578 replies to this topic

[MuFasa]

Hey all this fussing needs to stop!!!! I mean at least they nerfed the Nova .. it was WAAAAY overpowered .... one step at a time people :/

[Dassh]

MovinTarget, on 22 June 2016 - 06:07 AM, said:

To avoid command wheel abuse, can we either have a limitation on how many times one or any commands can be used per minute by a given player?

That or simply mute a persons command wheel usage if you mute their voip. That way i can get intel from guys that don't abuse it but not from that guy that keeps clicking random commands non-stop...

There was an idea yesterday, to just make it possible to mute the com-wheel voices, to not mess up voip communication. I still can only support this.

Going further and make it possible to mute somebody off from chat perfectly isn't a bad idea either. But in this case, I think it would be better if people were just cut back a bit from infantile behaviour and stop pushing keys just because they can.

[ThatGuy539]

Mini-map
After seeing that there there will be a hot fix to make the mini-map more usable, and after reading about how the new map is meant to be used, I'm not so bummed out any more. It may bring a little more depth to the game. Could be fun. And give me an excuse to use a Command Console as more than just something to throw on if I have some free space.
But it'll take some getting used to too.

That mini-map change last night was like a sucker punch to the gut. Sudden and unpleasant. I even found that I was getting some eye strain after a few games.
I do want to win one specific item in the event, so I'll probably play again tonight, but probably not for as long as I usually do.

I never realized how much I depend on that little map. Even on maps that I've played hundreds of times I felt discombobulated. I hope they get in the hot fix soon. :-)

Maps
I do like the new Frozen City map. It is larger, but it still felt like a good fast moving game.
And it looks cool too.


However, it would be nice if some of the old maps could be put back in rotation. You could maybe update the textures, fix any bugs on them, etc. But for the most part leave them as they were.
We need some smaller maps as well as these new large ones.

Resizes
Meh...there is a difference, but it's not a game changer.
I was playing a Locust and an Executioner last night, and the only time I noticed the change was when I was standing right next to someone. ....those Locusts are so tiny now.
Side note: I had some guy rag on me for taking a Locust after I got wasted by a Kodiak last night, but didn't hear a peep when the game ended and I had the third highest damage and he had the lowest.

Bugs
My biggest pet peeve for a while now has been the collision lag. When you get close to or bump someone and you teleport. Sometimes it helps, sometimes it hurts....but it's always annoying.
Eg. Yesterday I was standing behind a guy in my Locust. He backed up and I teleported in front of him. So now I'm standing there with my back to him at point blank range. Luckily his weapons were all mounted higher than I stand.

But ya, when I run into a team of enemy mechs I can't control much. I start teleporting all over the place like some teleporting ping pong ball. And I have a good ping...usually at 60.
(Fun watching them shoot each other in an attempt to get me though.....but I do take a fair amount of collision damage.)

There must be something that can be done to resolve this long time problem.


Summary
So right now I still like to play the game. The mini-map as it currently is, is probably the only thing since I started playing the game that has really reduced it's play-ability and fun-factor. Any other issues were livable, or sometimes even fun. But ya, once the Mini-map is fixed I'll be happy again.

Edited by ThatGuy539, 22 June 2016 - 02:56 PM.

[No One Lives Forever]

Dassh, on 22 June 2016 - 06:36 AM, said:

There was an idea yesterday, to just make it possible to mute the com-wheel voices, to not mess up voip communication. I still can only support this.

Going further and make it possible to mute somebody off from chat perfectly isn't a bad idea either. But in this case, I think it would be better if people were just cut back a bit from infantile behaviour and stop pushing keys just because they can.

There is an option to mute it already in audio settings.

[Dassh]

I just read it in the notes (I missed it before):

"Our next steps, in a future patch, will be to implement the acquisition of Enemy ‘Mech Orientation Intel through the use of intel-gathering systems such as TAG and UAVs."

It is just a bad idea. That simple.

Don't take away the orientation info what everybody is used to. Because just don't. Seriously...
Like wasn't this rage-storm enough?

No One Lives Forever, on 22 June 2016 - 06:38 AM, said:

There is an option to mute it already in audio settings.

You mean all the com-wheel voices at once? Nice. Thanks!

[The Unstoppable Puggernaut]

So my verdict so far (ignoring the mini map because that's being fixed.

Wheel commands; Interesting idea but the options are poor. Also I've seen it highlight something I don't want and It's a PITA to try and sort out the selection, this is bad especially when "asking for help".

