446 replies to this topic

[DriFD3S]

MAKE MECHWARRIOR GREAT AGAIN.

[SidDoc]

Please bring the olp minimap back

[P]

i personally do not like the new map mechanism
i do not mind having it
but it lacks flexibility

- to be able to see the entire map is one thing, it's cool
- can we have a rotatable map?
- zoom in and out of maps possible?
- map rotates according to mech torso/legs?

[Ray Parks]

Much is said about the new minimap. To make it short:

1. we need auto-rotation (orientation)

2. we need zoom or toggle "local" for better view on the vicinity

Losing directional arrows on the map may feel uncomfortable now, but could be counted as "realistic": Sensors can spot the position and evaluate size or weight, but not the direction of legs or torso (at leasr I could live with that).

[-Zeist-]

This is the first time I've ever posted on forum's, I had to come and say this new mini map thing is the most disorientating system i've ever seen, how could this possibly have been thought to be better? I quit unless it changes straight up unplayable, thanks for this and goodbye all hf gl gg.

[Capt Cluster]

The whole point of a minimap is to provide situational awareness. The new map doesn't provide ANY!

It's too dark to read so you don't know where you are; the map is too small; the symbols are too big, too confusing and all overlap; you've no idea which way anyone is facing or moving etc etc etc.

I played 3 games last night and got so confused/frustrated/angry that I gave up and went back to WoT which actually has a minimap that provides SA

I don't know which oxygen thief came up with the idea for this new minimap, but please, please, pretty please, fire the muppet and give us the old minimap back!!!!

Edited by Capt Cluster, 21 June 2016 - 11:02 PM.

[gloowa]

Rejoice people:

http://mwomercs.com/...ng-new-mini-map

That being said, i have to correct someone:

Quote

Rather than displaying the Map in its entirety, the Mini Map will now instead display a 2000m^2 area around your ‘Mech. This is a slightly larger area compared to the pre-patch Mini Map, which displayed an area of 1600m^2

Ummmm... I am fairly certain old minimap displayed more than 1600 m^2 (that would equate 40m range: 40m * 40m == 1600 m^2). Just a reminder - square with the side of Xm does not contain Xm^2. It contains X^2 m^2.

[UGiveBackCookie]

First thing i would like to say please don't dismiss people's different opinions based on statements like "people don't like change" or implying they are crybabies who got their toys taken away and throw a tantrum. Not a very encouraging way to start a constructive to and fro dialogue.

Second, back to the map. As World of Tanks map was given as an example and as first time I saw this new minimap I thought "someone has been playing WoT" (I also play WoT) i'll reffer to it. But after playing, I do find this new minimap to be a poorer implementation of that one, without even going into the fact tha WoT allows and is full of mods. I think someone has not been playing WoT but rather watched some videos. I'll try and compare them:

- In WoT you have the ability to scale the minimap to usable size and detail (kind of zoom in MWO UI context). Bring that back.
-WoT map has "fixed or rotating with the player map" option. It needs to be an option
- WoT has fov and direction of sight indicators (like old MWO minimap used to). This new MWO map has not, and as i remember it was implemented because people felt the need for that. Has that need suddenly vanished?
- WoT map has range, sight, signal range indicators. MWO has not
-WoT minimap is much richer in detail (color, shading, contrast, features representation) which allows for more information about positioning. MWO needs that too if it adopts this style of a map.
- WoT icons are solid, contrasting colors and different shaped/sized for a good reason - the moment they are clustered you can still tell what's what. Change the icons (the military ones are thought for a different scale/context than a 6x6 cm frame). Use various shapes, sizes and solid/empty icons and it should improve.
-last thing - immersion. WoT is a WW2 tank game, commander reads a map. MWO is a futuristic high tech game where info comes from radar and sensors.

Having said that,it does not mean i don't like the idea of the new map as explained by Ross. I dislike the way it was half arsedly implemented and released. At least some of the above functions should have been implemented to make the change palatable (zoom since scale in MWO does not integrate, FoV/direction of legs and rotation option)

I do like the idea of "information warfare" dependent minimap. By all means, go with "direction of enemy mech based on available information" to that with both lights and/or UAVs. Add even type of enemy mech as collectible info. I also do find that interesting and do think would crate some depth.
But that does not mean minimap has to be confusing at best, marginally useful most of the times even with the info it provides.

To close, stop putting out changes that are not tested/thought out just to have them and say deal with it, if it doesn't stick we'll change the change. That's how you ruin even basically good ideas like the info warfare one.

[Brom96]

UGiveBackCookie, on 21 June 2016 - 11:49 PM, said:

First thing i would like to say please don't dismiss people's different opinions based on statements like "people don't like change" or implying they are crybabies who got their toys taken away and throw a tantrum. Not a very encouraging way to start a constructive to and fro dialogue.

