376 replies to this topic

[Mole]

I really don't like this. I don't like this at all. I don't think this change is going to be good for the game. I really hope they put up a PTS of this like Russ says he probably would instead of just implimenting it without collecting opinions first. I have a feeling this won't pass a PTS run. If everyone likes it on the PTS then cool, they did something right and I was wrong. But I think this is just gonna be bad.

Edited by Mole, 14 June 2016 - 06:13 PM.

[Cy Mitchell]

I think I will just wait and see.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Steve Pryde, on 14 June 2016 - 02:12 PM, said:

Sounds for me like more big weapons, less smaller weapons (like medium laser boating for example).

Hm...

Btw what's with clan er-ppcs? So no 3 clan er-ppcs like IS because of the useless splash-dmg it does?

Pretty much under this system the CERPPC will be even more outclassed. And Clans have the higher damage? 2 CERPPC=30 heat, while 3 IS PPcs=30 heat, but the Clan one does 20 PP while the IS does 30.....odd how the tables have now flipped in favor of the IS.

[Mazzyplz]

LordKnightFandragon, on 14 June 2016 - 06:23 PM, said:

Pretty much under this system the CERPPC will be even more outclassed. And Clans have the higher damage? 2 CERPPC=30 heat, while 3 IS PPcs=30 heat, but the Clan one does 20 PP while the IS does 30.....odd how the tables have now flipped in favor of the IS.

russ has mentioned spreading weapons would contribute less to power draw than pinpoint weaps.
so what you just said is all imaginary

Mole, on 14 June 2016 - 06:11 PM, said:

I think this is just gonna be bad.

okay. make sure you never mention why, or use any logic to support the gut feeling you have there

[EgoSlayer]

Mazzyplz, on 14 June 2016 - 06:45 PM, said:

russ has mentioned spreading weapons would contribute less to power draw than pinpoint weaps.
so what you just said is all imaginary

He said it's possible, which means it isn't there in what they are testing now but it could be added.

[ScarecrowES]

Mazzyplz, on 14 June 2016 - 06:45 PM, said:

russ has mentioned spreading weapons would contribute less to power draw than pinpoint weaps.
so what you just said is all imaginary

In fairness, Russ didn't say this was how it was going to work either. Just that it was a consideration.

Pretty much everything about the power draw system other than they're tenatively calling it the "power draw" system, that it concerns itself over damage dealt, and that it looks at all weapons fired, is... imaginary. Other than those 3 things, it's all speculation.

[Mole]

Mazzyplz, on 14 June 2016 - 06:45 PM, said:

okay. make sure you never mention why, or use any logic to support the gut feeling you have there

Why would I try to apply logic to something that is exactly what you said it is: a gut feeling? Besides. I'm not looking to argue the point. Just stating that this new system is setting off alarm bells in my belly about yet another botched and pea-brained game mechanic that will ultimately break 'mechs that didn't need breaking and not really do much to hurt the 'mechs that need dialing back. That's how all of Paul's balancing ideas have ended up in the past, so why would I feel like this is going to be any less of a debacle?

[ArchSight]

There isn't much logic in this thread anyway. It's mostly freaking out about change that could happen when we don't know exactly what it is yet. There isn't any point to this thread right now except if individuals don't want any changes done to the game at all.

Just calm down and wait for when PGI tells us all what exactly this new system is. It's confirmed to be on PTS so we can see if it's good for MWO before it comes out. There's plenty of time to freak out about changes then or agree with the new change to MWO's mech balance.

[Gas Guzzler]

Steve Pryde, on 14 June 2016 - 02:12 PM, said:

Sounds for me like more big weapons, less smaller weapons (like medium laser boating for example).

Hm...

Btw what's with clan er-ppcs? So no 3 clan er-ppcs like IS because of the useless splash-dmg it does?

Yeah. Instead of MLs, just a 4th LPL.

