Your Take On Macros
#61
Posted 09 June 2016 - 01:02 PM
For example, the following that I use gives me so much more of an advantage than any macro software could ever give me:
- Having a good gaming PC that can run this game on average between 100-120 fps.
- Having a 144hz monitor w/ lightboost strobed at 120hz to eliminate motion blur.
- Using a DPI clutch in mouse software to instantly drop sensitivity on-the-fly in order to keep lasers on target for the full duration, yet maintain the ability to twist and shield quickly after shooting.
- Using a USB headset that allows me to completely separate game audio from VOIP/teamspeak audio, allowing for clearer calls.
#62
Posted 09 June 2016 - 01:07 PM
Aresye, on 09 June 2016 - 01:02 PM, said:
For example, the following that I use gives me so much more of an advantage than any macro software could ever give me:
- Having a good gaming PC that can run this game on average between 100-120 fps.
- Having a 144hz monitor w/ lightboost strobed at 120hz to eliminate motion blur.
- Using a DPI clutch in mouse software to instantly drop sensitivity on-the-fly in order to keep lasers on target for the full duration, yet maintain the ability to twist and shield quickly after shooting.
- Using a USB headset that allows me to completely separate game audio from VOIP/teamspeak audio, allowing for clearer calls.
Yeah, macros here don't do much, but there are some games out there that the amount of macros and advantages they provide are pretty ridiculous in my opinion. Like I said earlier they don't really bother me in general, but I do find it to be rather sad how dependent some people are on them.
#63
Posted 09 June 2016 - 01:08 PM
Aresye, on 09 June 2016 - 01:02 PM, said:
For example, the following that I use gives me so much more of an advantage than any macro software could ever give me:
- Having a good gaming PC that can run this game on average between 100-120 fps.
- Having a 144hz monitor w/ lightboost strobed at 120hz to eliminate motion blur.
- Using a DPI clutch in mouse software to instantly drop sensitivity on-the-fly in order to keep lasers on target for the full duration, yet maintain the ability to twist and shield quickly after shooting.
- Using a USB headset that allows me to completely separate game audio from VOIP/teamspeak audio, allowing for clearer calls.
Please add to that ASUS' "Sonic Radar II" and "GamePlus".
#64
Posted 09 June 2016 - 01:12 PM
Fut, on 09 June 2016 - 12:27 PM, said:
Just seems like there's a lot of conflicting info on Macro use, and I can't help but think that some of it is purposefully deceitful. I mean, we have a bunch of Tier 1 players claiming that LRMs are garbage, but as soon as a Macro conversation comes up they run straight to the "Tag should have been on a toggle to begin with. I just use Macros for that" defense. Why are people running Tag with a Macro-Toggle if nobody in the upper Tiers use LRMs?
There ARE people in higher-end play who use LRM's. They ARE garbage. So your question here is deliberately misleading. Still, a toggle for TAG is not giving you an advantage, it's just removing the PITA of holding a button down all the time.
Otherwise, you start getting into the territory of "Oh, he's got 5 buttons on his mouse and I only have two, he's a cheater!" and other such absurdly stupid stuff.
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As macros are explicitly, deliberately allowed by PGI, if they gave a significant (or even moderate) advantage, they'd be used a LOT because you'd need to in order to compete. Competitive play requires maximizing all the advantages that you can. So why don't you see macros used there?
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This is a game. A game. PGI sets the rules. There's no ambiguity here, macros are explicitly allowed. You might as well be arguing firing Medium Lasers and Large Pulse Lasers together is as bad, because it allows you to circumvent Ghost Heat. Understand: The design for Ghost Heat was to prevent alpha strikes over 30 damage with comparable weapons. It's allowed, as PGI chose to put ML's and LPL's in different Ghost Heat Weapon Groups, but it breaks the stated purpose of Ghost Heat. We're allowed to do it, so that's that.
Games have rules. Play within those rules is allowed, outside the rules is not. This isn't a case of exploits (where you're doing unintended things that rules don't explicitly cover because the developers didn't forsee it). They were from day one aware of macros and allowed them.
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In case anybody is keeping score, I honestly don't care if people use Macros or not, it just irritates me to see so many people kidding themselves...
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I wouldn't agree, but I'd go along with it, because PGI makes the rules for their game. PGI makes all kinds of decisions I don't agree with all the time (...ghost heat...) but I go along with that too.
#65
Posted 09 June 2016 - 01:18 PM
Fut, on 09 June 2016 - 01:02 PM, said:
Thanks, I appreciate the concise response.
