376 replies to this topic

[Andi Nagasia]

What we Know About Power-Draw and How it will Work!
1) it will be based on Damage & Alphas,

Twitter said:

Russ Bullock ‏@russ_bullock 23h23 hours ago
aka the replacement for Heat Scale which should work much better for limiting alphas -this should give more value to mechs with more variety

Twitter said:

Gas Guzzler ‏@GasGuzzler60 Aug 8
@VoodooLou1 @russ_bullock essentially, if you aren't a light or medium and you wan't to be competitive, you will boat ACs or go with PPFLD

Russ Bullock ‏@russ_bullock Aug 8
@GasGuzzler60 @VoodooLou1 no not really as energy draw is largely about dmg so AC's similar to energy

2) the Starting Alpha Limit will be 30,

Twitter said:

Russ Bullock ‏@russ_bullock 12h12 hours ago
@GasGuzzler60 well atm that would just be a guess - start at 30 and play test

3) you will get a Heat Spike once a Limit is reached/Passed,

Twitter said:

Russ Bullock ‏@russ_bullock 22h22 hours ago
@zpleat no its still heat based system ultimately just one you cant step around like heat scale

4) it will effect all weapons Systems Energy / Missile and Ballistic(as Alpha),

Twitter said:

Russ Bullock ‏@russ_bullock 23h23 hours ago
aka the replacement for Heat Scale which should work much better for limiting alphas -this should give more value to mechs with more variety

5) Weapons that have Spread(LBX) can be counted as Less(75%) to Alpha,

Twitter said:

AndrewPappas ‏@AndiNagasia 5h5 hours ago
@russ_bullock will the system take into account weapons that are inherently inaccurate? Such as it counting only half damage for LBX & LRMs?

Russ Bullock ‏@russ_bullock
@AndiNagasia easily possible yes

Twitter said:

Gas Guzzler ‏@GasGuzzler60 Aug 3
@russ_bullock very concerned about this system if it is implemented based on damage output alone

Russ Bullock ‏@russ_bullock Aug 3
@GasGuzzler60 yes not just dmg alone

6) it will Come with the Complete Removal of the Ghost Heat System,

Twitter said:

Russ Bullock ‏@russ_bullock 23h23 hours ago
aka the replacement for Heat Scale which should work much better for limiting alphas -this should give more value to mechs with more variety

7) it will most likely have a PTS Session before Release,

Twitter said:

AngrySpartan ‏@omechwarrior 3h3 hours ago
@russ_bullock Thanks for the hard work! Finally boating may be pushed by bracketing fire! Are you planning to put it on PTS first?

Russ Bullock ‏@russ_bullock
@omechwarrior Yes I am sure we will

What we can Assume but Dont Fully Know,
1) when the Alpha Limit is Reached Mechs will Gain Much more Heat as its Drawing more than it can Handle,
2) the Penalty Heat Generated from exceeding the Limit will be exponential,
3) it will be a Bar that will Fill as you Fire, and Deplete as you Dont,


With this in Mind lets Assume Penalty Heat is something like this,

if (Alpha > 30)
.......(Z x (Z-2) {f(x) = 2^x}Heat)
(Z = (Alpha - 30)

so for each Point of Damage over 30, you start getting an increased amount of heat,
at 31-35 damage this may be negatable, but as you hit 45Damage you will get hit with massive heat,


with all this in Mind,
lets use a low heat weapon for a test,

Test(1)
5MPL fired, 30damage in 0-0.5sec, no penalty heat(20Heat Total)

Test(2)
6MPL fired, 36damage in 0-0.5sec, +6(30ish%) penalty heat(30Heat Total)

Test(3)
7MPL fired, 42damage in 0-0.5sec, +33(120ish%) penalty heat(61Heat Total)


so lets assume the Lowest Damage to Heat Weapon in MWO,
3Gauss fired, 45damagein 0-0.5sec, +6(195ish%) penalty heat(9Heat Total)

this makes Tri Gauss a Problem as you will gain abit of Heat,
not much to Stop it as a Sniper, but Enough to Stop it from using Backup weapons,

=Assumption Examples=
its sounding like Most weapons will have Different Draws not a Full Damage to Damage,
-
its Likely MGs and Flamers will have a Draw of 0 because how those weapons work already,
an AC5 does 5 Damage, but may have a Draw of 7 to Balance the weapons and Lesson Boating,
an IS-LPL does 10 Damage, but may have a Draw of 10 so you can Fire 3 at a time much as it is now,
an SRM6 does 12 Damage, but may have a Draw of 10 so you can Fire 3 at a time,
an SRM6 does 8 Damage, but may have a Draw of 7 so you can Fire 4 at a time,
LBX20/LRM20s do 20 Damage, but may have a Draw of 15, so you can fire 2,


the PTS for this System may be Soon,

Twitter said:

AndrewPappas ‏@AndiNagasia 9h9 hours ago
@russ_bullock getting asked to ask again, many would like to know, is there any new updates on (PTS3InfoWarfare) or (HeatScale2(PowerDraw)?

