-pro. so what good are they. ive always felt theve had their niche, but what that is was not immediately clear.

the most recent hero sale had me buy a legend killer. with it i had intended to make it a dual ac10 platform. but the quirks did not line up with that plan. i could get a lot more dps keeping the lb-10s. i did replace the large lasers with 4 med lasers and a lot of ammo and some fire rate modules. i recently threw it into my fp deck.

yesterday not once but twice i had used it to utterly decimate squirrel rushes. legging several and killing many others. one time i managed to take out 5 of the little buggers. i presume the crit chance was helping it take out lights better, especially ones that had some battle damage. the cycle time certainly helped and the ability to do partial damage vs an all or nothing blast of a normal autocannon. the time window in which to line up with a close in light is rather short so it helps that i at least tick it down a little vs my ammo getting wasted into the dirt. then it can go on and hold its own in a brawl with heavies and assaults because of its high dps and low heat.

so are they really useless?

like the PPCs, the only case the LBXs are appealing, is when using a quirked mech. LBX on a legend killer have the almost the same cooldown of AC5s. i had a lot of fun with 4LBX on the mauler 1R (-15% cooldown) and did really chew lights and mediums.

but using it in a CN9D or a quirked LBX orion, a single LBX is still crap. even with insane quirks. why? because SRM boats are superior.

on the fun factor, yes i love to troll with some LBXs, till i feel the need to roll with a tryhard/carry build when puglottery rolls a bad streak.

[Moldur]

The LB-2X is the only 2 series autocannon that has a cooldown module, giving it the fastest unquirked rate of fire out of all of them.

[LordNothing]

lb2 <3

its brutal on the adder or that "underhive special" nova i posted awhile back. quirks+module for added awesomeness.

Edited by LordNothing, 08 June 2016 - 04:34 PM.

[Carrioncrows]

Well it's an old opinion, but I have always been of the mind to regulate the number pellets as well as increase the damage slightly..

Each weapon should shoot out 10 pellets.

For an AC 2 should deal 3 dmg total and they should shoot out 10 pellets that each do 0.3 dmg each
For an AC 5 should deal 7 dmg total and they should shoot out 10 pellets that each do 0.7 dmg each
For an AC10 should deal 13 dmg total and they should shoot out 10 pellets that each do 1.3 dmg each
For an AC20 should deal 24 dmg total and they should shoot out 10 pellets that each do 2.4 dmg each

This way all weapons are regulated into a Consistent performance and shot pattern no matter what Teir they are. They get the added benefit of dealing more damage but rarely to a single location unless pretty point blank.

But...it's old news. *shrug*

[Hit the Deck]

wanderer, on 08 June 2016 - 12:09 PM, said:

Math is apparently hard.

Let's try this. Which kills better: 10 damage to the location that will kill the target, or spreading 10 damage across 3-4 or more locations including the one that kills it?

The only case where an LB-X is useful is when your aim is so bad that you wouldn't hit the target without it.

It's not about "math" or something. Like I said, we can adjust everything we want for balancing purposes. For example, the cumulative damage of all pellets doesn't need to amount to ten although it says LB-10X. Or make the projectile speed more than 9000m/s which is practically a hit scan. Just let loose your imagination.

Edited by Hit the Deck, 08 June 2016 - 05:39 PM.

[Trauglodyte]

LordNothing, on 07 June 2016 - 11:25 PM, said:

the underhive special, the blunderbuss, the scatter gun, buckshot, lb-x. call it what you like. its a weapon that has a terrible reputation. totally anti-pro. so what good are they. ive always felt theve had their niche, but what that is was not immediately clear.

the most recent hero sale had me buy a legend killer. with it i had intended to make it a dual ac10 platform. but the quirks did not line up with that plan. i could get a lot more dps keeping the lb-10s. i did replace the large lasers with 4 med lasers and a lot of ammo and some fire rate modules. i recently threw it into my fp deck.

yesterday not once but twice i had used it to utterly decimate squirrel rushes. legging several and killing many others. one time i managed to take out 5 of the little buggers. i presume the crit chance was helping it take out lights better, especially ones that had some battle damage. the cycle time certainly helped and the ability to do partial damage vs an all or nothing blast of a normal autocannon. the time window in which to line up with a close in light is rather short so it helps that i at least tick it down a little vs my ammo getting wasted into the dirt. then it can go on and hold its own in a brawl with heavies and assaults because of its high dps and low heat.

so are they really useless?