To point of the rescales, I can see a lot of catapults being played and it seems things are going well for them. Nova feels the same but I didnt die as quick, I didnt test it much more as the minimap was killing me (litterally). Didn't realise how much I relied on it.

All other mechs seem to feel the same when shooting at them, Locust is bite sized but given the armour... GOOD. I've played them and they need all the help they can get, they're very useful mechs. Spiders are still small and annoying so that's good.

I hope people post their pilot experiences to share. Would make an interesting read.

[Tiantara]

Dassh, on 22 June 2016 - 06:42 AM, said:

"Our next steps, in a future patch, will be to implement the acquisition of Enemy ‘Mech Orientation Intel through the use of intel-gathering systems such as TAG and UAVs."

It is just a bad idea. That simple.

- Its a good idea and i can explain why.
1. It' lover loading on servers. Info would be displayed only when it needed really by scouting mech and special modules. Also that can improve a little servers stability and lover (maybe) ping.
2. Scouting mech became scouts and get their points for that job. Not trying to deal maximum damage by load in mech awesome quantity of missiles or lasers.
3. Play mechanic became more tactical. You can understand what mech you see. Not running in triangle and die from exceed fire from assault with full armor. If you see icon of assault - you'll be ready for some mech smaller. That changes battle tactic in better way. You'll see that.
4. Tags and UAV became more useful and more properly used. Not only for LRM rain (I know, everyone hates LRM user for everything) but for info gathering. Maybe it add some XP or C-Bill bonuses for players who take that role in play and stop running with "leg-modyfied rocketlaunchers" or "hot-small laser furnace" just to make more damage even in cost of victory of whole team.

[Commander A9]

Minimap is not that bad guys, and I'm being serious.

[Daemon04]

Commander A9, on 22 June 2016 - 07:20 AM, said:

Minimap is not that bad guys, and I'm being serious.

You are having your own radar. It is mech-centered, so you know where to look at.
This new map would be great for a dedicated commander mode, looking onto the battlefield and directing all the mechs and having total overview.
Since there is nothing but being in the cockpit, that old default map/radar is crucial for the mechs survivabality and for coordination.
One actual sneak peek on the "new map" might have changed this to begin with.

Edited by Daemon04, 22 June 2016 - 07:22 AM.

[Dassh]

Tiantara, on 22 June 2016 - 07:03 AM, said:

- Its a good idea and i can explain why.

No, it isn't and I explain too why.

Tiantara, on 22 June 2016 - 07:03 AM, said:

1. It' lover loading on servers. Info would be displayed only when it needed really by scouting mech and special modules. Also that can improve a little servers stability and lover (maybe) ping.
2. Scouting mech became scouts and get their points for that job. Not trying to deal maximum damage by load in mech awesome quantity of missiles or lasers.
3. Play mechanic became more tactical. You can understand what mech you see. Not running in triangle and die from exceed fire from assault with full armor. If you see icon of assault - you'll be ready for some mech smaller. That changes battle tactic in better way. You'll see that.
4. Tags and UAV became more useful and more properly used. Not only for LRM rain (I know, everyone hates LRM user for everything) but for info gathering. Maybe it add some XP or C-Bill bonuses for players who take that role in play and stop running with "leg-modyfied rocketlaunchers" or "hot-small laser furnace" just to make more damage even in cost of victory of whole team.

1. It isn't a big deal serverload-wise, so i doubt it would mean any effect,

2. The problem with scouting Mechs is the size and design of maps. You will find the enemy anyways, usually in the well-known chokepoints and after this, if a Light can't participate in the battle, it's useless.
WoT-like spotting mechanics would be a huge fail in this game. And I say this after being hooked on to BT since 3rd edition tabletop (btw in TT and prev. PC games you know the location of anybody with an active radar across the whole map and it's still more tactical...).

3, 4. No, it won't be more tactical. It won't just put scouts/lights in aneven worse place but would flatten out the gameplay further.
Like how many of your Mechs are carrying BAP now?
People wouldn't waste weight and space on fancy intel stuff if they can pack firepower instead what will make the difference at the end anyways. So, if they can't have the features what make it possible to organise the team (like the important orientation info) they would just use even more the basic "keep together" deathballing, fireing lining tactics.
And being able to see the weight-class of a Mech isn't that important at all. It is important in WoT where there are no costumisation options practically and most lights, meds, TDs, anything plays the same.
But in MWO it would be way more important to know that are they LRM boats? Dakka? Brawlers? Etc. etc. the actual weight isn't that important at all. (I rather brawl with a run-down assault in any situation than a fresh SRM Griffin...)


