63 replies to this topic

[Scout Derek]

Really come on seriously? I know who is doing this earlier too, expect a p.m. from you very soon poster who was trolling earlier.

[Alienized]

Procurator Derek, on 21 June 2016 - 10:40 AM, said:

Really come on seriously? I know who is doing this earlier too, expect a p.m. from you very soon poster who was trolling earlier.

i will edit my posts from earlier myself. sorry bout the parts from me but im not the guy leaving such things unanswered..

[TooDumbToQuit]

Here is a true troll post...............

I looked through my 5 Clan chassis and found that one, the Kit Fox has some quirks.

AMS range +10

AMS rate of Fire +5

WOW! I thus ***** about this again......

[Alienized]

LikeUntoGod, on 21 June 2016 - 11:15 AM, said:

Here is a true troll post...............

I looked through my 5 Clan chassis and found that one, the Kit Fox has some quirks.

AMS range +10

AMS rate of Fire +5

WOW! I thus ***** about this again......

because the kit fox can use 3 ams and thats effective against the volley of lrm's the IS can pull out.
clearly a good quirk on it.
other than that, change the pods.

oh and this

edit: i know its a troll post but some WILL still rant without trolling about such things. therefor i rather clear this up =)

Edited by Alienized, 21 June 2016 - 11:20 AM.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

What in the name of God is all this?

Summoner gets PPC quirks with one of its arm omnipods. One or more of the WHK omnipods gets PPC quirks as well. Oh, and the targeting computers, Mk I through Mk VII, add increasing (5% per level, so 5-35% overall) projectile velocity, which affects PPCs as well as ballistic weapons. And since everything (even their FerroFibrous armor) is lighter and/or smaller on a Clan mech, there should be room for a TComp on any build you want to run PPCs with.

But no, MOST Clan mechs do not have inherent PPC-centric quirks.

Now, CAN WE ALL PLEASE call the matter settled? KTHXBAI

[Chryckan]

Actually I've made a BJ with 2 ERPCCs, firing them singly. Suddenly, PPCs work makes sense for me.
Sure, I can't hit the side of the barn but I can know see that's because I'm a terrible shot and when I get low scores it is because I've missed.

The hit registration when firing dual PPC at once really messed things up for me apparently, since I couldn't understand when I hit or missed because of it.
Firing them singly I don't have that problem.

[Metus regem]

Chryckan, on 21 June 2016 - 01:55 PM, said:

Actually I've made a BJ with 2 ERPCCs, firing them singly. Suddenly, PPCs work makes sense for me.
Sure, I can't hit the side of the barn but I can know see that's because I'm a terrible shot and when I get low scores it is because I've missed.

The hit registration when firing dual PPC at once really messed things up for me apparently, since I couldn't understand when I hit or missed because of it.
Firing them singly I don't have that problem.

Welcome to the club of PPC users, once you get the knack for them they are actually really good.

[Sadistic Savior]

Ruslan Savelyev, on 21 June 2016 - 01:55 AM, said:

I've tried all sorts of builds and for what it is worth, I can't get any PPC/ERPPC build to outperform a LL/LPL/ERLL build. Lasers in general are just so easy to hit with and do basically the same damage.

It is one thing to like the weapon, which I want to 'cuz TT nostalgia, but I probably will do 30-50% more damage with a laser build. Add in the fact that velocity quirks differ, and you have to estimate different lead distances depending on the chassis.

If you are a good shot, I'd say you will do far better and have more fun with a Gauss or AC than a PPC.

I used to think similar, but Lasers are never going to have the stopping power of PPCs. Laser damage is almost never in one point (even if you're a great shot), and gets splashed around. Lasers are only an advantage if you have crappy aim. Lasers also telegraph you position worse than anything else in the game (except maybe LRMs, and thats debatable, because LRMs are not luminous).

Lasers are luminous and persistent...so when you fire them it is like a giant arrow pointing to your position. This is a problem if you're sniping. PPCs are much harder to backtrack than lasers (It's a source of irritation for me...I get sniped by PPC armed lights all the time).

As for Gauss and ACs, 2 problems; (1) They rely on ammo, so they eventually run out. And (2) they rely on ammo...which can explode (or the weapon can explode...in the case of Gauss). PPCs do not have either weakness. Gauss also has that annoying delay between shots. Oh yeah...PPCs can also disrupt ECM, which neither Gauss nor ACs can do. ACs and Gauss are also heavy and can eat up a lot of space. PPCs are more space/weight efficient for the same damage.

For my own playstyle, lasers work better. And are more fun IMO. But PPCs definitely have their advantages. Skilled PPC pilots are dangerous.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

And so far, dual-ERPPC on the PXH-1B has been fun. I have a reason to git gud at peeps! I'm not exactly knocking anyone's socks off with the PXH so far, but yeah, it works.

