126 replies to this topic

[D V Devnull]

Okay, even after reading this thread, I didn't mind the re-scale on the Catapult. At least, not until I found my Camo Scheme had been messed with by PGI. Now the Basic Camo Scheme has been replaced by "Fisher Price" crap, and my layout had a dependancy on what it was before.

GIVE ME MY OLD CAMO LAYOUT BACK ON THE CATAPULTS, PGI!!!

~D. V. "Don't humiliate one of my better Mechs, PGI!" Devnull

[Tarl Cabot]

A blast from the past, what people were thinking when mechs were introduced 2.5 years ago. I was looking for something and thought these would be fun to post...

Posted 12 October 2013 - 09:27 AM

http://mwomercs.com/...ts/page__st__20

Quote

There are size comparisons for all mechs:

Thunderbolt
Locust
Shadow Hawk
Battlemaster

- Locust seems fine
- Battlemaster seems fine
- Thunderbold is wider but less tall than a centurion, I like it, it looks very compact and brutal that way
- Shadow Hawk is taller than a Centurion
- Shadow Hawk is taller than a Cataphract! WTF?

The Shadow HAwk is WAY to big imho!
Edited by Bromineberry, 12 October 2013 - 09:25 AM.

[Wintersdark]

Old MW4 Ranger, on 26 June 2016 - 04:27 AM, said:

Bigger Targets =slower Movement by same Speed= less Cover=sinking TTk move MWO more to Mechassault as mechwarrior

Did you play mechassault? Mech Assault is faster, not slower.

And being a bit larger doesn't make you move slower.

Mechs are supposed to be big. They're mechs, not power armour.

[Kali Rinpoche]

The Rifleman needs serious IS quirks added. Its a paper tiger. Catapult has silly amounts of IS quirks compared to the RFL.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

Wintersdark, on 26 June 2016 - 04:31 PM, said:

Did you play mechassault? Mech Assault is faster, not slower.

And being a bit larger doesn't make you move slower.

Mechs are supposed to be big. They're mechs, not power armour.

Hi Winterdark

Yes MA is faster , and is a Kidding Game with nothing Simulating Aspect ,Im not playing the very arcadish Mechassault (or buy the Moneymachine X-Box) in real , has a Larger Machine , larger Legs = a wider step = lower Steps for the same Way,as a Smaller Machine with the same speed

I`m playing since 30 Years only with PC, and play the TT, Mechcommander 1-2 an Mechwarrior 2-4, MWLL Mod for Crysis …in the BT lore , the Mechs big , not giant …the Rifleman is ~ 11,5 m ,the Shadow Hawk ~9, 6m, the Thunderbolt ~8,5m (with no Launcher) ,Elementar 3m, Protomechs ~5-6m, Warhammer 12,4m (With Launcher)the Atlas ~16m (tallest IS Mech), the Banshee ~15,5m (A House with 2 Level give full COVER9)before the rescaling ,the most mechs to tall, make the Catapult smaller is a good Way, the most lights before have a good size .most of the the Mediums, Heavys , Assaults before to tall

Problem for example with this Method ,a User Idea for the Volume/Pixel method (edit:its the PGI Method????)...not only part is a Object with 6 sides , by many Mechs , you have Pixels from toes in der Airview, or half or pieces of the hands/Arms in the Sideview, other have nothing ...the only correct way for Volume ist use the Overall Texture in Boxview (like Papermodels from mechs)or Real models and measure with waterdisplacment

Edited by Old MW4 Ranger, 27 June 2016 - 07:53 PM.

[TheLuc]

Thanks MW4 RANGER, all PGI had to do is to have boxes for every weight , 20, 25,30 and so on to fit the Mechs in there and that's it. Instead here they go for the over complicated thing and screw up... again

sticking to lore would have saved many screw ups, but well, they like to screw up.

If really they wanted to go real they would have taken a real life example ( lets say a M1 Abrams main battle Tank for the US army which is 62 metric tons ) then Mechs would have been quite smaller.

What ever players say, someone at the top just does as he please not giving a crap, as long as those tournament support pack and Mech pack sells.

once the real BT is out, im gone from here. Im really fed up of that 5 years beta

Edited by TheLuc, 27 June 2016 - 10:19 AM.

[Ultimax]

Wintersdark, on 26 June 2016 - 03:05 AM, said:

Why? Mechs are big. They're supposed to be big. The vast majority of the rescaling had absolutely no measurable impact on game play.

Maybe not in mid to low tier gameplay.

For anyone that plays against skilled players? Yeah, this is an enormous change.

[Wintersdark]

Ultimax, on 27 June 2016 - 12:26 PM, said:

Maybe not in mid to low tier gameplay.

For anyone that plays against skilled players? Yeah, this is an enormous change.

*The vast majority.

Yes, the bigger changes had a significant change. But the Griffin getting 1% bigger? No, it didn't change anything at all.

Obviously the overall impact is enormous, because a few mechs changed a lot, and any major change (even in few mechs) really upsets things at the competitive level, mostly because many of the mechs that changed significantly are also ones that are (where) used at that level.