Russ Bullock ‏@russ_bullock 4h4 hours ago
@AndiNagasia PTS for energy draw fairly soon

Russ Bullock ‏@russ_bullock 3h3 hours ago
But we will not do so until we are quite confident in it's readiness. Stay tuned.

Russ Bullock ‏@russ_bullock 7h7 hours ago
Energy Draw is currently being working on and adjusted and we still plan to have a fully public test sometime in the next few weeks.

Possible PTS for this Week

Twitter said:

Russ Bullock ‏@russ_bullock 42m42 minutes ago

Looking quite likely for a PTS this week for Energy Draw. Hope to put official word on the forums by mid week if all goes well.

Edit- Twitter Quotes Added
Edit2- Draw Assumption Examples
Edit3- When we may see the PTS

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 15 August 2016 - 07:56 PM.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Hmm, so Ghost Heat 2.0. Hilarious actually.

Wonder if they will implement GH 2.0 Quirks for some mechs.

Anything Clan: -5 dmg to trigger Ghost Heat 2.0
IS: +5 dmg to trigger GH 2.0.

Banshee: +10 dmg to trigger GH 2.0.

something like that.

Edited by LordKnightFandragon, 14 June 2016 - 08:27 AM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

I have been hoping for a long time to fire 3 PPCs again without a penalty... would like to get that 30 damage confirmed +although it is exactly what I expected).

[Wintersdark]

LordKnightFandragon, on 14 June 2016 - 08:26 AM, said:

Hmm, so Ghost Heat 2.0. Hilarious actually.

Which is what was expected, no?

Quote

Wonder if they will implement GH 2.0 Quirks for some mechs.

Anything Clan: -5 dmg to trigger Ghost Heat 2.0
IS: +5 dmg to trigger GH 2.0.

Banshee: +10 dmg to trigger GH 2.0.

something like that.

Errr, why?

Clan weapons typically feature higher damage (well, the lasers) and as such less will be usable. The nature of the system, using alpha damage, means it's inherently balanced independent of tech.



Using half spread damage is interesting. That would mean 5xSRM6 would put you at the cap (60 damage = count 30). That doesn't sound like a certain thing though.

[SpiralFace]

Prosperity Park, on 14 June 2016 - 08:41 AM, said:

I have been hoping for a long time to fire 3 PPCs again without a penalty... would like to get that 30 damage confirmed +although it is exactly what I expected).

How's this:

@russ_bullock/status/742606128538783745

While everything in the OP seems a bit far fetched, it looks like 30 is where they are going to be beginning testing. So triple PPC's seems very likely to be a-ok from what has been said so far.

Edited by SpiralFace, 14 June 2016 - 09:16 AM.

[cazidin]

I imagine Ghost Heat II to work similarly to MASC. You have X power. Weapons use Y power.

[CK16]

How about limiting alpha size to Engine size or mech tonnage/class.

Aka light mechs can't alpha huge numbers often

Assaults could more reliable do a larger alpha...

[GreyNovember]

Where was it said that spread weapons count as less alpha?

[Andi Nagasia]

CK16, on 14 June 2016 - 10:13 AM, said:

How about limiting alpha size to Engine size or mech tonnage/class.

Aka light mechs can't alpha huge numbers often

Assaults could more reliable do a larger alpha...

dont agree this will just push the Bigger is better engine Problem,
but thats a another topic all together,

GreyNovember, on 14 June 2016 - 10:18 AM, said:

Where was it said that spread weapons count as less alpha?

Twitter said:

AndrewPappas ‏@AndiNagasia 5h5 hours ago
@russ_bullock will the system take into account weapons that are inherently inaccurate? Such as it counting only half damage for LBX & LRMs?

Russ Bullock ‏@russ_bullock
@AndiNagasia easily possible yes

[Andi Nagasia]

SpiralFace, on 14 June 2016 - 09:15 AM, said:

How's this:
@russ_bullock/status/742606128538783745

While everything in the OP seems a bit far fetched, it looks like 30 is where they are going to be beginning testing. So triple PPC's seems very likely to be a-ok from what has been said so far.

