204 replies to this topic

[Thorqemada]

Have a very positive W/L (for me) on that map.
Still i dont feel it a great map but for variety reasons it can stay - fixing it is impossible.

Daytime seems always be the same...giving it the same boring look all the time.

Edited by Thorqemada, 08 June 2016 - 03:12 PM.

[Calebos]

It is the most ******** piece of work PGI did ever. Even they are producing so much rubbish bullsh.t this deserves "special edition" of criticism ...

[Fox the Apprentice]

I dislike this map, probably because I like ballistics and (medium-ish range) lasers. There isn't enough cover for a heavy to close range without getting destroyed by LRM fire (and/or long-range lasers).

Nice that the map is good for PPCs, though. I don't like using them, but there aren't very many in use these days.

[Shu Horus]

Only partly agree with that. 100% true for LRM spamming. If someone is keeping the locks, LRMs are a pain on this map as there is practically no cover to avoid them apart from having Radar Dep. and enough speed to get out of sight quickly. Even the scattered buildings on this Map are not high enough to effectivly use them as cover against incomming missles.

But for any direct fire Weapons, there is enough cover available to get into medium or close range. Hills are high and Canyons are deep enough to even fully cover an Atlas. You just have to use them.

But most hills are so flat, that fortunatly they are a very bad choice for poking Players, as it takes way to long for anything below 100 kph to get back into cover when doing Laser or PPC poking.

Communication is everything on this Map, just because it is so damn big. The quick guys need to find the enemies main force and you have to plot a route to get to them. If both Team just keep to the Deathball tactic, stoicly walking to one of the standard engagement points, it is perfectly possible to not engage for over 10 minutes, as both Teams set up their firing lines, but out of sight of each other. Then the game usually decides by who looses patience first, and whose team members start to wander off on their own, then of course getting scrapped by the opponents set up firing line.

Conclusion: I don't like this map very much either.
Reason: All to often a bad spread of Missiles boats between teams often decides these games before they even started. Usually the LRM-Boat-Drivers vote for this map and if it gets voted with like 40% or more you already know where this game is going. Count your own Team members asking for Locks, if they are less than 4 get to one of the building sites to have at least a chance to avoid some of the Missile spamming that is going to happen.

Worst Scenario: Only on Light in each Team, the opponent gets the only one Mech with ECM and 6 of the 7 LRM-Boats in this game.
Funny as Hell....
When we reached the 600 m distance we were down to 0:5 (3 of the 4 assaults gone) and my Adder's AMS was out of Ammo. Most likely would have been dead too already, if it was not for Radar Dep., as me beeing the only Light in our Team, with no ECM doing the scouting.

Cheers,
Nuit

Edited by Shu Horus, 06 July 2016 - 11:47 PM.

[pyrocomp]

Well, I'd say that is for now one on the best maps that require some awareness and understanding what our team is doing. The abovementioned scenario of LMRgeddon happens only when there is a enemy spotter behind your team and no one bothered to get rid of it. Or you charged across the open field (or any other form of skylining). So no, this map is really good, but requires some team play. And there is plenty of cover that stop LRMs. I know this from both ends as an LRM boat and as a DWF getting past them. Plus, this discussion already happend when Polar came out and the map on average was percieved as good. I've seen a 6cspl+4csrm6 timber score 1000+ on this map doing nothing but carefully manuevering and patiently waiting for the enemy to present themselves.

But if to change anything on this map it'll be general outlook. Let the daytime look like present night time (with it's grim impression of cold desolation) and new night time to be actually dark. Or whatever. Might be an idea to add 2-3-5 minutes blizzard in the middle of the match to give drastically change visibility and add more options on what and how to do.

[iNfUsi0N]

I like it. Not every game on this map is nascar which is good.

[Venshaw Kerensky]

sorry....my specific feedback Is not free. But one thing is for sure, this map sucks.

*it makes me log out*

Edited by Venshaw, 29 July 2016 - 03:00 AM.

[John McHobo]

What I like about this map is its size. Its one of the few maps where the decision on being fast or slow actually matters, unlike most smaller maps where all mechs arrive at the same time no matter their speed.