That's it. That would be even more simple and one-direction. Two teams in two big groups fighting each other in one well-known chokepoint. And in a game like that, DPS is the way to go.

MWO already suffering from these problems and these changes will push it just even further.

(But, tbh, I don't know who had the idea that ripping off features from WoT - what actually is a damn boring gameplay disaster due to the very same problems tactics-wise - would make this better by any means.)

Daemon04, on 22 June 2016 - 07:22 AM, said:

You are having your own radar. It is mech-centered, so you know where to look at.
This new map would be great for a dedicated commander mode, looking onto the battlefield and directing all the mechs and having total overview.

There is a Battlegrid already what did this job perfectly.

Edited by Dassh, 22 June 2016 - 07:40 AM.

[Racerxintegra2k]

How to fix everything .... Role back patch and punch each other in between the legs for fixing things that were not broken.

[Desintegrator]

Hey PGI - perfectly done MiniMap !

I just come back from the bathroom where I had to vomit because I get the VR disease !

As always, this new feature have been tested intensly by the QA department and therefore it has been done in the best possible way before it has been released to the live servers ! Fantastic work !

We would need this for the World Championships !!
Only the true champions will survive this challenge !

[Tiantara]

Dassh, on 22 June 2016 - 07:28 AM, said:

No, it isn't and I explain too why.

1. It isn't a big deal serverload-wise, so i doubt it would mean any effect,

- Really - it can lover load. Now every mech blinked in radar send position and rotation info back and calculate for showing changes. I listen interview and think it can be right. Sometimes even smallest fut frequently used information can overload servers in specific time to make crash, disconnect or other problem.

Dassh, on 22 June 2016 - 07:28 AM, said:

2. The problem with scouting Mechs is the size and design of maps. You will find the enemy anyways, usually in the well-known chokepoints and after this, if a Light can't participate in the battle, it's useless.
WoT-like spotting mechanics would be a huge fail in this game. And I say this after being hooked on to BT since 3rd edition tabletop (btw in TT and prev. PC games you know the location of anybody with an active radar across the whole map and it's still more tactical...).

- Map became bigger. With pointing triangle you can just predict enemy movements and make battle in specific place. I think there is better way of using whole map depending on mech class and weapon loads. Without situation where all brawlers need to walk in open space because whole team walk there. We have lances and they can play different roles. Some by luring enemy to ambush, some for heavy fire, some for really support, not only for shielding. That make new battle points on map. Different and more strategy used when you can only rely on what you see, not only what radar show.

Dassh, on 22 June 2016 - 07:28 AM, said:

3, 4. No, it won't be more tactical. It won't just put scouts/lights in aneven worse place but would flatten out the gameplay further.
Like how many of your Mechs are carrying BAP now?
People wouldn't waste weight and space on fancy intel stuff if they can pack firepower instead what will make the difference at the end anyways. So, if they can't have the features what make it possible to organise the team (like the important orientation info) they would just use even more the basic "keep together" deathballing, fireing lining tactics.
And being able to see the weight-class of a Mech isn't that important at all. It is important in WoT where there are no costumisation options practically and most lights, meds, TDs, anything plays the same.
But in MWO it would be way more important to know that are they LRM boats? Dakka? Brawlers? Etc. etc. the actual weight isn't that important at all. (I rather brawl with a run-down assault in any situation than a fresh SRM Griffin...)

- Many of my mech uses as modules for radar as BAP within. Since Kodiak arriving - also TC II-IV model, which make weapons more precise and deadlier instead of putting more ammo or more guns and go overheat. Also Atlas uses Command Console. My Raven was good with TAG, NARC and UAV. And i want to use it like scout, not like sniper or fast dying target for anyone in range of 400m
Mostly of time mech class have some specific role better played on it. Like Centurion great as brawler but it funny to make it LRM boat or sniper. And many medium like that. Now the class icon seems useless, but in future it can be placed in more complex strategy. Where lance play as lance, not like some part of fire-line or death-box. Light and medium do scout and protect assaults. Heavy take main fire role and assaults put heavy damage on slower targets. Playing like team something more than "all stay here and fire to everything that shows on the hill". I miss that time when I can lure enemy to my teammates to final blow or really help in duel between two assaults.
Also no one have direction info. Both team and organize cooperation must in different way. Take down scouts if they shows. Be alerted, place proper mech in right map location before battle. Maybe make enemy pilot chase the fake target to make ambush. Now it can be don. With direction triangle - nope. Both sides if they not a newbie understand that light mech is decoy and simply move further. With new icons - it can be tactic and decision.