[Andi Nagasia]

Mole, on 14 June 2016 - 02:02 PM, said:

I'm calling it right now and saying that Ghost Heat 2.0 is gonna suck even more than Ghost Heat 1.0.

Why is it ganna Suck? because you cant Work around it like Ghost Heat 1.0?

GreyNovember, on 14 June 2016 - 03:59 PM, said:

I didn't realize the 270m effective range with a heavy ballistic and spread rockets was so difficult to counter.

Just think or JR7-0 SCRs hell even the KTO with a 330 Engine(97kph) can get 5SRM6s,

cazidin, on 14 June 2016 - 04:32 PM, said:

...What mech can effectively field AC60? AC 20s are both heavy AND bulky.

Right now Nothing, but if Ballistics have No Draw Every Assault will be 4AC10 or 3AC20,

Ultimax, on 14 June 2016 - 05:28 PM, said:

Great write up.


Look at those numbers, think about how frequently MPLs are actually used right now - and can anyone honestly that it makes any sense at all?

Yes, clearly, using a 220m limited range weapon that quickly hits a heat wall should see you limited to only using 5 of them fo "balance".

From what Russ has Talked About you cant work around this like you can Ghost heat,
in Ghost Heat i can Run 6ML and 3LL with no Ghost heat, or 6C-ML and 2C-LPL, with no Ghost Heat,
this system is based on Alpha damage so theirs no way to Cheat the System and do more damage,

Gas Guzzler, on 14 June 2016 - 05:35 PM, said:

Oh you don't want to encourage ballistic boating?

Say NO to Power Draw.

How would Power Draw Encourage Ballistic Boating?
Russ has Already Stated it will Calculate All Alpha Damage,
Meaning Laser Ballistics and Missiles will Generate Draw,

ScarecrowES, on 14 June 2016 - 05:57 PM, said:

We might actually see lasers used more often if ghost heat 2.0 makes it so you can't throw out more than 15 SRM tubes at a time. Sounds like a pretty significant nerf to SRMs to me.

Oh... and might as well rename MechWarrior Online to MacroWarrior Online. If all it takes to get around ghost heat 2.0 is to only fire 30 damage at a time with a 0.5-second gap between volleys, expect macro usage to go up. If anything, this actually seems MUCH easier to get around than basic Ghost Heat is. At least with the current ghost heat setup, you actually have to consider what kinds of weapons you want to fire, how many you can salvo before GH kicks in, which weapon will determine your penalty, etc. I figure it'd be a lot easier to control salvos when you can fire any weapon you want in a group as long as it doesn't exceed X amount of damage.

And as for limiting laser vomit? I don't see that happening. This doesn't seem to do much to curb a 12-laser Nova. Much less any other vomit build. The GH limit for lasers is also the reasonable limit for simultaneous laser fire if you hope to remain cool enough to keep in the fight. Not many people would spam more than 6MLs even if GH didn't penalize them for doing so.

if you need a Macro to Fire your weapons Exactly 0.5 seconds later, you have a Problem,
also 0.5 seconds is enough for a Person to Twist to avoid your next hit, so it will spread damage,
also if PGI makes it a Bar that Fills, and Depletes Macro'ing wont help(not that id Help Ether way)

Gas Guzzler, on 14 June 2016 - 08:23 PM, said:

Yeah. Instead of MLs, just a 4th LPL.

4 LPLs may generate a good deal of Ghost Heat,
but i guess thats where the Balance is, cant wait to try it out on the PTS,

[Andi Nagasia]

LordKnightFandragon, on 14 June 2016 - 06:23 PM, said:

Pretty much under this system the CERPPC will be even more outclassed. And Clans have the higher damage? 2 CERPPC=30 heat, while 3 IS PPcs=30 heat, but the Clan one does 20 PP while the IS does 30.....odd how the tables have now flipped in favor of the IS.