The LB is such a bad weapon that the top e-sport MWO teams use it in comp matches. So, it can't be good.

[Felicitatem Parco]

wanderer, on 08 June 2016 - 12:09 PM, said:

The only case where an LB-X is useful is when your aim is so bad that you wouldn't hit the target without it.

...or when you can't put 4 AC/10s on a Mauler and have to use the LBXs...

Or you are sick of Clan UACs. I know this does not count as more useful but it is a Use.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 08 June 2016 - 06:48 PM.

[Johnny Z]

If I wasn't trying to save creds I would get a Rifleman with the LBX-10 right now. I always thought the Rifleman would be one of the best inner Sphere line mechs. Name fits even, and profile with high hard points definately does.

[Lyoto Machida]

Bud Crue, on 08 June 2016 - 05:13 AM, said:

Effective? Only way I have seen them be truly effective is if you play like a bit of a d-bag and hold off engaging until near the end of the match wherein you are nearly fresh and playing against opponents who are all severely damaged.

To wit: there is a fellow who I have seen a couple of times now who runs an Atlas DDC with a shotgun build. He hides until the rest of the team is dead or nearly so. If he gets lucky, and his fellows have done a good job hitting the enemy (though obviously not a good enough job to have won without him) he waits until the end of the match and the surviving reds are really messed up, then comes out of hiding and cleans house. The LBXs (and SRMS) do a great job of blowing off legs and criting components. Saw this guy finish up 6 mechs with out much effort doing this. Lame? Yes. Effective? Perhaps.

In any case, I personally like LBX, but I treat them like small lasers. I try to get in REALLY close and then blast away. Using them at range is just a waste of ammo. Up close and chain firing them (2-4) sounds great and makes many a player run away. If you are doing this with a murder ball, you might just help out with a well timed crit.
Panther running an LBX is laugh out loud fun. Effective? Who cares.

Hah...sounds like a not so serious DDC I used to run. Something like 2 LB 10-Xs, 3 ASRM6 and 2 ML or something.

[Kubernetes]

Haipyng, on 08 June 2016 - 12:31 PM, said:

The funny thing is MWO is a team based game, except everyone always treats it as a Deathmatch game, no matter the map type. Most kills with pin point damage is the only measure of your worth.

Frankly with the number of aim bots or cheats floating around to me means that doesn't count for anything. If using an lbx weapon is fun for you and you are assisting your team (legging lights or whatever) go for it. The measure of your value to the team doesn't always come up in numbers or is reflected in rewards.

A NARC ninja is usually appreciated by anyone with LRMs, scouts are invaluable for locating massed enemy's, capping, or running down other lights, sometimes it just being the one that leads a push.

Yeah, but we're talking about a weapon's effectiveness. By all means run fun builds, but don't pretend like it's actually good or effective. I occasionally run a triple lbx Ilya for laughs, but it's terrible compared to running uac5s.

[Prof RJ Gumby]

I use lbx in my Cent-D facehugger build, together with 2 flamers and 2xsrm4. Very situational, but in right situations it's a total killer. 1vs1, if I can jump the enemy, I easily win against any med, heavy or assault not toting heat neutral weapons. LBX runs very cool so enemy flamers don't bother me much. It's also works wonders in scouting mode, especially on caustic valley.

[Grijm]

I put 2 x LBX20 on my dire, surprisingly it doesn't have ghost heat like 2 x UAC20

[xengk]

Prosperity Park, on 08 June 2016 - 06:47 PM, said:

Or you are sick of Clan UACs. I know this does not count as more useful but it is a Use.

I use both on different mech.
LBX front load the damage, allowing me to snap-fire/shot-n-twist.
UAC are good against face tanker and distracted target, not so against moving target.

What puzzles me is why the cLBX10 take up more slot than a cAC10, while the IS version is reverse.

[PhoenixFire55]

LBX is an amazing weapon. People who claim otherwise simply never run brawler configs. At 100m ranges they become pinpoint much like regular IS ACs, at rangers ~500-600m they are still great at taking out open components (light mech with red legs running away from you etc.) with an almost guaranteed hit. For Clans LBXs are pretty much the only viable brawler ballistic option due to ridiculous facetimes with CACs.

