238 replies to this topic

[Triordinant]

Russ says hotfix probably 5 pm tomorrow:

https://twitter.com/...427917040082944

[smokytehbear]

Gorgo7, on 21 June 2016 - 06:27 PM, said:

Dear OP,

HAHAHAHAHA!

See you next week!

Probably tomorrow afternoon. Cheers.

Triordinant, on 21 June 2016 - 06:27 PM, said:

Russ says hotfix probably 5 pm tomorrow:

https://twitter.com/...427917040082944

Indeed. Excellent news. Perhaps I can lay down this heavy pitchfork soon.

[Bluefalcon13]

I didn't call you all first graders.... I assumed everyone here has made it though first grade... therefore shouldve learned about maps...

I did say you all were acting like a lieutenant on a land-nav course though... it's really not as terrible as people are making it out to be. The fixed orientation is fine, the biggest problem is the lack of fidelity by being zoomed too far out without manual control of the zoom. As for not knowing where your torso is in relation to your feet... I don't know, I never used the map for that... I just remembered subconsciously which way my feet are pointing. I guess that could be an issue for some though...

[Lord0fHats]

I like the new level of detail on the minimap. Way easier to make out map geography.

It's just a shame it's kind of unusable. I can't even tell which directions my allies are moving, let alone their position relative to me while tightly packed. Russ does realize we already have ability to completely zoom out of the map right? B button?

[smokytehbear]

Bluefalcon13, on 21 June 2016 - 06:31 PM, said:

I didn't call you all first graders.... I assumed everyone here has made it though first grade... therefore shouldve learned about maps...

I did say you all were acting like a lieutenant on a land-nav course though... it's really not as terrible as people are making it out to be. The fixed orientation is fine, the biggest problem is the lack of fidelity by being zoomed too far out without manual control of the zoom. As for not knowing where your torso is in relation to your feet... I don't know, I never used the map for that... I just remembered subconsciously which way my feet are pointing. I guess that could be an issue for some though...

I was a boat guy, so I failed the only land nav course I took, and no one cared. So your analogy might actually hold water.

As a boat guy however, the map isn't tactical. We used relative and absolute bearings all the time but for different things. A "map" like this one was used for navigation, something you pretty much don't need in this game. A "plot" conversely was used for combat. It very much resembled what we had before. Trying to track enemies based off absolute angles (000 being north on a 360 circle) is cumbersome and if you did that with a fire control team you would be mocked and corrected at best, and responsible for a slow response to a torpedo and the subsequent death of 200 people at worst. Exaggeration maybe sure, but the point is, use the tools that make sense.

4 minimap aspects lost in this patch:
Relative Rotation
Effective Scale
Direction of legs vs. cone of vision
Doritos (Enemy/Friendly)

We're getting the first three of those back, so hopefully it will be usable again for its real purpose.

It's not so much that it couldn't be done the way it currently is, pre-hotfix. It's just an unnecessary chore, caused vertigo for some people, and overall reduced the fun many of us had playing the game. Top that off with: No one actually asked for this.

Either way, if it isn't headache-inducing anymore, I will be happy to once again play the game I love.

[Rkshz]

Triordinant, on 21 June 2016 - 06:27 PM, said:

Russ says hotfix probably 5 pm tomorrow:
https://twitter.com/...427917040082944

fix that? it impossible to fix - it's FUBAR

[JediPanther]

With how bad the new mini is count me in. I quit spending cash here a long time ago and was going to get the new catapult. I decided to see what the new patch broke and how bad before I went for the cat. So glad I tried playing a few matches before blowing money on pgi for a new hero. So many bad matches where one daka team just rolled over the other because the mini map and command wheel were so useless no one knew how to use either. As for holding you cross hair over a mech to use the enemy spotted command...well if would be great if i could use it but for some reason the mouse pointer twitches so bad to center on the middle of the command wheel's neutral area I just said **** it and turned on 3pv.

I happily spent the money I was going to use for the new catapult on myself buying pizza and beer.

[Livebait]

Great, I have to stop playing again for a couple of years. And WTF with the LIGHT mechs the size of HEAVIES!!!!!

PLz stop the crack smoking while brain storming new ideas.

[Pariah Devalis]

smokytehbear, on 21 June 2016 - 06:41 PM, said:

I was a boat guy, so I failed the only land nav course I took, and no one cared. So your analogy might actually hold water.

As a boat guy however, the map isn't tactical. We used relative and absolute bearings all the time but for different things. A "map" like this one was used for navigation, something you pretty much don't need in this game. A "plot" conversely was used for combat. It very much resembled what we had before. Trying to track enemies based off absolute angles (000 being north on a 360 circle) is cumbersome and if you did that with a fire control team you would be mocked and corrected at best, and responsible for a slow response to a torpedo and the subsequent death of 200 people at worst. Exaggeration maybe sure, but the point is, use the tools that make sense.