Linked Twitter Statements, nothing in the First List is Far Fetched, the Second List is what i Assume will happen,

[LordKnightFandragon]

SpiralFace, on 14 June 2016 - 09:15 AM, said:

How's this:

@russ_bullock/status/742606128538783745

While everything in the OP seems a bit far fetched, it looks like 30 is where they are going to be beginning testing. So triple PPC's seems very likely to be a-ok from what has been said so far.

So instead of 60 per shot, its 30, wait 0.5s, 30. I am guessing the more we think into it, the less "problem solving" its ultimately going to be, and more, new look, same great taste...

[Bud Crue]

Key phrases from reprinted tweets in OP:
should work
should give more value
would just be a guess
possible

This isn't a new mechanic as much as it sounds like a vague notion.

On the other hand, the certainty being expressed regarding a PTS is a shocking, though welcome, revelation.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Sigh... I was afraid this might be the case...

I was hopeful PGI finally read my balance manifesto and so refrained from posting this years edition on the forums. If they continue on their current path I'll... honestly? I really don't think they care what I do. So... after they screw this up I'll release the entire thing and the how PGI could be making more money accessory.

A quick synopsis of what I envisioned is far simpler and easy for new players to catch on to.

I wanted an engine power available gauge, and have energy weapons use some up to fire, some for masc and JJ, and of course power drain during gauss recharge. If you try to fire weapons when you don't have sufficent power available they'll chain fire automatically.

Ballistics shouldn't affected by a power draw system... at all... as bullets contain their own god damn propellant. The generate heat obviously but god damnit they shouldn't affect a power draw mechanic.

[Screech]

Seems like a short sighted fix as it is only governed by damage. Would like to know how this won't just be a buff to energy based weapons.

[kapusta11]

Andi Nagasia, on 14 June 2016 - 08:23 AM, said:

...well atm that would just be a guess - start at 30 and play test...

...it will reset like Ghost Heat at 1/2 a Second,

[Lorian Sunrider]

I don't think spread weapons should get halved values towards the 30 cap. Otherwise SRM mechs can now fire 7 (6.97 something really) SRM 4's with no heat penalty. Oxides/Jenner IIC's/Streakcrows/Huntsmen (premature maybe) don't need to get any stronger on the SRM front.

I kinda like the idea of it being tied to engine size or even chassis size. Lights get cap of 20, Mediums get cap of 25, Heavies 30, Assaults 35-40 sorta thing.

Needs to be longer than a half second. Hell, bump it up to 2 seconds.

Narcissistic Martyr, on 14 June 2016 - 12:17 PM, said:

Sigh... I was afraid this might be the case...

I was hopeful PGI finally read my balance manifesto and so refrained from posting this years edition on the forums. If they continue on their current path I'll... honestly? I really don't think they care what I do. So... after they screw this up I'll release the entire thing and the how PGI could be making more money accessory.

A quick synopsis of what I envisioned is far simpler and easy for new players to catch on to.

I wanted an engine power available gauge, and have energy weapons use some up to fire, some for masc and JJ, and of course power drain during gauss recharge. If you try to fire weapons when you don't have sufficent power available they'll chain fire automatically.

Ballistics shouldn't affected by a power draw system... at all... as bullets contain their own god damn propellant. The generate heat obviously but god damnit they shouldn't affect a power draw mechanic.

I think that is what many of us were hoping for, but that is far, far more difficult to program in than what is being suggested.

As for the bolded, by that same logic, so do the missiles.

Edited by Lorian Sunrider, 14 June 2016 - 12:38 PM.

[GreyNovember]

Lorian Sunrider, on 14 June 2016 - 12:34 PM, said:

I think that is what many of us were hoping for, but that is far, far more difficult to program in than what is being suggested.

As for the bolded, by that same logic, so do the missiles.

> Missile Power Draw Value = 0
> Ballistic Power Draw Value = 0
> If Weapon Type == Type.Gauss > Weapon Draw Value = X
> Energy Power Draw Value = X

Did I miss something?

[Lorian Sunrider]

GreyNovember, on 14 June 2016 - 12:41 PM, said:

> Missile Power Draw Value = 0
> Ballistic Power Draw Value = 0
> If Weapon Type == Type.Gauss > Weapon Draw Value = X
> Energy Power Draw Value = X

Did I miss something?

Do we know that as fact so far though?

[Kangarad]

wait, does this mean that MG's will also generate heat ? do I have to stop firing em for a second if I hit soemone with a dual gauss shot unless I want to take heat? And if so how much heat would that be since mg's have a realy high firerate but low damage.
And does critical damage count?

[Felicitatem Parco]

I think you're only gonna get Power Heat from your MGs for about half a second... considering how cool they are, should not have a noticeable effect.