578 replies to this topic

[Alienized]

Some quirks on IS mechs are.... a tad off... like giving a mauler-1R ER large laser quirks....
if you ever seen a -1r with lasers at all.. it surely havent been er large lasers.

[MovinTarget]

So whats the word on Heat 2.0? IS players are dodging that because *if* its implemented, that will gimp Clans and while some IS struct quirks were reduced they were still there.

The big thing Clans have is high alphas, IS were given struct quirks to compensate, but if heat 2.0 penalizes high alphas, your additional structure/armor will be that much more valuable. It would take clans 2 separate volleys to do as much damage as we did with one, which means more face time with less armor/struct.

I will keep saying it, apart from a few outliers, requirks not necessary, heat 2.0 not necessary, things were relatively balanced.

[Alienized]

MovinTarget, on 18 June 2016 - 03:57 AM, said:

So whats the word on Heat 2.0? IS players are dodging that because *if* its implemented, that will gimp Clans and while some IS struct quirks were reduced they were still there.

The big thing Clans have is high alphas, IS were given struct quirks to compensate, but if heat 2.0 penalizes high alphas, your additional structure/armor will be that much more valuable. It would take clans 2 separate volleys to do as much damage as we did with one, which means more face time with less armor/struct.

I will keep saying it, apart from a few outliers, requirks not necessary, heat 2.0 not necessary, things were relatively balanced.

look how huge ALOT of IS mechs went. thats the nerf we got.

[C E Dwyer]

Not sure what I think, my thoughts meander between o.k lets give it a go, and god time to cancel the Pheonix Hawk and Cyclops, and maybe uninstall.

I want to enjoy all aspects of the game, except E-comp, which I want nothing to do with, the MRSB or whatever it is league ( sorry guys if I butchered the name of your hard work) has a point its well created, its structured there is a proper supply demand, savanger system. and it works extremely well, and has a point. I'm not going to mention what I think of E-comp as I don't want to lower this threat into an argument.

These changes are going to make faction play even less populated, I honestly don't believe Phase 3 was worth the effort now. what casuals, and I mean casual unit players that contributed to FW population that haven't left over Long Tom will reduce in numbers over the re-scale or go clan, I guess that's why you made the changes to the ghost drops ?

Redesigns you had the chance to remake the Battlemaster, make it more gundam like it should have been and you blew it, and it remains a Russian tractor, function, but looking like a shot putters backside one that wears a speedo at that.

Victor well structure in its ST are o.k, but with weak JJ's and low hard points it needs a crit reduction chance like the atlas, so an XL can be run,more safely, standard engine builds reduce the weapon load out even further, and without JJ's making it jump it still needs a lot of help.

I'm shaking my head at the Highlander changes, both I.S and clan, also the Executioner, all three need more buffs now as does the gargoyle.

Awesome, sits on a maybe, I don't think the new build is slim enough, but now it's wearing a corset, it might make a difference, and a desire to try it is one of the few things this patch bring to make me want to log in.

You make the Quickdraw smaller and buff it, while you make the Grasshopper larger and nerf it, the QuickD already had better structure buffs, and now its better all around that the Grasshopper and was being used in team play as often as the Hopper.

I.S. lights seriously ?

Another round quirks and still no change to the lrm15/20 missile concentrations to make them a viable option to lrm5/10 ?

God knows what this is going to do with PXH and Cyclops sales

All in all I get the impression this is a very bad patch for the future of the game, makes me sad.

All in all I think these changes are

MovinTarget, on 18 June 2016 - 03:57 AM, said:

So whats the word on Heat 2.0? IS players are dodging that because *if* its implemented, that will gimp Clans and while some IS struct quirks were reduced they were still there.

The big thing Clans have is high alphas, IS were given struct quirks to compensate, but if heat 2.0 penalizes high alphas, your additional structure/armor will be that much more valuable. It would take clans 2 separate volleys to do as much damage as we did with one, which means more face time with less armor/struct.

I will keep saying it, apart from a few outliers, requirks not necessary, heat 2.0 not necessary, things were relatively balanced.

Heat 2.0 is the only thing left that might keep F.W play alive, if P.G.I box this badly that's pretty much that, they had better get it right, and in the live game Asap before more people bleed away.

[MovinTarget]

Alienized, on 18 June 2016 - 04:02 AM, said:

look how huge ALOT of IS mechs went. thats the nerf we got.

