204 replies to this topic

[Mad Dog Morgan]

Add more vertical cover throughout the map. Buildings, rocks, anything. It’s too open and shoehorns people into one playstyle.

Edited by Mad Dog Morgan, 08 August 2018 - 06:14 AM.

[Void Angel]

I agree. It's not that it's too open, really - the map has lots of cover and concealment if you use the rolling terrain to your advantage - what the map needs is better cover for LRMs, possibly by deepening the trenches or by increasing the height and/or prevalence of other high-cover objects.

[Gloris]

Lurmboats too dumb to aim normal weapons voting polar is killing every tiny remaining bit of joy i have in this game.

Change the map, or remove it, this crap is not fun, this crap is costing you players.

[Damnedtroll]

Call a full charge and charge them while maintaining locks if you have nowhere to protect yourself... , drop UAV and do most damage possible while drawing fire to permit your team to mob them.

Camping under cover never the choice that bring victory anyway. They will just encircle you and **** you. Lots of cover already in polar you just need to move and not camp.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

when one Team stand in LRM spam than
...she ignored Cover
..ignored the Radar Depr.Skill tree
...UAVs on the Sky and scouts in the Back
...playing uncoordinated or pushing to early
...to many Dump assault Kids
...to many own LRM boats thats not search own Targets

[Gloris]

Old MW4 Ranger, on 15 October 2018 - 07:04 AM, said:

when one Team stand in LRM spam than
...she ignored Cover
[...]

Polar Highlands Feedback

Cover
What cover?

[MW Waldorf Statler]

Gloris, on 15 October 2018 - 10:01 AM, said:

Polar Highlands Feedback

Cover
What cover?

All the trenches and lower terrain parts between the icefields ...bad when in the sow big assault thats not can move fast enough in it or by bad placements ...its not the map ...its the the players and the less experience and tactical awarness thats the problem of most players ...thats will plays MWO like a FPS with constant action and rush rush rush

Edited by Old MW4 Ranger, 15 October 2018 - 08:15 PM.

[Andor-13]

Old MW4 Ranger, on 15 October 2018 - 08:14 PM, said:

All the trenches and lower terrain parts between the icefields ...bad when in the sow big assault thats not can move fast enough in it or by bad placements ...its not the map ...its the the players and the less experience and tactical awarness thats the problem of most players ...thats will plays MWO like a FPS with constant action and rush rush rush

All it takes is one light to spot you or a uav and those trenches don't mean s**t

[MW Waldorf Statler]

Thats the sense of spotters and lights like uavs ...when teams and players thats ignored is not a problem from the map or bad design...its a stupid playstyle and ignoring of important tactical parts ...lights in wide open maps have to hunt from mediums and lights in the own team ...its the cavalry part...when im going with a knife to a shootout its my fault.if I can not adapt my playing style to the map it is my failure ... a map does not have to match my personal playing style but vice versa ... if I appear with a lrm boat on solaris city it is my fault

Edited by Old MW4 Ranger, 16 October 2018 - 10:45 PM.

[Andor-13]

Old MW4 Ranger, on 16 October 2018 - 10:36 PM, said:

Thats the sense of spotters and lights like uavs ...when teams and players thats ignored is not a problem from the map or bad design...its a stupid playstyle and ignoring of important tactical parts ...lights in wide open maps have to hunt from mediums and lights in the own team ...its the cavalry part...when im going with a knife to a shootout its my fault.if I can not adapt my playing style to the map it is my failure ... a map does not have to match my personal playing style but vice versa ... if I appear with a lrm boat on solaris city it is my fault

Any decent scout mech will avoid pursuit while still keeping eyes on their opponents, and will also have more than one uav at their disposal.

How is it your fault when you pick the mech you want to pilot before you even know what maps are up for vote?

[MW Waldorf Statler]

Its my fault when im only playing with white special elephants ...im only use generalistic mechs thats im can use in all maps and situations ...nothing only brawl or longrange builds ...and assaults only for events when its a part of the event .mobility and movement ..minimap and good POV ..watching for scouts and uavs and the tactical situation ...a weaponless cored enemy for me uninteresting when a teammate is in trouble or a more dangerous mech is near me...teamplay and what is good for a win is important not own wishes and favorited playstyles...to special and egomanic thinking is ineffective .
When im not can seeing what for a map comes im must use builds thats im can good use in each map thats come ...its easy ...when im not can life with this better im play singleplayergames.
it is not the map but my ability to adapt to any situation and map or to be able to think flexibly to deal with situations ... the world is not about me..when im going by a bad weather day out house and only hopes thats nots raining and without a umbrella, im can not whining when im come home wetness.