Second, back to the map. As World of Tanks map was given as an example and as first time I saw this new minimap I thought "someone has been playing WoT" (I also play WoT) i'll reffer to it. But after playing, I do find this new minimap to be a poorer implementation of that one, without even going into the fact tha WoT allows and is full of mods. I think someone has not been playing WoT but rather watched some videos. I'll try and compare them:

- In WoT you have the ability to scale the minimap to usable size and detail (kind of zoom in MWO UI context). Bring that back.
-WoT map has "fixed or rotating with the player map" option. It needs to be an option
- WoT has fov and direction of sight indicators (like old MWO minimap used to). This new MWO map has not, and as i remember it was implemented because people felt the need for that. Has that need suddenly vanished?
- WoT map has range, sight, signal range indicators. MWO has not
-WoT minimap is much richer in detail (color, shading, contrast, features representation) which allows for more information about positioning. MWO needs that too if it adopts this style of a map.
- WoT icons are solid, contrasting colors and different shaped/sized for a good reason - the moment they are clustered you can still tell what's what. Change the icons (the military ones are thought for a different scale/context than a 6x6 cm frame). Use various shapes, sizes and solid/empty icons and it should improve.
-last thing - immersion. WoT is a WW2 tank game, commander reads a map. MWO is a futuristic high tech game where info comes from radar and sensors.

Having said that,it does not mean i don't like the idea of the new map as explained by Ross. I dislike the way it was half arsedly implemented and released. At least some of the above functions should have been implemented to make the change palatable (zoom since scale in MWO does not integrate, FoV/direction of legs and rotation option)

I do like the idea of "information warfare" dependent minimap. By all means, go with "direction of enemy mech based on available information" to that with both lights and/or UAVs. Add even type of enemy mech as collectible info. I also do find that interesting and do think would crate some depth.
But that does not mean minimap has to be confusing at best, marginally useful most of the times even with the info it provides.

To close, stop putting out changes that are not tested/thought out just to have them and say deal with it, if it doesn't stick we'll change the change. That's how you ruin even basically good ideas like the info warfare one.

I can only agree. Sorry for posting here again, but after several games with the new "map" I find it a hindrance. I assume that I'm not the only one who is reduced to using battlegrid every five seconds to actualy see the position of friedns and enemies, since otherwise they are just pileup of blue or red icon, which, in turn, renders any benefits from those confusing weight symbols nill...

As having military background, being platoon commander, I can say that in real time tactical enviroment I need something that represents location, with its features, terrain, etc. and friend/enemy location and distance. That is a must for successfull tactical combat. Battleground is nice for planning, but minimap is what each pilot reffers to, and thus is vital for completing tactical goals. New mini map is nothing but a jumble of symbols I can barely see due to their size and is nothing more then scaled down verison of battlegrid.As a pilot, I am concerned with the immediate vicinity (1km in this game, more or less), because that's where the threats are. If someone in my team gets attacked beyond that range I can simply put up battlegrid, see the location and react. The other issue is, even in light, if the unfortunate fellow is over 1km away and fights two or more enemies, it's down to his skill in piloting the mech, rather then in my speed of reaction. This saying because I understand that was one of developer's concerns that brought this version of mini map we see now.

On the other note, isn't the minimap supposed to be radar screen, and thus slewed to my mech? Basically, from RP and timeline perspective, in the future they have no features that fighters in the 50s had?

And regarding that command wheel feature. I had to turn speakers off to prevent other players spamming with the confusing commands. I didn't get to see single situation it was used properly, but it gets used for spamming each several seconds. I can see it only as distraction. It would be ideal if it would be reduced to text only or set as an option, so far it is confusing.

Edited by Brom96, 22 June 2016 - 12:15 AM.

[RoToR]

UGiveBackCookie, on 21 June 2016 - 11:49 PM, said:

-last thing - immersion. WoT is a WW2 tank game, commander reads a map. MWO is a futuristic high tech game where info comes from radar and sensors.

THIS

Edited by RoToR, 22 June 2016 - 01:46 AM.

[Fireeagle]

the new minimap is a fail!

• i was allways orientating on the minimap- especially Torso and legs
  
• Seismicsensors are unusuable now

Ideas:
Asign the new map to the unused sceens in the Cockpit and Keep orignial maps in HUD ( or also asign it to an monito in Cockpit!!!!!!

[AeusDeif]

Wrote a long post and accidentally deleted it, then read PGI's announcement and the townhall discussion. So I decided to make a thread about better ideas. http://mwomercs.com/...-how-to-fix-it/

[p4r4g0n]

There needs to be a built in guide on what the symbols on the mini map mean. Only a fraction of the player base uses this site but it is the only place you can find the relevant info AFAIK. - edit found it in the Battle Grid which begs the question why I need to use the Battle Grid to find something I am seeing on the mini map

The lack of contrast on the mini map basically means that very little of the terrain is visible and it just looks like a dark or white blob depending on map.