People are so funny... you are not even reading what I'm saying are you? I am not disagreeing with with you about changes, only that you have to look at both sides. Something us mercs have to do.

I can drop either side and get comparable scores, I just have to do it using different weapons...

If people would stop screaming MIMIMIMIMIMIMIMIMI! and take a look at the game as a whole, you'd see that *we* are the ones that propagate these imbalances at least to some degree.

When we whine and complain and demand and they try to please one demographic to the expense of another.

Thats why I'm saying leave the quirks alone, at least until the resize settles in. I am curious to see how much a difference it makes in game because when things are standing still, side by side, sure you can see the difference. But when it's moving? I don't know that the difference will be quite as big as people are making it out to be.

Please listen to a software developer. As a system approaches a certain point, Trying to "perfect" it becomes harder and harder because of the overwhelming dependencies that are affected and affect each point to be perfected. You end up with band aids on top of duct tape on top of band aids.

Sometimes the more you tinker, the more you break stuff.

One.more.time. Apart from *minor* tweaks to specific mechs, balance is dang good. Don't change anything, not general quirk nerfs, not heat 2.0...

Focus on other game mechanics that will get butts in chairs to play the game.

[Alienized]

well, you know, its not that alot of IS mechs also got their quirks changed negatively and some got really senseless ones in addition....

this is and will be a full IS nerf patch.
some mechs needed it but ALOT just dont.

why im with you. they should have left the quirks untouched at first......

[C E Dwyer]

MovinTarget, on 18 June 2016 - 04:17 AM, said:

People are so funny... you are not even reading what I'm saying are you? I am not disagreeing with with you about changes, only that you have to look at both sides. Something us mercs have to do.

I can drop either side and get comparable scores, I just have to do it using different weapons...

If people would stop screaming MIMIMIMIMIMIMIMIMI! and take a look at the game as a whole, you'd see that *we* are the ones that propagate these imbalances at least to some degree.

When we whine and complain and demand and they try to please one demographic to the expense of another.

Thats why I'm saying leave the quirks alone, at least until the resize settles in. I am curious to see how much a difference it makes in game because when things are standing still, side by side, sure you can see the difference. But when it's moving? I don't know that the difference will be quite as big as people are making it out to be.

Please listen to a software developer. As a system approaches a certain point, Trying to "perfect" it becomes harder and harder because of the overwhelming dependencies that are affected and affect each point to be perfected. You end up with band aids on top of duct tape on top of band aids.

Sometimes the more you tinker, the more you break stuff.

One.more.time. Apart from *minor* tweaks to specific mechs, balance is dang good. Don't change anything, not general quirk nerfs, not heat 2.0...

Focus on other game mechanics that will get butts in chairs to play the game.

Your probably right, but its the perception that causes the damage.

After what is such for some mech a drastic change, not so for others, the sensible thing would have been to leave quirks alone until the process had bedded in, and seen how the resizes worked for better or worse, with every mech except the Nova and the Catapult,which clearly needed some minor sort of nerf as they are that much smaller, making adjustments for unchanged mech also a possiblity, alas P.G.I rarely do sensible where game play is involved.

Edited by Cathy, 18 June 2016 - 04:32 AM.

[MovinTarget]

Cathy, on 18 June 2016 - 04:13 AM, said:

Heat 2.0 is the only thing left that might keep F.W play alive, if P.G.I box this badly that's pretty much that, they had better get it right, and in the live game Asap before more people bleed away.

If Heat 2.0 cripples clan, everyone will go IS and goodbye balance.

I like some ideas (speed reduction, which I believe is lore), but if its a flat cap at 30 dmg as some said, thats just dumb.

Even with reduced quirks, IS mechs are still harder to kill than clan mechs when comparing armor and structure points. So 30 damage hitting a Clan mech is more damaging than 30 damage on an IS, right? So Clans lose higher alpha ability and IS take longer to kill right?

If they make the clan and IS caps independent and tune-able, perhaps we'll hit a sweet spot, but as I said in my last post, the complexities you add, the harder it is to juggle the dependencies.

Which is why I've been saying stop after resizing, balance is good. No quirk changes, for the most part.

Cathy, on 18 June 2016 - 04:28 AM, said:

Your probably right

Cathy agrees with me?!?!?!? I'm framing this and putting it on my wall!