But still my point was that overall, few mechs (of the whole pool, not only those used in competitive play) actually changed in any significant manner.

After all, how many Clan mechs changed? There's lots of Clan mechs in the game. Dire Wolves and Warhawks changed, but I doubt there's lots of either being fielded in normal comp play and neither appears to be particularly different in normal gameplay(admittedly, I haven't used nor seen any warhawks about). The Nova changed a very substantially, and it's impact is much more noticable. But overall? That's just three of all the Clams, and only one that mattered. One significant change has a large impact, but it's still only one significant change.

Edited by Wintersdark, 27 June 2016 - 12:40 PM.

[Ultimax]

Wintersdark, on 27 June 2016 - 12:34 PM, said:

But still my point was that overall, few mechs (of the whole pool, not those used in competitive play) actually changed in any significant manner.

You mean aside from many light mechs and weaker low tonned mediums, that were already some of the lowest value adds on any team?

Phoenix Hawk, Black Jack, Enforcer?
Grasshopper, Black Knight, Marauder, Zeus?


Plenty of mechs have been impacted negatively, I'm really not sure why you're working so hard to minimize this issue.

[D V Devnull]

Ultimax, on 27 June 2016 - 12:50 PM, said:

Plenty of mechs have been impacted negatively, I'm really not sure why you're working so hard to minimize this issue.

Heck, add the Catapult to THAT list. Although, if PGI hadn't messed with the Non-Pattern Basic Camo on it, and kept it the same after the resize, I wouldn't be mad at all right now. They really didn't need to change that Basic Camo.

~D. V. "Wishing PGI would stop trying to 'fix' things that aren't broken..." Devnull

[PraetorGix]

Wintersdark, on 27 June 2016 - 12:34 PM, said:

*The vast majority.

Yes, the bigger changes had a significant change. But the Griffin getting 1% bigger? No, it didn't change anything at all.

Obviously the overall impact is enormous, because a few mechs changed a lot, and any major change (even in few mechs) really upsets things at the competitive level, mostly because many of the mechs that changed significantly are also ones that are (where) used at that level.

But still my point was that overall, few mechs (of the whole pool, not only those used in competitive play) actually changed in any significant manner.

After all, how many Clan mechs changed? There's lots of Clan mechs in the game. Dire Wolves and Warhawks changed, but I doubt there's lots of either being fielded in normal comp play and neither appears to be particularly different in normal gameplay(admittedly, I haven't used nor seen any warhawks about). The Nova changed a very substantially, and it's impact is much more noticable. But overall? That's just three of all the Clams, and only one that mattered. One significant change has a large impact, but it's still only one significant change.

So what if a low percentage of the mechs changed much? You said it yourself, the overall impact is really big.
There are plenty of mechs that are plainly worse than before, starting with every light that got touched up except the Locust and the Kit Fox.
The impact to the game has been greater than some people realize, 2/3 of a weight class is weaker now.
Maybe the change is not immediately obvious, and it is not a gigantic decrease in usefulness for those mechs, but they are worse than before, and every one of those little individual changes make a very big general impact, high tier or not.

[Wintersdark]

Ultimax, on 27 June 2016 - 12:50 PM, said:

You mean aside from many light mechs and weaker low tonned mediums, that were already some of the lowest value adds on any team?

Phoenix Hawk, Black Jack, Enforcer?
Grasshopper, Black Knight, Marauder, Zeus?

Phoenix Hawk wasn't "impacted" by the rescale, it was never another size and there's no reason to think it would have been another size.

And what's funny? Those heavies listed? All amongst the stronger mechs in the strongest weight class. Funny how they all got hit. I'm so surprised.

Quote

Plenty of mechs have been impacted negatively, I'm really not sure why you're working so hard to minimize this issue.

I'm not. I don't even care. It's done; those mechs where all going to take the nerf bat by quirks soon anyways (don't kid yourself, you know how PGI works, they'd all be negatively impacted by the next balance pass - not saying that's what I think should have been done, just that's what was obviously going to happen.)

But in the overall scheme of things, the vast majority of mechs where either totally unchanged or affected so minorly that it doesn't matter. Yes, the changes had a big impact on the comp scene. Of course they did. Every quirk pass has a big impact on the comp scene, basically any change has a big impact on the comp scene. When your pushing for the very best mechs and builds, any small change has a big impact. There will ALWAYS be changes that impact the comp scene.

Those heavies? Who cares. Heavies are too strong vs other weight classes to start with, and the Zeus was too small compared to the others. Yes, yes, make the others smaller, whatever - always buff, never nerf, I get it. But that isn't what happened, and either way the end result works out, if not ideally or particularly well.

The lights got screwed. No doubt. As I said, I agree they should have gone smaller overall (not much though) rather than screwing the lights. I suspect they let it go with the lights because of all the Oxide/J2C tears.

But still, overall, make a list: mechs that where significantly impacted and those that weren't. Most mechs weren't. Many that where benefitted. Probably half that took it on the chin where top end mechs anyways. By PGI standards, I guess that's not bad.

