204 replies to this topic

[General Solo]

People said Can't brawl never on Polar, I showed proof.
Plus the people making these statements are not highly coordinated, so the advice is sound.

Also if you noticed, I was peeking/poking and they barely hit me.
So how they gonna hit me with missiles, with the extra delay built in the lock mechanic.

You missed the entire point. Co-ordinated enemy or not, there is cover as the video demonstrates.
Keeping LOS exposure to the enemy short, minimises return fire (including narc) and can defeat the LRM lock mechanic totally.

Edit: Also the enemy was winning 2-5 before I started I kill streak in my SRM summoner, The surivors and I secured the win. You can't say the brawler (ME ), didn't play apart.

Remember at the start of the video how I'm peeking/poking.

This achieves a few things.
1 As previously stated minimizes return fire.
2 Distracts the enemy, even in a brawl mech when you cant fire back
3 Draws fire away from team mates
4 Makes the enemy waste ammo

The most common mistake people make, leaving cover, charging in the open and then they wonder why they got LRMed to death.

That game wasn't a one off, done it in a 12 small pulse party crow plenty of times (pre nerf)
And I pop narc wid a slightly guilty pleasure all the time on polar. Summoner Quad Lerm 10 and narc.

I don't have a problem with lerms on polar, others also don't
So it's clearly possible.

Your right about the narc, if you get narced, but cover can minimise even that unless it's a pop narc

Que evil laugh Muhahahahahaha

Besides it's one map, let the lerms and narcer have some fun, on other maps the tables are turned
So it seems fair to me.

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 11 July 2017 - 08:27 PM.

[Aggravated Assault Mech]

OZHomerOZ, on 11 July 2017 - 08:15 PM, said:

People said Can't brawl never on Polar, I showed proof.
Plus the people making these statements are not highly coordinated, so the advice is sound.

Also if you noticed, I

I understand why you won, my point is that most games on polar highlands tend to have more LRMs. Your success has less to do with the overall effectiveness of brawling on Polar, and more to do with the fact that the enemy was basically trying to use the same tactics of closing and fighting at short range.

While you were peeking from cover, the positions you were playing weren't safe from spotting. If there were more LRMs on the enemy team something as simple as a UAV could have ruined your day.

Suggesting Polar is fine because LRMs suck on other maps is also bad design. Give Polar better cover and then buff LRMs so they're more effective elsewhere. That way they aren't deadweight when you get River City or Crimson Straight.

[Damnedtroll]

Having the choice of mech class ( light, medium, heavy and assault) before choosing the map and the possibility to choose the specific mech after the map is chosen would be awesome.

Will not affect the balance to much ( if it exist really) and we would be able to choose the better payload for the map between our mech in the specific mech class. .

[General Solo]

Aggravated Assault Mech, on 12 July 2017 - 12:34 AM, said:

I understand why you won, my point is that most games on polar highlands tend to have more LRMs. Your success has less to do with the overall effectiveness of brawling on Polar, and more to do with the fact that the enemy was basically trying to use the same tactics of closing and fighting at short range.

While you were peeking from cover, the positions you were playing weren't safe from spotting. If there were more LRMs on the enemy team something as simple as a UAV could have ruined your day.

Suggesting Polar is fine because LRMs suck on other maps is also bad design. Give Polar better cover and then buff LRMs so they're more effective elsewhere. That way they aren't deadweight when you get River City or Crimson Straight.

I'm fine with agreeing to disagree.
People can read both our posts and make up their own minds.

[7VWIuV]

OZHomerOZ, on 11 July 2017 - 08:15 PM, said:

People said Can't brawl never on Polar, I showed proof.
Plus the people making these statements are not highly coordinated, so the advice is sound.

Also if you noticed, I was peeking/poking and they barely hit me.
So how they gonna hit me with missiles, with the extra delay built in the lock mechanic.

You missed the entire point. Co-ordinated enemy or not, there is cover as the video demonstrates.
Keeping LOS exposure to the enemy short, minimises return fire (including narc) and can defeat the LRM lock mechanic totally.

Edit: Also the enemy was winning 2-5 before I started I kill streak in my SRM summoner, The surivors and I secured the win. You can't say the brawler (ME ), didn't play apart.

Remember at the start of the video how I'm peeking/poking.

This achieves a few things.
1 As previously stated minimizes return fire.
2 Distracts the enemy, even in a brawl mech when you cant fire back
3 Draws fire away from team mates
4 Makes the enemy waste ammo

The most common mistake people make, leaving cover, charging in the open and then they wonder why they got LRMed to death.

That game wasn't a one off, done it in a 12 small pulse party crow plenty of times (pre nerf)
And I pop narc wid a slightly guilty pleasure all the time on polar. Summoner Quad Lerm 10 and narc.

I don't have a problem with lerms on polar, others also don't
So it's clearly possible.

Your right about the narc, if you get narced, but cover can minimise even that unless it's a pop narc

Que evil laugh Muhahahahahaha

Besides it's one map, let the lerms and narcer have some fun, on other maps the tables are turned
So it seems fair to me.

Since you made me go trough the painful experience of watching you fight an assault mech at short range while zoomed in with heat vision on I will reply this roughly.