4 minimap aspects lost in this patch:
Relative Rotation
Effective Scale
Direction of legs vs. cone of vision
Doritos (Enemy/Friendly)

We're getting the first three of those back, so hopefully it will be usable again for its real purpose.

It's not so much that it couldn't be done the way it currently is, pre-hotfix. It's just an unnecessary chore, caused vertigo for some people, and overall reduced the fun many of us had playing the game. Top that off with: No one actually asked for this.

Either way, if it isn't headache-inducing anymore, I will be happy to once again play the game I love.

You know, it's funny. I find when I fly I actually like a fixed map, as opposed to a rotating one. Same thing with my phone's GPS, actually, when I drive my car. However, I also live in a grid based city, so be it by ground or by air I have a gigantic reference grid under me at all times.

However, I cannot stand the fixed map in MWO. At all.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 21 June 2016 - 07:01 PM.

[ZinnMeister]

HerrZinn is on that list as well.

[Lord0fHats]

I don't mind the fixed map. I'm actually used to it in most other games I play.

It's the scale that's the problem. It's not even a minimap right now. Just a map, and combined with the new icons it provides little useful information that I can't gain just by looking left and right. The situation where I actually need a minimap is in close brawls and fire lines, and right now the map is useless in those situations.

Edited by Lord0fHats, 21 June 2016 - 07:04 PM.

[PR1VATEER]

Go ahead and add me. I feel like a cadet playing again....WTF?

Bring on the Hotfix!!! What is ETA on it?

[Pariah Devalis]

PR1VATEER, on 21 June 2016 - 07:07 PM, said:

Go ahead and add me. I feel like a cadet playing again....WTF?

Bring on the Hotfix!!! What is ETA on it?

5 PM I believe. Their time.

https://mwomercs.com...ng-new-mini-map

This just up.

[Shiney]

Me

NO JUST NO!!!

- The lack of map orientation is disorienting and I would hate to think what a new player is going through!!
- It spoils those who sit back in a firing line, aka trench warfare and stalemates. The game is 'already' too static, giving more weight to that type of gameplay is only going to make poking almost impossible and we'll be looking for 1 kill and a count down on the clock
- in the middle of combat you need quick data not sitting looking at the map and figure out where your team are going, where the enemy are relative to you.
- EVERY single version of this game has had a radar orientation until now.
- change is not necessarily bad and I get that people are adverse to change, though this turns the game upside down, not tweaks it.

Edited by Shiney, 21 June 2016 - 07:13 PM.

[Wong Whey]

ADD
; Damageurcalm

P.s. Took longer to reply to this thread than the entire minimap dev team took to design the worthless "map"

[Moldur]

On the flip side, downgrading the minimap has had some other effects that people are not talking about.

Matches have been much more chaotic since the new minimap. People talk about all these weird systems to limit alphas, or limit pin point accuracy, etc. Teams are a lot more spread out due to the fact that icon scale vs the map is weird and people think they are close to teammates when they really aren't. Who knew that all it took to drastically change the game was to make the minimap less useful?

[Triordinant]

Latest details from Russ here:

https://mwomercs.com...ng-new-mini-map

Edited by Triordinant, 21 June 2016 - 07:21 PM.

[smokytehbear]

Triordinant, on 21 June 2016 - 07:20 PM, said:

Latest details from Russ here:

https://mwomercs.com...ng-new-mini-map

Thank you for linking this.

Looks sooooooooooooooooo much better.

[Shiney]

Moldur, on 21 June 2016 - 07:19 PM, said:

On the flip side, downgrading the minimap has had some other effects that people are not talking about.

Matches have been much more chaotic since the new minimap. People talk about all these weird systems to limit alphas, or limit pin point accuracy, etc. Teams are a lot more spread out due to the fact that icon scale vs the map is weird and people think they are close to teammates when they really aren't. Who knew that all it took to drastically change the game was to make the minimap less useful?

Well the smart ones, unable to make sense of the map, form firing lines and just wait for the enemy to stumble upon it. Aka trench warfare and stalemate when the other side do the same. Fast mechs need quick radar data and they're the ones that exploit holes in a line for the most part. You can 'deathball' sure, though against a firing line you'll be at a disadvantage. Whilst the patch is coming, as it is, the most likely tactical progression is the stalemate [sitting back] and we already have enough of that.

[Egg Fu]

smokytehbear, on 21 June 2016 - 07:23 PM, said:

Thank you for linking this.

Looks sooooooooooooooooo much better.

That looks SWEET!!!