Edited by MovinTarget, 18 June 2016 - 04:31 AM.

[C E Dwyer]

MovinTarget, on 18 June 2016 - 04:31 AM, said:

If Heat 2.0 cripples clan, everyone will go IS and goodbye balance.

I like some ideas (speed reduction, which I believe is lore), but if its a flat cap at 30 dmg as some said, thats just dumb.

Even with reduced quirks, IS mechs are still harder to kill than clan mechs when comparing armor and structure points. So 30 damage hitting a Clan mech is more damaging than 30 damage on an IS, right? So Clans lose higher alpha ability and IS take longer to kill right?

If they make the clan and IS caps independent and tune-able, perhaps we'll hit a sweet spot, but as I said in my last post, the complexities you add, the harder it is to juggle the dependencies.

Which is why I've been saying stop after resizing, balance is good. No quirk changes, for the most part.




Cathy agrees with me?!?!?!? I'm framing this and putting it on my wall!

nah I'll go with 30 cap it might make my beloved Victors good mechs again

[Stahlherz]

Henry Pride, on 18 June 2016 - 03:24 AM, said:

Oh, and Clan guys, you did see the Faction map didnt you?

Yeah, saw that. Three Clans down. One being mildly successfull. Did you compare to the maps of the Betas 1 and 2?
Jade Falcon success is not based on Clan Tech.

[MovinTarget]

Stahlherz, on 18 June 2016 - 04:42 AM, said:

Yeah, saw that. Three Clans down. One being mildly successfull. Did you compare to the maps of the Betas 1 and 2?
Jade Falcon success is not based on Clan Tech.

Cjf is the *only* place for mercs to go and they have good loyalists so yes, clams be putting all their eggs in one basket...

Besides if you look at total w/l records of IS and clan, they are not that different, close to a 1.0 ratio... so... yeah as balanced as can be hoped for... just nobody left to enjoy it....

Edited by MovinTarget, 18 June 2016 - 05:04 AM.

[MovinTarget]

Cathy, on 18 June 2016 - 04:34 AM, said:

nah I'll go with 30 cap it might make my beloved Victors good mechs again

Bah, i knew it was too good to be true...

[Zolaz]

Decals in 90 days!!!

[MovinTarget]

I guess my concern is that people whine and complain b/c their personal expectations and agendas are not being met. The people that are happy with the game aren't complaining so the changes are always skewed to the agendas of a vocal minority.

In other words, a lot of the time i find it hard to believe that those that raise issues about "look what they did to this mech or that mech" have anything but their own interests at heart. I swear for some, that *is* their game... they don't balance, they don't care about balance, they just want what they want and everyone else can take a hike.

That attitude will just get this game scuttled sooner rather than later.

We need a game that has some modicum of balance and a better means to induct new players. Thats my verbose 2 cents...

[C E Dwyer]

Right or wrong, whatever the argument the argument to end all of them is about to be recognised

This must be an extremely pro clan patch as a certain Clan wolf Pilot hasn't been condemning it out of hand

[CK16]

Am I the only Clan player who is a bit stocked for when they will added Stock mode and quirkless mode in? To see how much quirks change how a chassis perform actually? Just, I gotta find some warriros for target practice though >.>

For once I am.sound in seeing IS getting slapped hard and not Clan, it seem for ages PGI was very willing to knee jerk and buff IS chassis into meta....and then with out a second though swing the bat at Clans. Does not taste good does it?

Honestly though, the quirk adjustment seems like one of the best in a long time, they are not adding insane quirks to anything, and they nibbled away some of the IMO over quirked mechs to bring them back into the middle more.

Edited by CK16, 18 June 2016 - 05:53 AM.

[SilentScreamer]

MovinTarget, on 18 June 2016 - 04:17 AM, said:

People are so funny... you are not even reading what I'm saying are you? I am not disagreeing with with you about changes, only that you have to look at both sides. Something us mercs have to do.

I can drop either side and get comparable scores, I just have to do it using different weapons...

If people would stop screaming MIMIMIMIMIMIMIMIMI! and take a look at the game as a whole, you'd see that *we* are the ones that propagate these imbalances at least to some degree.

When we whine and complain and demand and they try to please one demographic to the expense of another.