Yes, it is possible to brawl on this map on Skirmish mode. Poorly, and with little tactics. And only if you are lucky enough to have most of the mechs from BOTH teams loaded for it. I wouldn't call brawling what you posted though. IMO that's more like a mech mosh pit. With few terrain obstacles there's no way to filter the fighters before engagement. Piloting a short range mech on this map you must either charge along a deathball or stay hidden like you did waiting for the opportunity to score a kill.

Plus this doesn't add up to the discussion. The point here is there is no way to defend against a LRM rain on this map (except maybe with AMS reverse rain), so whenever your team is outnumbered on LRM boats it's bound to lose. As far as I could see, the match you posted only has 2 mechs on the opposing team with LRMs (one LRM15 and a LRM20) and at least one on your own team. That is very few and that's just luck. If matchmaking also balanced armament types this wouldn't be an issue too but afaik that is not how the game works atm.

If someone posts a fight on Polar where the enemy team significantly outnumbers his own on LRM boats and he still manages to score some kills with a brawling mech I will rest my case.

BTW, I have a lot of fun with LRMs myself, on all maps. But mostly at short and medium ranges and only after I can see what I'm shooting at.

Edited by 7VWIuV, 13 July 2017 - 12:30 PM.

[General Solo]

I zoomed in to make you pay attention

Fat lot of good it done

[Void Angel]

The only shortcoming of this map is that the trenches don't block LRMs - this is a real opportunity for improvement, but not a crippling deficiency that automatically makes the LRM-heavy team win. PEBKAC.

[Evilwallofdeath]

Hello. All you've got to do is use the valleys to make your way up to the enemy. The map could use a bit more hard cover, some ice krags or something near the middle. But, other than that it's an okay map as long as you're using good tactics. I've won plenty of matches against boat teams there.

[Weisse]

Remove this map from the game: it is good only for LRM noobs and boring for all the others

[7VWIuV]

Void Angel, on 14 July 2017 - 03:12 PM, said:

The only shortcoming of this map is that the trenches don't block LRMs - this is a real opportunity for improvement, but not a crippling deficiency that automatically makes the LRM-heavy team win. PEBKAC.

I vote for deeper trenches. It's a great solution.

[Void Angel]

It would work, but it would also be a significant change to how the map plays - what I should have said was that the trenches don't adequately block spotting. If we made trenches deep enough to actually block LRMs, it would channelize players who use that cover because you couldn't climb out without jump jets.

Honestly, I think reworking LRMs would be a more elegant and better overall solution to the map's LRM woes.

Edited by Void Angel, 17 July 2017 - 04:18 PM.

[General Solo]

Lerms are already meh weapons.
Don't bury them for one map.

[Marshal Jim Duncan]

This map is ok, but the general hating of it is a symptom of a bigger problem: the inability to choose a loadout/mech based on the map.

I love my small-pluse-lazzzer nova; but why would I bring it to this map? I don't mind giving c-bills to a good opponent, but it's frustrating to get crapped on because the mech I have selected is just inappropriate for the map the group-think has chosen.

For quick-play, we should have some interface that allows this logic: "If {{map.a}} then drop with {{mech.b}}". I don't think that kind of equation would crush the servers and people could start enjoying the quick-play a little more. This map is great for faction-play because I can bring the correct mechs if I want.

[Kaethir]

Evilwallofdeath, on 15 July 2017 - 10:17 PM, said:

Hello. All you've got to do is use the valleys to make your way up to the enemy. The map could use a bit more hard cover, some ice krags or something near the middle. But, other than that it's an okay map as long as you're using good tactics. I've won plenty of matches against boat teams there.

While to a certain extent I agree with you, that is going to take a LOT more patience than most of the general population has, since sometimes following the trenches takes you WAY out of your way to get to the opponents. Even though it can be necessary.

[Void Angel]

Kaethir, on 18 July 2017 - 07:20 AM, said:

While to a certain extent I agree with you, that is going to take a LOT more patience than most of the general population has, since sometimes following the trenches takes you WAY out of your way to get to the opponents. Even though it can be necessary.

Which is why deepening the trenches and valleys enough to block incoming LRMs is a sub-optimal solution in my book. Better to rework LRMs into a more internally balanced system than to scrap an excellent and unique map design.

The irony of these complaints should not be overlooked: players have carped for years that all the maps play the same - and many now refuse to adapt to one that really is radically different.

[Weisse]

imho It is not a matter of adapting to change: all other maps are fine: this one is just dumb

Probably as many suggested putting somne repairs in it would be sufficient

Edited by Weisse, 05 August 2017 - 02:54 AM.

[BTGbullseye]

Even without LRMs, this is a really fun map compared to the excessively overused HPG Manifold... I have more fun losing here than I do winning on almost any other map. (and way more fun winning)

[Void Angel]

The map is unique in its play style - which is what causes those who do not wish to adapt their play styles to hate it so.

[KursedVixen]

My suggestions are not free, needs more cover.

[Carl Vickers]

KursedVixen, on 30 August 2017 - 09:23 AM, said:

My suggestions are not free, needs more cover.

My suggestions are free, take moar AMS.