[Metus regem]

Sadistic Savior, on 21 June 2016 - 04:34 PM, said:

For my own playstyle, lasers work better. And are more fun IMO. But PPCs definitely have their advantages. Skilled PPC pilots are dangerous.

Yes, yes we are.

[MadCat02]

ER-PPC and Gauss should be the only decent long range weapons . Instead Clan Large pulse Laser does similar job and does not require skill to use . Also it is not depended on Targeting Comp and is good vs small mechs .

I mean at 600 meters I will hit you with LPL 3 times for every Er-PPc shoot you fire cuz its not easy when moving mech is going over uneven terrain . Some maps are a little more PPC friendly than other .

2X ER-PPC is best on medium mechs that can pop in and out over cover . You have to have some kind of velocity boost either from IS bonuses or Targeting Comp .

I think ER-PPC is in a good spot , its a bit gimmicky but any buff would return us to sad ER-PPC wars . LPL needs some kind of adjustment . Easy to use , high damage weapon that has perfect optimal range for most situations .

Edited by MadCat02, 21 June 2016 - 08:39 PM.

[SlightlyMobileTurret]

Alienized, on 21 June 2016 - 08:34 AM, said:

you do know the difference between IS double heat sinks and clan double heatsinks, dont you?
also there is still the advantage of NOT DYING when a side torso gets boomed in a XL mech and you definetly need a XL engine to use ER PPC's on IS side.

its not all about quirks. its about all the things coming together, all you look at are bloody numbers.
yes, 50% velocity quirks ARE alot but if you put them on standard PPC's its still not really fast and you cant deny that standard PPC'S need such a heavy buff to be even remotely useful. do the math of it.
the amount of 50% velocity quirks is also not very high.

as i noted, no one uses IS ER PPC's on mechs with 50% velocity quirks because LPL are far better in everything, especially heat.

clan er ppc's been faster than IS er ppc's before.

fact is, warhawk works far better on pure PPC's than anything the IS has, even with all the quirks on the mechs.

Fact is, even with 19 DHS (vs 27), far cooler PPCs (25% probs 30% now, didn't check patch notes and 10 heat, so each PPC is only about 7 heat), superb velocity, same heat capacity, and not THAT bad difference in range (648 with module, regular peeps), the AWS-8Q is undeniably superior to the warhawk.

Edited by Keshav Murali, 22 June 2016 - 04:34 AM.

[Alienized]

Keshav Murali, on 22 June 2016 - 04:33 AM, said:

Fact is, even with 19 DHS (vs 27), far cooler PPCs (25% probs 30% now, didn't check patch notes and 10 heat, so each PPC is only about 7 heat), superb velocity, same heat capacity, and not THAT bad difference in range (648 with module, regular peeps), the AWS-8Q is undeniably superior to the warhawk.

except the fact that the warhawk has splash damage, weapons in the arms, no min range (especially important against lights/fast meds), far higher max (not optimal) range where it is still effective enough, higher speed and a far smaller chassis.

people do yourself a favor.... stop looking at the weapons and quirks only.
a awesome is so damn easy to kill that i would almost count it as trollpost.

[SlightlyMobileTurret]

True, tis a troll post, I have no idea what I'm talking about.

Perhaps this is how I look only at quirks and weapons only, with over a million freaking XP on my 3 awesomes together, and 720,000 on my 8Q.

Awesome is easy to kill? I challenge you to a duel against my 8R in an assault mech of your choice 80-90 tons, we will see how easy it is to kill. Awesome is easy to strip, impossible to kill quick. It gets even better with the new hitboxes.






Let me make it clear:

Advantages of Awesome:
1) cooler PPCs
2) Far better velocity
3) Much higher, and tighter mounts
4) Takes a long time to heat up to the heat warning

Advantages of Warhawk:
1) No minimum range
2) Better range

99% of the time, I'd prefer my 8Q over my WHK-PRIME.

I think I know what the duck I'm talking about.

Edited by Keshav Murali, 22 June 2016 - 08:36 AM.

[Morggo]

(... I just really like how they look and sound, so use them ...)

I'll go back to the corner and bounce a ball now.

[Leone]

Alienized, on 22 June 2016 - 07:20 AM, said:

people do yourself a favor.... stop looking at the weapons and quirks only.

Fair 'nouf, I give you the Troll Sidhe, a banshee built to make me try an play normal queue like a pug that does far better for me'n it should. I have had the distinction of being last mech standing with that beast before. Mind the heat though.

Such a blast to play.

~Leone

Edited by Leone, 22 June 2016 - 10:09 AM.