Edited by Old MW4 Ranger, 18 October 2018 - 02:03 AM.

[Gloris]

The map is garbage, no ammount of weird ramblings about not building meta mechs and putting lots of "..." between each sentence will change that.

On this map when you get Narced you are dead 100%.
When a light decides to screw you over rushes you and does nothing but keep you locked for his Lurmfriends you are dead.

Does not matter that you made a totally cool builds for every situation by putting Lurms on your Atlas. You are still dead because there is no counterplay on this map.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

Gloris, on 19 October 2018 - 10:44 AM, said:

The map is garbage, no ammount of weird ramblings about not building meta mechs and putting lots of "..." between each sentence will change that.

On this map when you get Narced you are dead 100%.
When a light decides to screw you over rushes you and does nothing but keep you locked for his Lurmfriends you are dead.

Does not matter that you made a totally cool builds for every situation by putting Lurms on your Atlas. You are still dead because there is no counterplay on this map.

Why win than the other Team or you opponent ? .im have very Good Efforts with my 3 Large Laser Builds or AC5/10 Builds when im have a good Team with Players thats have Playexperience, and not Rambo players thats run with his brawl Assaults in open field while they only seeing own Kills or bling against spotter and UAVs Flanking and Movement to new positions is important for that Map and im most Plays Heavys or rare fast assaults like warhawk or Medium like Bushwacker.Map is like the old MW rolling Hill Maps who im learned the Fight with Teams and Tactics...maps like Winter War or Exford (and the last have nothing Cover or Trenches by mW4)

Edited by Old MW4 Ranger, 21 October 2018 - 10:15 PM.

[Void Angel]

Old MW4 Ranger, on 15 October 2018 - 07:04 AM, said:

when one Team stand in LRM spam than
...she ignored Cover
..ignored the Radar Depr.Skill tree
...UAVs on the Sky and scouts in the Back
...playing uncoordinated or pushing to early
...to many Dump assault Kids
...to many own LRM boats thats not search own Targets

I would say that you are mostly correct here - but the one legitimate complaint about the map is that there isn't adequate cover for people trying to avoid LRM boats. It only takes one scout 'mech on the other team to completely ruin your day if they have a lot of LRM boats; if you have your own LRMs, it's still an even contest (and the non-lrm 'mechs can play conservatively until the LRM boats get a bit more attritted.) But, if the enemy team has LRM superiority and even one 'mech that can scout, it can be a really, really long day. Consider that any non-ECM 'mech that goes spotter hunting is going to quickly become the only target most of the enemy LRM boats can see...

It's certainly true that a lot of people's hatred of this map comes from an attitude of learned helplessness exacerbated by what's popularly (though somewhat inaccurately) known as the Dunning-Kruger effect. You can and should keep in motion on this map, so as to achieve close-range enfilade on your enemies' positions and shove those LRMs down their screaming throats. But, there are cases where the random selection of teammates in Polar Highlands will result in games that simply cannot be won, despite there being no disparity in player skill between the teams. Those cases also happen more often than we might expect, due to the ability of LRM boaters to self-select for the map, and the general bias of many players against playing the map without LRMs or lower-dps sniping loadouts.

All that being said, however... Based on my own experiences on the map, many of the times players believe they've been given an unwinnable match, it's their own learned helplessness and fear of LRMs causing them to misunderstand the situation - and when they've listened to me, I've often been able to prove it to them. =)

Edited by Void Angel, 22 October 2018 - 05:52 PM.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

im hate what im not understand , and not will learn to understand

[Void Angel]

Sometimes people do act that way - but it's important to remember that sometimes the right thing to do in a game is counter-intuitive.

[General Solo]

Void Angel, on 22 October 2018 - 05:51 PM, said:

It only takes one scout 'mech on the other team to completely ruin your day if they have a lot of LRM boats

Correct, if you fail to kill or suppress the spotter.
That's not the maps fault.