Seems like some people do feel like it's an 'unjust law' though, hence all the threads.
He's not. But they don't get it, because they don't really understand how macros work. It's been my experience here, over 4 years, that every single player who gets their panties in a bunch about macros will cite all sorts of ridiculous things that are either entirely impossible (having a guass rifle always ready to fire), or actually disadvantageous (stagger firing AC2's) as reasons why macros are bad.
Again, the proof is in the pudding:
1) Macro's are explicitly allowed in the rules.
2) Competitive play always involves maximizing every advantage.
3) If macros provided an advantage, they'd be being used extensively in competitive play.
They aren't.
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I just have a hard time staying out of these conversations because there are so many faulty arguments on both sides and I get a real kick out of a good debate. Although, I suppose I can also assume that the "faulty arguments" are stemming from the fact that it's the same conversations over and over again, and people are just tired of getting into the nitty gritty every time.
It's annoying. Very annoying.
4 years of this ignorance.
They've been shown, inarguably, to offer no advantage. They are explicitly allowed.
We're tired of ignorant people getting worked up about something they don't understand. It gets really old.
#66
Posted 09 June 2016 - 01:21 PM
#67
Posted 09 June 2016 - 01:22 PM
Aresye, on 09 June 2016 - 01:02 PM, said:
For example, the following that I use gives me so much more of an advantage than any macro software could ever give me:
- Having a good gaming PC that can run this game on average between 100-120 fps.
- Having a 144hz monitor w/ lightboost strobed at 120hz to eliminate motion blur.
- Using a DPI clutch in mouse software to instantly drop sensitivity on-the-fly in order to keep lasers on target for the full duration, yet maintain the ability to twist and shield quickly after shooting.
- Using a USB headset that allows me to completely separate game audio from VOIP/teamspeak audio, allowing for clearer calls.
I have USB foot pedals. They let me toggle arm lock, fire additional weapon groups, and other such functions without using valuable finger-input-capacity. I AM TEH LEET HAXXORS!
The horror!
#68
Posted 09 June 2016 - 01:26 PM
Triordinant, on 09 June 2016 - 01:21 PM, said:
I dislike using "crutch" in these arguments, because it tends to be looked at in the light of "Oh, you're using a Timberwolf? That's a crutch, real players pilot Vindicators".
Except in this particular case, "Crutch" is very appropriate.
This is because while macros can allow you to work a particular mechanic "close to the bone" - such one that fires your PPC's when you fire your gauss after charging - it also makes other usage harder. For example, you can't compensate for the differing projectile speeds. This means a straight shot with no leading is easy to have Gauss+PPC on one mouse button, but then that's an active disadvantage as soon as your target is moving (even if just twisting).
Crutches make walking easy. Until you need to climb stairs, or carry stuff.
That's why I don't use them myself.
Not because of lack of ability (I do lots of AutoHotKey scripting, and really enjoy it), nor because of some misguided "ethics" rationale, but because there's no way I've found to use macros that actually grants an advantage without getting in the way somewhere else.
#69
Posted 09 June 2016 - 01:26 PM
Wintersdark, on 09 June 2016 - 01:12 PM, said:
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El Bandito, on 03 March 2016 - 08:47 PM, said:
Like I said, conflicting info.
You can't really blame people for being confused as to their advantages when you read one thread that says "nobody uses them they suck" then read another where somebody claims "a huge difference in performance".
Anyhow, thanks for the honest responses, Wintersdark.
I think I have a fairly good grasp of both sides of the discussion at this point, including the irritation people are feeling from years of circular conversations. I'll try to stay out of this one for awhile.
#70
Posted 09 June 2016 - 01:28 PM
Macros being allowed does offer some people a huge advantage.
Disabled people.
Not everyone can work lots of inputs and keybinds. Without macros, disabled people in many cases would be unable to play at all. Macros allow combining functions, and interfacing with custom controllers.
#71
Posted 09 June 2016 - 01:29 PM
Fut, on 09 June 2016 - 12:27 PM, said:
Just seems like there's a lot of conflicting info on Macro use, and I can't help but think that some of it is purposefully deceitful. I mean, we have a bunch of Tier 1 players claiming that LRMs are garbage, but as soon as a Macro conversation comes up they run straight to the "Tag should have been on a toggle to begin with. I just use Macros for that" defense. Why are people running Tag with a Macro-Toggle if nobody in the upper Tiers use LRMs?