[Alienized]

higher mounts? l3l
not so much.
i know how easy it is to kill awesomes, thanks.
been doing that since... forever.
typically, ya know, i just facehug them.

or leg them. they never skipped leg day. yumyum legs.
and what is it with all this *oh i got this much XP on my awesomes! i know what im talkin bout!*
that says literally nothing at all or should i now consider myself a Quickdraw god, having 2 mil XP on my quickdraw-5k?
i wouldnt do that anyday but it currently seems a thing thrown at others.

you said it yourself. an awesome is easy to strip. it is an easy big target. a warhawk isnt.
the mounts themselves arent much higher.
warhawk excels at corner poking much. you cant do that with any awesome at all.

and still, to do the damage you can do with the warhawk you have to fire alot more over time.
thw awesome instead gets hammered at everything it does. hillpoking, corner poking. cant move his guns up and down much.

a duel? how cute.

[Alienized]

Leone, on 22 June 2016 - 10:08 AM, said:

Fair 'nouf, I give you the Troll Sidhe, a banshee built to make me try an play normal queue like a pug that does far better for me'n it should. I have had the distinction of being last mech standing with that beast before. Mind the heat though.

Such a blast to play.

~Leone

i know the feels, i had a banshee with 2 ac2, 1 lbx10 + 4 med lasers. it had so many good results that i refused to rebuild it to ac5's

currently im going havock with full brawl victors and highlanders (single ac10 highlander WHOOOOP!)
brawling dragon-1c's are so much fun as well. uac5 or lbx10, 4 med lasers + srm6. and ruuuuun

there are so many fun loadouts to be played far away from simple PPC boating or whatever.
its so much more satisfying to make them work very well than knowing your mech is so meta that its too easy to play good.

[SlightlyMobileTurret]

Alienized, on 22 June 2016 - 10:09 AM, said:

higher mounts? l3l
not so much.
i know how easy it is to kill awesomes, thanks.
been doing that since... forever.
typically, ya know, i just facehug them.

or leg them. they never skipped leg day. yumyum legs.
and what is it with all this *oh i got this much XP on my awesomes! i know what im talkin bout!*
that says literally nothing at all or should i now consider myself a Quickdraw god, having 2 mil XP on my quickdraw-5k?
i wouldnt do that anyday but it currently seems a thing thrown at others.

you said it yourself. an awesome is easy to strip. it is an easy big target. a warhawk isnt.
the mounts themselves arent much higher.
warhawk excels at corner poking much. you cant do that with any awesome at all.

and still, to do the damage you can do with the warhawk you have to fire alot more over time.
thw awesome instead gets hammered at everything it does. hillpoking, corner poking. cant move his guns up and down much.

a duel? how cute.

I am not pleased with how people who form these preconceived notions, like for example you do not own the Awesome at all, you do not play it, but you are able to pass judgement on it as being "bad".

I said, I own both mechs and find my Awesome better.

You just tell me, "awesomes are so easy to kill", as if that resolves everything. It most certainly isn't, and this argument is wrong.

You are welcome to check this out. While the Warhawk got some +9 on its side torsos and +20!!! on arms, which are useless for tanking, the Awesome has 55 points of extra structure on its torsos. Let's not forget, the Awesome has working arm shields, and a STD engine. Not to mention superior torso twist and turn speeds.

The Warhawk also suffers from the same easy to strip problem, it has been well known since the clan release.

The Awesome's all torso PPC mounts offer way tighter convergence, and there is absolutely 0 risk of friendly fire. The
Warhawk on the other hand...

I do not think the Warhawk is a bad mech, I enjoy piloting it. But when it comes to PPCs, the Awesome is a superior platform.

Sure, Warhawk has better range, but how often can you keep abusing that? 648 m range on regular PPCs is just about enough for anything. (Clan LPL range)

I actually bought Warhawks when most told me not to "because they were bad", and I find out when playing them, they're actually pretty strong. I do not base judgements on how "easy I find to kill X", I base it on experience playing the mech.

because it is ridiculously easy to take out my BNC-3M or DWF and turn every mech on the battlefield into scrap metal. This does not make those mechs bad.

The use of the words "duel" was rhetoric. Apologies if you took that literally.

You are welcome to believe what you want, I cannot take control of your brain and convince you that you are wrong and I am right.

Certainly would solve the problem I have with my communication skills.

Edited by Keshav Murali, 22 June 2016 - 05:30 PM.

[jss78]

Speaking as a medium jock, I'm slowly becoming a huge fan of the dual-PPC.

If you think of dealing out pin-point punches, in a medium 'mech specifically, stuff like dual-gauss and dual-AC/20 are out of the question. The essential comparison is with the single AC/20 which the HBK-4G rocks so well. But if you compare, 2xPPC weigh 14 tons vs. 18 tons for AC/20 with adequate (4 t) ammo, and you get twice the max range. The obvious tradeoff is the 90 m minimum range, but I'll still generally take the PPC's.

Heat is ostensibly another drawback, but a pair of PPC's is actually OK even with the ten internal "tru-dubs" of a 250+ rated engine. Any extra DHS on top of that and it gets better.

Edited by jss78, 25 June 2016 - 02:06 AM.