With respect to hotfix -

"• The Mini Map will now again rotate with your ‘Mech, as it did with the previous Mini Map. It will no longer be locked in position, as it was with the initial June 21st patch.

• With the placement of the grid markers back onto the Mini Map, we have slightly increased the size of the Mini Map UI element itself, to make use of that available space."


I can see how a locked map can be beneficial in some instances and I would certainly like to try to get used to the locked map position. Please allow the option of toggling this if possible.

Given the constraints on mini map size, I believe that it will be difficult to convey sufficient information via the mini map in a single display to make future info tech features useful.

Please consider the possibility of splitting the display into a terrain map and a radar screen (or some other relevant combination) rather than just increasing the mini map size which already is a huge hindrance when getting face hugged by lights or when trying to shoot at a lower level.

Edited by p4r4g0n, 22 June 2016 - 04:26 AM.

[DemonRaziel]

p4r4g0n, on 22 June 2016 - 02:42 AM, said:

Please consider the possibility of splitting the display into a terrain map and a radar screen (or some other relevant combination) rather than just increasing the mini map size which already is a huge hindrance when getting face hugged by lights or when trying to shoot at a lower level.

I believe they are only going to increase the size of the actual map, by removing the grid legend on it's left and upper side, since you can again see the coordinates inside the grids.

Also, splitting the radar and the map is not a bad idea, but the minimap is still going to be too small to show the whole area on the big maps in a reasonable manner.

A toggle between a whole area map and a close vicinity map on the minimap, for when you can't open a battlegrid at the moment, would be a neat option, while retaining all the utility of the old minimap/radar for most of the time.

And for the "If someone says "HELP!" I can now see where he is anywhere on the map, argument... Can't you make it that choosing the Help option from the command wheel will add the coordinates after the "Help"? e.g. "Help! C3".

As a side note, I can't believe how "the competitive players PGI is discussing their ideas with" (you know who I mean) have once again proven to be the yes-okay men they always were, and not told them what a pile of crap they are putting on the live servers, for all the wrong reasons.

[Lily from animove]

DemonRaziel, on 22 June 2016 - 03:28 AM, said:

As a side note, I can't believe how "the competitive players PGI is discussing their ideas with" (you know who I mean) have once again proven to be the yes-okay men they always were, and not told them what a pile of crap they are putting on the live servers, for all the wrong reasons.

Did they even approved this?

If so maybe it had their own purpose, make the mass deal with a crapmap and keep your VOIP coordinationa advantage. Wouldn't be suprprised if some "comps" want to keep status quo by making many things harder for the mass.

[Saskia]

I find the new mini map atrocious! It looks very backward and acts very backward. The old one was much better. I was unable to get my bearings with it let alone see the content upon it as I could before. I find this new map distracting as well as unable to direct me with correct orientation. I insist the previous one be returned asap. If you insist on keeping it, then you must give us the choice of whichever one we prefer to use.

I would also like to mention the difficulty in obtaining coordinates now. Having them on the map rather than around the map is far less time consuming and risky during pivotal encounters.

Edited by Saskia, 22 June 2016 - 04:53 AM.

[deadmt]

The hotfix isnt live yet?!

Welcome to the pre-Alpha of MwO..

[Mankor]

This is my third year of Mech Warrior, so I've seen some of the dumb things. I think devs need to be able to just try things - hey why not, people might like it! When we respond, the devs normally try to make it better. This minimap is bad. I got motion sickness playing a video game for the first time ever... I didn't know that was possible. I'm kind of impressed that one little change to a game could make that drastic of a difference. I tried playing in 3rd person most of the time so I didn't have to look at it - not to be bitter, but to just avoid the nausea.

I'm not a "fix it or I'm never playing again guy," but I can't play the game like this... and what others have said - too small for tactics - no seismic - etc.

[Damnedtroll]

Just zoom it at the size of the old one and most problem resolved... It's just damn too small !

Just seen new hot fix, look awesome !

Edited by Damnedtroll, 22 June 2016 - 04:03 AM.

[Reven]

Appreciate the thought behind the hotfix....perhaps that the best that could be done. The size helps with the previous crowding issue where information would degrade quickly into just a bunch of clustered symbols.

Unfortunately, it's too big size-wise taking too much space for the minimal information able to be quickly digested. I care more than anything where enemies are located...with the highest priority for the most information on those that can shoot me. If they can't shoot me (or shoot me too accurately) I can pause to get a better pulse on the larger map. Otherwise, when running in a brawl or when being chased, I want to know up close and personal where everyone is that is shooting at me....or I can shoot at. Everything else in the heat of that moment is a distraction.

That sums up the minimap as a whole at this point in time to me....a distraction and not a help.

Cheers