The main problem with the map is the HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE bias towards LRMs.
Since team composition in Pug-matches is random you end up with one team having 400tons of Lurmboats and snipers and one team with the same amount of tonnage in brawlers...and the game is over before it ever began.
This map needs a way to move underneath it, like a tunnel network.
This would take a dedicated brwaler off the map for some time, making him immune to Lurms while being unabled to attack himself until he emerges. If the tunnel exits are far off each other, snipers and long ranged mechs would still have an advantage while having to watch their backs.

In fact most maps would profit from a tunnel network, if well designed.
(Related thought: This would make night vision mode useful too, since the range above ground is so piss-poor. Seriously, no one sniping at night uses the night vision due to its range.)

Another thought to Lurmaggeddon on wide open maps: have you considered placing natural "pockets" on maps. If spaced out far enough these might be interesting too.

[iNfUsi0N]

John McHobo, on 29 July 2016 - 06:33 AM, said:

What I like about this map is its size. Its one of the few maps where the decision on being fast or slow actually matters, unlike most smaller maps where all mechs arrive at the same time no matter their speed.

The main problem with the map is the HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE bias towards LRMs.
Since team composition in Pug-matches is random you end up with one team having 400tons of Lurmboats and snipers and one team with the same amount of tonnage in brawlers...and the game is over before it ever began.
This map needs a way to move underneath it, like a tunnel network.
This would take a dedicated brwaler off the map for some time, making him immune to Lurms while being unabled to attack himself until he emerges. If the tunnel exits are far off each other, snipers and long ranged mechs would still have an advantage while having to watch their backs.

In fact most maps would profit from a tunnel network, if well designed.
(Related thought: This would make night vision mode useful too, since the range above ground is so piss-poor. Seriously, no one sniping at night uses the night vision due to its range.)

Another thought to Lurmaggeddon on wide open maps: have you considered placing natural "pockets" on maps. If spaced out far enough these might be interesting too.

ure speaking of a matchmaker issue. u can have unbalanced teams on every other map as well. the map is fine. bring long range mechs, vote for the maps and ull be fine. if a brawl map gets voted, deal with it.

[John McHobo]

Quote

ure speaking of a matchmaker issue. u can have unbalanced teams on every other map as well

Which is why I am against creating extremely biased maps in the first place.

[iNfUsi0N]

John McHobo, on 29 July 2016 - 07:39 AM, said:

Which is why I am against creating extremely biased maps in the first place.

theres definately no advantage for any spawn on this map

[Void Angel]

He's not talking about spawn advantage - he thinks the Polar Highlands is too friendly toward long-range fights and LRMs.

Meanwhile, in the real world, Polar rewards teamwork, tactical mobility, and aggression - as opposed to maps like Canyon Network, which can be used aggressively, but are very friendly to your typical, pants-wetting camper who thinks sharing armor is for the little people. =)

Snarky comments about CN, aside, the Polar Highlands is a hellish deathtrap for people who insist on playing it improperly. Since camping at long ranges and trading works well on other maps, they assume that all they need to do here is what they do on Canyon, Tourmaline, and just about everywhere else: move to contact with the enemy, find cover, and trade until one side or the other is weakened enough that it's safe to move forward and chase down the stragglers. There may be some maneuver (particularly for better players/teams,) but you're going to spend lengthy stretches holding down choke points and trying to catch the enemy on his weak side so you can roll him up. Again, this works on so many maps that it's all many players seem to know how to do.

Polar Highlands confuses the daylights out of those people. They look for the cover and see shallow trenches and a few isolated clusters of buildings - most of the map is deceptively open, rolling terrain. This leads them to assume that Polar Highlands is a "sniper map," and they bring long guns and LRMs with the intent of fighting a long-range war with the enemy. If one side has a lot of LRMs (which tends to happen, because map votes and the Thomas Theorem,) it can be a bad day for everyone - especially if you're one of the hordes who don't use terrain well and refuse to vaccinate your damn Battlemechs.