Mazzyplz, on 14 June 2016 - 06:45 PM, said:

russ has mentioned spreading weapons would contribute less to power draw than pinpoint weaps.
so what you just said is all imaginary

Russ Has Said on Twitter(looking for Tweet)
that with the New System its Possible C-ER-PPCs may be allowed back to 15PP,
(he called it the New System because the Name Power Draw didnt Exist yet)

[ImperialKnight]

if they're going to remove the restriction on all weapons with this new system, triple Gauss will become a thing again. extra heat on something that produces next to no heat is nothing. bring back the BOOMPHRACT!

#neverforget

[Night Thastus]

How did you get "spread weapons are counted as 75% damage"

Where does the 75% come from? And what weapons are included aside from LB-X? SRMs? LRMs? C-ERPPCs? Clan ACs? What?

[Gas Guzzler]

Andi Nagasia, on 14 June 2016 - 09:16 PM, said:

stuff directed at me

Um, it will encourage ballistic boating because ballistics don't use large alpha strikes, they do damage by sustained fire (and are already competitive choices).

About the 4 LPLs, you misunderstand. Instead of alphaing 3 LPL and 4-5 MLs, you will just fire 2-2 LPLs. But that probably won't stand up to other options post-GhostHeat 2.0

[Colonel ONeill]

Andi Nagasia, on 14 June 2016 - 08:23 AM, said:

so lets assume the Lowest Damage to Heat Weapon in MWO,
3Gauss fired, 45damagein 0-0.5sec, +6(195ish%) penalty heat(9Heat Total)

this makes Tri Gauss a Problem as you will gain abit of Heat,
not much to Stop it as a Sniper, but Enough to Stop it from using Backup weapons,

It is actually the highest dmg to heat weapon^^
As you can not alpha 3 Gauss and I dont think they gonna change that its unlikely it will affect this.

[Tank]

I actually like to see this idea moving forward and finding way of improving gameplay.

This will severely limit laser vomit builds, boating ballistics is also not an option with 30 dmg cap, so hurray for possible diversity.

By the way boating ballistics have immense drawbacks compare to lasers:

• limited ammunition
  
• chance of explosion (if not cased)
  
• chance of loosing ammunition
  
• extremely bulky and have large mass
  
• have a projectile speed (oh.. people hate those!)
  
• change of jamming with UACs

I rarely see anyone using ballistics, gauss sometimes and the new clan Care Bear and that's about it. Mostly lasers and sometimes SRMs - but last guys need get close up and personal.

So yeah, I say this change will be for good.

[GreyNovember]

Andi Nagasia, on 14 June 2016 - 09:16 PM, said:

Just think or JR7-0 SCRs hell even the KTO with a 330 Engine(97kph) can get 5SRM6s,

A full SRM Medium sounds like it's making a legitimately fair tradeoff. It becomes a close range surprise butt fun mech, and can't do diddly squat beyond that range.

The Oxide isn't really a question of Alpha, but repeatable, sustainable alphas in a prolonged engagement.

[Mazzyplz]

if it popularizes dakka builds then fine. nobody was complaining about dakka. you can twist to spread the damage from DPS builds.

however this will hit the pinpoint or laser alpha builds. i think you will still be able to shoot 30-40 but not more. or the penalty will be severe. at least i hope that's how it works

[ScarecrowES]

People have already found ways around the power draw system as Andi is describing it. You're going to be able to game it just as easily as you can GH 1.0.

And the hilarious thing is... all this is based on concerns over alpha damage. But then we talk about the evils of lasers, which is actually spread damage, not fld. So now, under the new system, instead of being killed in the duration od a single laser, you're killed in less than 2 with a 0.5 second interval added. Your TTK didnt exactly go up, even with lasers. Most people don't alpha with lasers much over 30 damage anyway because the massive heat involved won't allow it, even without ghost heat.

It's just so incredibly silly... as if this will somehow fundementally change the game.

[kapusta11]

Tank, on 15 June 2016 - 02:58 AM, said:

...boating ballistics is also not an option with 30 dmg cap, so hurray for possible diversity.