TAG also helps reduce the lock time of SSRM's as well.
#72
Posted 09 June 2016 - 01:30 PM
Fut, on 09 June 2016 - 01:26 PM, said:
Like I said, conflicting info.
You can't really blame people for being confused as to their advantages when you read one thread that says "nobody uses them they suck" then read another where somebody claims "a huge difference in performance".
Anyhow, thanks for the honest responses, Wintersdark.
I think I have a fairly good grasp of both sides of the discussion at this point, including the irritation people are feeling from years of circular conversations. I'll try to stay out of this one for awhile.
It's not "nobody uses them they suck". It's, overall, they offer very little advantage, can be done manually (to varying degrees, some people have better timing than others, so they CAN allow you to compensate for poor timing ability), but as I said.
Comp play sees practically no macros used. As such, they are NOT offering a significant advantage. If they were, then everyone would be using them, not the odd guy here and there.
#74
Posted 09 June 2016 - 01:32 PM
Wintersdark, on 09 June 2016 - 01:28 PM, said:
Macros being allowed does offer some people a huge advantage.
Disabled people.
Not everyone can work lots of inputs and keybinds. Without macros, disabled people in many cases would be unable to play at all. Macros allow combining functions, and interfacing with custom controllers.
This as well....
But i DO think PGI should allow EVERYONE (as in a GAME MECHANIC) to TOGGLE FIRE GROUPS of weapons and not just eh weapons in the groups. The only way to achieve that right now is by using MACROS.
This should just be part of the mechlab and weapon groups options IMO.
#75
Posted 09 June 2016 - 01:35 PM
Revis Volek, on 09 June 2016 - 01:32 PM, said:
This as well....
But i DO think PGI should allow EVERYONE (as in a GAME MECHANIC) to TOGGLE FIRE GROUPS of weapons and not just eh weapons in the groups. The only way to achieve that right now is by using MACROS.
This should just be part of the mechlab and weapon groups options IMO.
#76
Posted 09 June 2016 - 01:43 PM
I mean, funny as hell to read what people think is illegal and what is not without even reading what is or is not.
So, ILLEGAL;
Using a Bot application to carry out gameplay actions without user participation.
Engaging in the use of hacks, scripts, or cheats.
Discussing the use of hacks, scripts, or cheats.
Misrepresenting your use of hacks, scripts, or cheats.
Accusing other players of using hacks, scripts, or cheats.
LEGAL;
Keybind macro software and hardware mechanisms are permitted for use as long as such mechanisms still require manual input to initiate and do not fully automate gameplay.
So, the difference is user input on legality.
Go READ;
http://mwomercs.com/conduct
#77
Posted 09 June 2016 - 01:46 PM
Ultimax, on 09 June 2016 - 12:51 PM, said:
We don't need to fix stupid, we just need to add enough direct opposition to it that the people in the middle who haven't formed an opinion have another voice to listen to.
Yeah, talking to the gallery is most of the reason I bang my head on walls here, too. But, to be blunt, anybody who searched for five seconds could find multiple copies of this conversation with all positions explained in agonizing detail.
Ironically, that apparently doesn't include the OP of this thread since there is literally another macro thread (and man are they all the same) still on the front page of general discussion.
Edited by TercieI, 09 June 2016 - 01:46 PM.
#78
Posted 09 June 2016 - 02:14 PM
TWIAFU, on 09 June 2016 - 01:43 PM, said:
Keybind macro software and hardware mechanisms are permitted for use as long as such mechanisms still require manual input to initiate and do not fully automate gameplay.
So, the difference is user input on legality.
Go READ;
http://mwomercs.com/conduct
I always found that description funny. So long as I hit a button to aim for me while I pilot the mech I am safe? Essentially, you can't make bots, and so long as the cheat has a button on your keyboard that you must press to toggle it on or off you are good to go.
#79
Posted 09 June 2016 - 03:52 PM
WarHippy, on 09 June 2016 - 02:14 PM, said:
If you could somehow design a function that does this without injecting code and/or modifying game files, then yes, you could technically do it and be 100% in the clear according to the CoC.
Of course, this really isn't possible due to the fact you can't create something to automate aim without pulling information from the game itself. At some point you're either modifying game files or injecting code, both of which are against CoC.
#80
Posted 09 June 2016 - 04:35 PM
Wintersdark, on 09 June 2016 - 01:22 PM, said:
The horror!
Using your foot to fire weapons is cheating! PGI ban Wintersdark nao!!!
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