But really, Polar Highlands doesn't have to go down like that. That rolling terrain, as I hinted, is deceptively open - everywhere you want to go has a covered and concealed route to get to it. Those rolling hills may provide easy cover from one direction, once the enemy works around that cover, it's just an empty hillside devoid of cover. So you can close on the LRM monkeys, and flank the SniperWarriors, and play the map as it was meant to be played; it's just not obvious (if not foreign) to most players who see the map. It also - and this is important - requires teamwork in order to get things done. Those covered and concealed routes aren't worth crap against LRMs if your team lets Light spotters crawl all over the landscape; if only three people flank the enemy's long-range dakka patrol, they're just going to back off of the hill and focus on the flankers (at which point the rest of the team could move in, but will they? Hah. hahah. No;) if half of the team tries to play the map right, and the other half insists on camping, you're crippled, too - just like every other map.

So the reasons players hate Polar Highlands is that:

• It rewards a play style of aggressive maneuver that is - largely due to past map designs - unfamiliar to them.
  
• It requires Lights to do their jobs instead of hiding behind the bigger 'mechs or sniping silently from long range.
  
• The counter play options for long-range combat are inobvious and easy to screw up using.

So, to improve Polar Highlands, you don't really need to scrap the map or revamp it - you just need more obvious cues to show people how they should play. Most of the issues can be solved by deepening the low routes between the rolling hills, and adding/deepening some ravines and draws in order to provide workable cover when there's a spotter you can't chase down. Doing that would improve an already good map - and would drastically improve the lives of the legions of players who just can't seem to learn how to use it.

Edited by Void Angel, 29 July 2016 - 07:19 PM.

[pyrocomp]

John McHobo, on 29 July 2016 - 06:33 AM, said:

The main problem with the map is the HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE bias towards LRMs.
Since team composition in Pug-matches is random you end up with one team having 400tons of Lurmboats and snipers and one team with the same amount of tonnage in brawlers...and the game is over before it ever began.
This map needs a way to move underneath it, like a tunnel network.
This would take a dedicated brwaler off the map for some time, making him immune to Lurms while being unabled to attack himself until he emerges. If the tunnel exits are far off each other, snipers and long ranged mechs would still have an advantage while having to watch their backs.

May I ask for a dedicated elevated 400 m high platforms to make long range mechs immune to brawlers in return? No? Why? Is this a BrawlerWarrior Online or I missed rebranding at some point?
So no, no special conditions for ultraspecified builds.

[CptnHero]

Why the **** is this map so often to choose? Excuse my language, but i played this map 4 times in the last 5 matches. What the **** is wrong with this map generating thing? If you want to keep people away from mwo, just make it optional for every match.

[pyrocomp]

CptnHero, on 30 July 2016 - 12:21 PM, said:

Why the **** is this map so often to choose? Excuse my language, but i played this map 4 times in the last 5 matches. What the **** is wrong with this map generating thing? If you want to keep people away from mwo, just make it optional for every match.

You haven't played 7 strait HPGs yet (total 10 out of 12 one evening), have you? This is a random numbers game (the map selection minigame), it has to exibit streaks or it is not pure random or is manipulated. So, kalm down and be aware that this happens rarely.

[CptnHero]

Sure, but before the last patch i never experienced this problem. And, like in your case, its just boring, isn´t it? I don´t say that i don´t want to play that map, but i´d like to have some variety.

[Jables McBarty]

Map is great.

Only suggestion would be to move some spawn/objective points to put other parts of the map in play. As it stands, most battles take place in the central open area.

[SirDubba]

It's a difficult map without coordination. At first I liked it, then I hated it, now I only hate it when I can't find myself a good position or when we as a group (pugging) end up in the same open area where I tasted bitter loss the last five times.
So I got nothing against the map itself. Varying spawn points might be awesome.

But there is something I'd like to ask. Can we have new cold maps that are something else than white, please?

[Nomex 99]

Remove Polar, worst map ever. Lurmageddon every match. No fun at all.

[Alstren]

By far the worst map in the game. It activly punishes non sniper or lrm boat play styles.