Dassh, on 22 June 2016 - 07:28 AM, said:

That's it. That would be even more simple and one-direction. Two teams in two big groups fighting each other in one well-known chokepoint. And in a game like that, DPS is the way to go.

MWO already suffering from these problems and these changes will push it just even further.

- Yes. All about DPS. And that must be changed. I play a lot with different mech and different team. Always same problem - pilot of light mech can do anything to take needed DPS for score and c-bills. Even if that bring fail for whole team. Same i can see in event Scouting. Better loose but take DPS, than take vital info and help to win. With new map icons of mech - i hope that turns in game of Lances, not brute group where main core is heavy and assault and light and medium mech just... ballast or for weight add-on. Nothing more. When success starting rely on skills of scout and provided vital info of direction of movement of enemy mech - that changes. Light can run, look, tag, place UAV and run back to team or... lure enemy in specific place. I hope that could work.

Edited by Tiantara, 22 June 2016 - 08:12 AM.

[Fiachain]

Did I miss it or are we still not going to know which way our allies are facing after the hot fix?

I get the idea of having enemy targets' orientation remain a mystery until it can be TAGed, UAVed, and I would like to add you'll get the orientation after holding the target long enough to gather its damage readout. It adds to immersion is a step in the direction of having some kind of role warfare. I don't know if it will work, but I see what they are trying to do an am willing to ride it out. The only reason in TT that evey 'Mech on the map could be seen was that in order to do otherwise would take a lot of extra paperwork in a paperwork heavy game. If I remember correctly, the Double Blind rules required three maps, three sets of both side's units, and a GM overseeing the to battling sides.

All that said, I don't get why we can't know our allies's orientation. To me it has always been really useful information to have and would be something that would be available to the MechWarriors in a unit. Can someone clarify why this is not being fixed with the other issues?

[Tiantara]

Fiachain, on 22 June 2016 - 08:44 AM, said:

Did I miss it or are we still not going to know which way our allies are facing after the hot fix?

All that said, I don't get why we can't know our allies's orientation. To me it has always been really useful information to have and would be something that would be available to the MechWarriors in a unit. Can someone clarify why this is not being fixed with the other issues?

- You get answer in your own post.

Fiachain, on 22 June 2016 - 08:44 AM, said:

I get the idea of having enemy targets' orientation remain a mystery until it can be TAGed, UAVed, and I would like to add you'll get the orientation after holding the target long enough to gather its damage readout. It adds to immersion is a step in the direction of having some kind of role warfare. I don't know if it will work, but I see what they are trying to do an am willing to ride it out.

- As said before - in future enemy orientation will be gathered by Tag, NARC, modules or some Command Console functionality. To make scout mech - scout. Not a Small Running Gun just for drop weight to start battle. That's why in fix we still get new icons of mech weight\class without they orientation. But we get our old mini-map with field of view, more visible ground and arrow of current movement direction of our mech. Possibility to turn our guns in right way and shoot target. That better than we have now. When mechanic of reading mech cockpit position angle by tagging or NARCing be ready - we get that as well. I think first with that function could be UAV. That's boost modules buying, consumables and so on... But we'll see.

What about our allies - that's right... But i think there could be less problem with field of view on mini-map. Also - command wheel can help to mark targets and visual contact. So - if something blinks on radar - everyone turns that side. Also - in practice knowing to which way look our teammate helps - but really little. Small mech rotating their cockpit and mech like hell and i see only spinning triangle which give less useful info. As for me - better know what weight of mech now positioned in specific quadrant to plan next move, than its orientation. I can think - "oh ok, there is mech", but in real-time there only slow assault and it can die from light. Or only light, who cant hold 2 or more enemy for long time. Knowing class of your teammate helps calculate right strategy and fast. Sending help or order to stay as long as possible to distract enemy.

Edited by Tiantara, 22 June 2016 - 09:05 AM.

[No One Lives Forever]

Tiantara, on 22 June 2016 - 08:56 AM, said:

- You get answer in your own post.