Stop trying to make LBXs identical to regular ACs. They are different, and each has its own use.
If anyone thinks LBXs are bad I suggest you go and hug a quad LBX Mauler/Kodiak.

Edited by PhoenixFire55, 09 June 2016 - 03:19 AM.

[Corrado]

PhoenixFire55, on 09 June 2016 - 03:19 AM, said:

LBX is an amazing weapon. People who claim otherwise simply never run brawler configs. At 100m ranges they become pinpoint much like regular IS ACs, at rangers ~500-600m they are still great at taking out open components (light mech with red legs running away from you etc.) with an almost guaranteed hit. For Clans LBXs are pretty much the only viable brawler ballistic option due to ridiculous facetimes with CACs.

Stop trying to make LBXs identical to regular ACs. They are different, and each has its own use.
If anyone thinks LBXs are bad I suggest you go and hug a quad LBX Mauler/Kodiak.

exactly. but i keep saying LBX need either a consistent damage buff or a consistent cooldown buff. the C-LBX does have reasons (single shot instead burst C-UAC) but doesnt have any on the IS side. IS AC are single shot already, weight just one ton and one slot more.

A single LBX10 is not enough, the 4LBX10 mauler is just for fun, the 4UAC5 or 5AC5 are superior. Start giving IS LBX5 and 20, we'll test em on brawlers and if still subpar, buff damage or cooldown.

Edited by Corrado, 09 June 2016 - 06:43 AM.

[Mystere]

Significantly increasing their rate of fire and ammo count is an easy and reasonable buff. Nothing else needs to be changed.

Edited by Mystere, 09 June 2016 - 07:20 AM.

[Kubernetes]

PhoenixFire55, on 09 June 2016 - 03:19 AM, said:

LBX is an amazing weapon. People who claim otherwise simply never run brawler configs. At 100m ranges they become pinpoint much like regular IS ACs, at rangers ~500-600m they are still great at taking out open components (light mech with red legs running away from you etc.) with an almost guaranteed hit. For Clans LBXs are pretty much the only viable brawler ballistic option due to ridiculous facetimes with CACs.

Stop trying to make LBXs identical to regular ACs. They are different, and each has its own use.
If anyone thinks LBXs are bad I suggest you go and hug a quad LBX Mauler/Kodiak.

Why would I? Last night I faced off against a KDK w/ 2 LB20X and 4cML. I was in my poptart Summoner. We were both fresh to start, but he ended up dead while my armor was just yellowed. If the guy were carrying normal ACs or UACs he'd have wasted me (or at least persuaded me to find another target). I just danced around at 300-400 meters while he tried to sandblast me. And it wouldn't have made a difference if he were a Mauler boating LB10X--at anything beyond knife-fighting range the spread is too great to be very ineffective.

[wanderer]

Quote

Cent-D

Let's see. It's an LB-X. With 40% cooldown, 20% velocity, and 10% less spread before modules.

That a weapon needs that much to be useful puts it in the same boat as PPCs- it's mediocre at best without quirks.

Quote

At 100m ranges they become pinpoint much like regular IS ACs, at rangers ~500-600m they are still great at taking out open components (light mech with red legs running away from you etc.) with an almost guaranteed hit.

So a weapon blows 12 tons to deal ten pinpoint damage with an effective 100m range and then rapidly turns into a tickle gun that compensates for your inaccuracy by spraying a target with damage they'll ignore unless already massively wounded.

Note: At 100m, the same 12 tons will get you 16 SRMs, dealing more than triple the damage. 12 if you want Artemis to group em better.

Edited by wanderer, 09 June 2016 - 10:26 AM.

[Green Mamba]

Well you can always switch between either standard rounds or cluster rounds for increasing lethality depending on whether a mech is cored or still armored right? They did finaly put that in the game ,correct? They kept to their word and put Knockdowns back in the game

Edited by Green Mamba, 09 June 2016 - 11:42 AM.

[Apnu]

The ENF-5D is a great LB-10 delivery machine. Its got a combined 20% LB10 cooldown quirk and range, velocity, and spread quirks its pretty good. I struggled with the ENF-5D for a long time, then I found if I put on a LPL and MPL on one side and got a mech open, I could close with the 87KPH speed pretty fast and blast that LB10 like it was the autoshotty in Counterstrike. Scares the hell out of people, I tell you.