I love this map because people willfully refuse to learn how to play it guid.
Reminds me of clubbing seals in FW, except solo vs solo rather than solo vs premade.
People make it eazy for me to own them on this map because they refuse to learn it.


Random ramblingz in Engwish

[Void Angel]

It is true that a lot of people just throw their hands up in the air and say, "this is broken, I hate this map!" But if we really do want to learn the map, we have to acknowledge its weakness regarding LRMs. The point I'm making here is that when one team has a lot more LRMs than the other, that LRM-heavy team has a huge advantage if they also have just one good spotter (particularly a Light with ECM.)

This happens because the LRM boats are going to want to stay out of sight, and rely on that spotter - and to kill or suppress that scout, you need ECM pursuit forces. If you don't have ECM, that scout is going to start spotting you for those LRM boats when you come to kill him, and it's very hard to take him out unless you have ECM to block his target locks. Essentially, that spotter has the advantage: if he's a Light, he can outrun larger 'mechs, while dropping UAVs and spotting any Light pursuers for the LRM boats. If he's a Medium, he can take a lot more of a pounding while still outrunning many Mediums - and he can fight off a lot of lights with counter-fire from his LRM battery. In most cases where you have this kind of mismatch, there's not much the non-spotting team can do.

This all comes back to the only real weakness of the map: the lack of tall cover to effectively block LRMs. Team composition mismatches aren't as much of a problem on maps like Viridian Bog or Tourmaline Desert, because there's always something you can do based on what you have. But because there isn't an adequate terrain counter for LRM spotters, this specific team matchup (and only this matchup,) where one team has scouting superiority and significant LRMs, is devastating because there's not a lot of counterplay available. And remember: while teams are assembled randomly, the prevalence of LRM boats in the Polar Highlands is not random - because map voting. So what would normally be an edge case becomes much, much more common, especially if you have a Light pilot who likes missile spotting and loads out for it...

With all that being said, most of the times I've seen players think they're screwed because of team comp, the match is winnable. But when the people who don't understand the map (and refuse to bring AMS, and want to stand and camp like they do in every other map since ever) ALSO end up on the receiving end of this mismatch, it reinforces all the bad behaviors that make them lose when they're not in an unfair position.

That's why I think it's important to acknowledge that there is a situation where the map does screw you - because if you understand all the pieces of how that specific scenario works, you can also understand how to fight an LRM team when they don't have you in a barrel.

Edited by Void Angel, 21 November 2018 - 09:35 AM.

[General Solo]

Shoot the spotter in the face and they don't spot so good.
Don't need ecm for that.
Most spotters are light mechs which can't take alot of shots to the face.

Lerms are of limited advantage against teams that can trade and aim well with direct fire on this map. IMO

The effectiveness of Lerms depends on the skill of your target. I don't think that's the maps fault.

Besides Polar adds much needed map variety, theirs lots of brawl maps, why not some sniper/lerm friendly maps too.

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 21 November 2018 - 10:10 PM.

[Void Angel]

I like Polar's map variety; I've been making that very point earlier in this thread. =)

But a good spotter is hard to shoot in the face; I know, I'm a good spotter. And we need to remember that part and parcel of LRM balance is the ability to hide from the missiles; the issue isn't that the map is too range-centric, because you can maneuver close enough to hammer your long-range foes if you use the terrain properly. But if some spotter with 7 LRM teammates pops up while you're doing that, you'd better hope your team brought ECM or a lot of AMS. Otherwise, you're about to have a Bad Day, and there's nothing you can do about it. And you're most vulnerable to spotters on Polar Highlands when you're moving, because it's harder to look in all directions as a team in order to suppress spotters.

That last bit is the important part. Polar Highland's lack of effective LRM shelter means that there are situations where you can get hammered without any opportunity to fight back - but without making a mistake. In fact, you can be punished for not making a mistake; for moving to gain an advantage in position like you should do.

I do not think this makes Polar Highlands a bad map. The strengths of the map outweigh this weakness overall, and most of the time players think they're just "screwed by the matchmaker" because the enemy team has LRMs, the real problem is (as old-school .50 gunners would say) an "operator headspace and timing" issue. But the fact that the map really does sometimes punish you for following the map's own design is a valid criticism.