- As said before - in future enemy orientation will be gathered by Tag, NARC, modules or some Command Console functionality. To make scout mech - scout. Not a Small Running Gun just for drop weight to start battle. That's why in fix we still get new icons of mech weight\class without they orientation. But we get our old mini-map with field of view, more visible ground and arrow of current movement direction of our mech. Possibility to turn our guns in right way and shoot target. That better than we have now. When mechanic of reading mech cockpit position angle by tagging or NARCing be ready - we get that as well. I think first with that function could be UAV. That's boost modules buying, consumables and so on... But we'll see.

To me it just looks like waste of resources and time. Minimap and info it had on was just fine, wasn't broken, didnt need no fix. Might be good to look at it at some point when more important stuff would be sorted out. There's way more important stuff to sort out than minimap IMHO.

[Dassh]

Tiantara, on 22 June 2016 - 08:09 AM, said:

Stuff...

Yes, it is all about DPS. But I don't see how could these changes help this and not just make the situation worse.

On paper it's awesome, indeed, but just try to imagine how the usual player will react to this?
Like, they tweaked around with sensor ranges before, did it mean anything actually? Not much...

As long as even conquest matches are about to steamroll the enemy 9 of 10 times (btw I appreciate the newish mechanic to capture points even if there's no enemy...) and you know after the map is chosen that where will you go and prob. when will they come, there's no point in intel data.

The problem isn't about how should be intel gathering implemented or not, in the first place, but what is the reason, the benefit for all the souting at all? Atm not much.


And sure, I use BAP aswell and I have UAV on most of my Mechs, but the only reason for them is to help with that DPS (so faster lock and such) never to scout (I even throw up UAV where I know they are to help others get locks).


I still think it won't help the problem but rather cause harm.

[Tiantara]

No One Lives Forever, on 22 June 2016 - 09:04 AM, said:

To me it just looks like waste of resources and time. Minimap and info it had on was just fine, wasn't broken, didnt need no fix. Might be good to look at it at some point when more important stuff would be sorted out. There's way more important stuff to sort out than minimap IMHO.

- With implementation of new functions for battlefield (big map) and command wheel - all old become incompatible. In one or another way (code, art, design or other stuff like server commands). Its's like when you change your motherboard - you need to replace another processor, or maybe memory or even HDD. That's why it needed to change like that. But i agree - if that was done with mini-map like shown in hot-fix news, there be less hothead players and less angry posts. Also it preparing for change in tactic. Step from death-balling game to more lance vs lance play. Where everyone know right role and play as team intuitively

[Dassh]

Fiachain, on 22 June 2016 - 08:44 AM, said:

Did I miss it or are we still not going to know which way our allies are facing after the hot fix?

No, it seems like that.

Fiachain, on 22 June 2016 - 08:44 AM, said:

I get the idea of having enemy targets' orientation remain a mystery until it can be TAGed, UAVed, and I would like to add you'll get the orientation after holding the target long enough to gather its damage readout. It adds to immersion is a step in the direction of having some kind of role warfare. I don't know if it will work, but I see what they are trying to do an am willing to ride it out.

Making it time-based, as you supposed, it could work maybe.
I still ain't convinced at all.
But getting rid of friendy orientations is definietly just hurts.

Fiachain, on 22 June 2016 - 08:44 AM, said:

The only reason in TT that evey 'Mech on the map could be seen was that in order to do otherwise would take a lot of extra paperwork in a paperwork heavy game. If I remember correctly, the Double Blind rules required three maps, three sets of both side's units, and a GM overseeing the to battling sides.

What's the reason behind the TT mechenics is a good question, but it works very well the way it works.

But it worked even in previous PC games - if you remember - that you can see everybody in you quite huge sensor range (what you can even switch between distances ofc) who has an active radar running. And you can go passive radar what will mean that your radar is turned off, so you have to rely on visuals, but in exchange you are 'invisible' to everybody who isn't about right next to you. (kind of like MWO ECM, since ECM works in a very different way in other games, not like the "jesus field genertor".)
Again, these mechanics worked perfectly.

Edited by Dassh, 22 June 2016 - 09:14 AM.

[ExoForce]

ThatGuy539, on 22 June 2016 - 06:37 AM, said:

Eg. Yesterday I was standing behind a guy in my Locust. He backed up and I teleported in front of him. So now I'm standing there with my back to him at point blank range. Luckily his weapons were all mounted higher than I stand.

Thanks for the Pro-tip !

I am paranoid in hell, so I have a bad feeling about this hot-fix. They will not gave up from their "ideas". Never.