Thats why I'm saying leave the quirks alone, at least until the resize settles in. I am curious to see how much a difference it makes in game because when things are standing still, side by side, sure you can see the difference. But when it's moving? I don't know that the difference will be quite as big as people are making it out to be.

Please listen to a software developer. As a system approaches a certain point, Trying to "perfect" it becomes harder and harder because of the overwhelming dependencies that are affected and affect each point to be perfected. You end up with band aids on top of duct tape on top of band aids.

Sometimes the more you tinker, the more you break stuff.

One.more.time. Apart from *minor* tweaks to specific mechs, balance is dang good. Don't change anything, not general quirk nerfs, not heat 2.0...

Focus on other game mechanics that will get butts in chairs to play the game.

Davion loyalist here and completely agree!

[Lehmund]

Commander A9, on 17 June 2016 - 05:28 PM, said:

• An Uncontested Invasion Defense/Counter Attack Defense Drop will have no affect on Territories owned.

So what you're saying is...the best way to solidify a planet's hold once you get it above 51% in your favor while on the attack...is to stop attacking it?

It's already like that. You just don't have to kill generators or beacons anymore. The system will give you the territory. This is a ghost drop situation.... No need to waste a few minutes unopposed on the field and instead drop again hopefully against opponents....

[Cy Mitchell]

Appogee, on 18 June 2016 - 12:44 AM, said:

Sad to see so many IS Mechs got such nerfs... generally increased sizes, lots of reductions to positive quirks.

I guess we will wait and see, but when you contrast this with the significant buffs to the Novas, a couple of the IICs, the general buffs to Timbies and no change to the Kodiak, I sense we're heading back into an imbalanced state with Clans having the upper hand.

Oh well, at least levelling my II-Cs wont be such a chore.

Buff to the Nova? Nova got sized smaller (like the Catapult) and got its structure and armor quirks reduced.

[Lehmund]

Henry Pride, on 18 June 2016 - 03:24 AM, said:

Lets calculate this **** a bit. First PGI kills some of our few possibilities to deal with the Clans. TBolts even more fragile, the overall really hot Black Knight, even hotter, Jenners as large Cicadas, with legs that are pretty easy to hit, Oxide now a slowpoke on total gameplay... Yea, of course IS is easymode...

None of you clan guys ever encountert a full coordinated 12 man of your own kind didnt you? You still cry cause some organised IS Teams Roflstomp you from time to time with some coordination and dew to the fact that most of your teammates bring redicilous mechbuilds along and you fail as a PUG comp... yea *epic slowclap*
Clan Mechs are faster in general, dont die while losing a side torso and have a way higher alpha across most range segments.
Yes, some are more fragile and yes, they are mostly hotter then IS Mechs, but a 80 kph 75 ton Mech is still a BIG advantage if you bring 12 of em and just shoot the **** out of us poor IS guys.

Good Job PGI, you gave us tryhards even less possibilities to tryhard....

Oh, and Clan guys, you did see the Faction map didnt you? Jade Falcon nearly havin a Marik border... again.....
And you guys still cry that IS is OP and Easymode... O_o

Man. Perspectives differ quite a bit depending on who you are facing....

JF won it's territory against Steiner due to coordination and a few highly coordinated, skilled merc groups over a period.

ALL 4 Clans are beaten up because of a single attacking faction: FRR + it's mercs. Mostly because they have a centralized coordination TS hub.

Proof of the matter is in the last week + both Steiner and FRR have been attacking JF. FRR has won at least 5 JF planets in that time while Steiner got..... 0?

Steiner and FRR have access to the exact same mechs. What makes the difference is the pilots (quantity and quality through coordination).

Pilots and units should put their personal experiences aside a little bit and look at the big picture. Overall, I think mech-wise there are some on both sides that needed quirked / nerfed so we can see more meta variety on the battlefield or in most rescale cases, make the geometry/scale fit its volumetric tonnage. Some needed quirk adjustments to let some underused mechs shine and bring down some a notch.

The fact that IS Oxides won't be as OP on the battlefield means IS light pilots will be bringing other light mechs that are now equally good. Does that make IS teams less efficient as a whole? Yes it does. But remember that Clan Jenner IICs also got nerfed and that was a well used mech too.

Overall, IS mechs got nerfed more than clan mechs in this patch, but I doubt the W/L results on the battlefield will change all that much, just mech variety.

Simply because what wins games is not so much mech selection but how teams successfully play to their strengths, as a team.