But, have it your way. It doesn't matter anymore, it's done. Just use different mechs, make new strategies, just like you'd do with a requirking pass (which is still coming and going to change more stuff) or any other balance change.


It just seems people are really mostly upset that the strongest mechs got hit the hardest, and jump on the "won't somebody think of the lights!" bandwagon to not sound so whiny.

Anyways, whatever. Like I said, I'm not pushing some agenda here. I just don't care that much anymore, it's just another day in MWO land and this is no worse than any one of the various quirk passes. It's not worth getting all riled up over.

I wish they did it differently. I wish they'd do a lot of things differently. Whatever.

I guess I'm mostly just surprised that people who've been here this long can still be surprised and angry about this sort of thing. Like balance passes (what this ended up being, for the worse) are new and different in any game.

Edited by Wintersdark, 27 June 2016 - 03:46 PM.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

PGI has a Plan for scaling ????



next Stop 30 m point ....

before the Rescale the Shadowhawk (right) very very taller as Lore ( middle Lore 9,6m) more by 17m ...

Edited by Old MW4 Ranger, 28 June 2016 - 11:00 AM.

[D V Devnull]

Old MW4 Ranger, on 28 June 2016 - 09:12 AM, said:

PGI has a Plan for scaling ????

<<<image from http://i68.tinypic.com/16923wi.jpg>>>

next Stop 30 m point ....

before the Rescale the Shadowhawk (right) very very taller as Lore ( middle Lore 9,6m) more by 17m ...

<<<image from http://i.imgur.com/40DJeND.jpg>>>

Yeah, I don't think PGI has a proper plan for re-scale. Otherwise they wouldn't have screwed up the Catapult's Non-Pattern Basic Camo.

~D. V. "I can tell you, it is a letdown." Devnull

[Lily from animove]

Wintersdark, on 24 June 2016 - 02:30 AM, said:

It's nowhere near the same size, don't be daft. It's not even close.

But here: this has flaws, but it's a pixel-count comparison Navid just did: http://mwomercs.com/...es-and-numbers/

But just turn that catapult sideways, and turn that wolfhound sideways.

The wolfhound isn't even close to the same size.

Note how Navid's data shows the wolfhound is... Oh. Roughly half the size of the catapult.

Marvel at how bad you are at estimating volume.

yes many people willingly exaggerate or are REALLY bad in visual comparisons. I hope they don't have the same issues when aiming. on the other hand, it would explain a lot

Edited by Lily from animove, 28 June 2016 - 01:21 PM.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

Quote

Note how Navid's data shows the wolfhound is... Oh. Roughly half the size of the catapult.

2 D silhouette illustration with many overlap areas as Base with no information is crap

thats above a 3D Model ?!




...with Lights tall like Lore Heavys , and Heavys giant like the Atlas with 18m aiming is better for Rookies

Battletech is not only big Stompy Robots game (for Guys willing equal sized balanced Robots -better going to HAWKEN), is a Game for Combined Warfare ,with many Weaponssytsems, from the Soldier with Laserrifle and KSR Launcher ,to Tanks,Jetfighters, Hovercrafts, Ships, Spacecrafts.

Make the Mechs bigger=the Weaponsystem bigger J the Mechs not alone in BT Universe and have a second Part of the Battlefield, Tanks, Aerospacefighters, Helicopters used the same Weaponssystems …Tanks a Dangerous Counterparts to the Mechs, …What? This tiny Yellow Jacket Helicoper carry a Gauss? That tiny Toycannon on the Mini-Tank is a AC10??? And dangerous for my 20m Atlas?this little Soldier carrying a KSR Launcher?

Before Rescale MWO Hunchback against Loresized Mechs and tank

Edited by Old MW4 Ranger, 30 June 2016 - 02:26 AM.

[Colonel Clunge]

Chados, on 17 June 2016 - 04:45 PM, said:

The Rifleman is going to need durability quirks. It's YUGE for its weight now.

And the Marauder got nerfed too.

I notice that all the Clan heavies got shrunk. Nice.

Do you think it has anything to do with the fact that Clan mechs are more expensive to buy........hmmmmm. Whenever IS starts to get competitive it seems we get nerfed to keep the Clan Boys happy.....

Still good to see that my Black knights are now bigger than a Dire Wolf.....

Back in the T-Bolt then

[SlightlyMobileTurret]

IS was not getting competitive, two months back, they were ramming the clans into the ground without effort. That's not competitive. That's far, far more.

[DieGruneMorder]

YOU MADE THE GRASSHOPPER BIGGER???!!!! What in the actual f%ck???!!!! Why??!!! I thought maybe smaller, as its a HEAVY and is just as tall as an ATLAS!! This is ridiculous!! Ive seen some dumb things on here (and this is one of my favorite games mind you) but this is the worst. Thanks for Nerfing my Hopper to death even further guys. Hover Jets and Atlas sized "Heavies".....CHEERS!

[SlightlyMobileTurret]

They don't really do bad, even being bigger.

You have to remember that both the GHR and BLK-KNT still have extremely thin torsi.