60 replies to this topic

[Moonlight Grimoire]

Honestly the directional information wasn't that huge, poke, peak, watch for where fire is going out from, all tell you the same thing. Was it nice in certain situations? Yes, yes it was. Honestly though the reason why you are blocked from Russ is you aren't being constructive. Why wouldn't someone block another person who is being hostile without a modicum of helpful insight?

As it is, I am excited about infotech slowly being put into the game one part at a time (introducing minimal variables at once is key to making certain it doesn't completely implode). We are thankfully getting put to a better zoom level (still further out from what it was originally but it goes to the edge of sensor range which makes sense) and eventually getting a toggle between close and the full map. I think this is a step in the right direction and makes a place for scouting and role warfare which adds much needed depth.

[Random Carnage]

The new system is fine. I prefer less information freely handed out, and more focus on having to work for it.

[dervishx5]

Quote

http://i59.photobuck...zpsg5ymaloq.jpg

Edited by dervishx5, 22 June 2016 - 01:36 AM.

[BigJim]

Like bandito - I think that having to gain extra info to acquire target orientation (a dorito) is an interesting & probably a good idea.

I hated the new minimap, and (unusually for me) made no bones about kicking up a fuss, but that's because it was so confusing to try & read, so restrictive, and actively hindered your movement & navigation if you tried to use it.

However, once those aspects are fixed, I see nothing wrong with taking a tiny bit of the free lunch away and making people play the infotech game for such information.

Yes, I would often see a dorito in the next grid, and time my poke or my movement to coincide with the enemy dorito facing the wrong way - of course we did!
That's powerful information, and there's nothing wrong imo with making you have to work, or sacrifice something in return for such powerful information.

My issue was with the awful scale, the a**e-backwards orientation, and lack of your own viewing angle (which was essential for torso/leg orientation) - NOT - the lack of doritos.

Edited by BigJim, 22 June 2016 - 01:40 AM.

[BulletChief]

BigJim, on 22 June 2016 - 01:38 AM, said:

Like bandito - I think that having to gain extra info to acquire target orientation (a dorito) is an interesting & probably a good idea.

I hated the new minimap, and (unusually for me) made no bones about kicking up a fuss, but that's because it was so confusing to try & read, so restrictive, and actively hindered your movement & navigation if you tried to use it.

However, once those aspects are fixed, I see nothing wrong with taking a tiny bit of the free lunch away and making people play the infotech game for such information.

Yes, I would often see a dorito in the next grid, and time my poke or my movement to coincide with the enemy dorito facing the wrong way - of course we did!
That's powerful information, and there's nothing wrong imo with making you have to work, or sacrifice something in return for such powerful information.

My issue was with the awful scale, the a**e-backwards orientation, and lack of your own viewing angle (which was essential for torso/leg orientation) - NOT - the lack of doritos.

You had THREE ways to see your torso/leg orientation.
They took ONE away...

How bad are you that this is a problem...

[MischiefSC]

Info warfare is a good idea and restricting dorito access isn't a bad idea at all. It creates a value for scouts if you need scouts to actually effectively identify and track targets.

When every mech scouts for itself as well (or better) than someone else scouts for them then there's no use for scouts or roles at all.

[Haakon Magnusson]

BulletChief, on 22 June 2016 - 02:15 AM, said:

You had THREE ways to see your torso/leg orientation.
They took ONE away...

How bad are you that this is a problem...

This way just happens to be the one you need to pay attention constantly, so you are given leg orientation verification for free when keeping up to date with map. Not to mention a more usable indication on relative location of enemies on the minimap.

Doritos I can do away with, putting them to infowar bucket is a good thing. Yay for usable CCs (Or is it just specific mech/CC combos.. ?)

Edited by Haakon Magnusson, 22 June 2016 - 03:00 AM.

[Remover of Obstacles]

Please bring back the Doritos.

I would say that direction a mech is facing is more important than weight class most of the time.

That being said there is no reason we can't have both direction and weight class in a new Dorito. That would take four new icons. Which the new system uses.

Something that would be an actual improvement. . . .

[Docta Pain]

Flame me, too. I disagree with PGI's attempt at info warfare, including this step, probably stemming from the implementation of the distance stealth cloak technology. I just don't agree with what they're doing and how they're going about this. The good news, for you at least, is that you will soon have one less person like me to disagree with you. I've been playing less and less and not missing it. Maybe 10 games a month now down from 10 a day. I... just don't agree with what they've done to the game I founded.

[oldradagast]

Ugh... This is what happens when a company isn't sure how to add a feature to a game; they take a feature away to make you "work for it" and think they are clever.

Let's not kid ourselves - nobody is going to take a TAG, UAV, or Command Console just to get the dorito markers. They may take them for other reasons - reasons that already exist (which means nobody will take the worthless Command Console), but long story short, this change just means "no more doritos" most of the time.

Is it a bad thing? Meh... I can't say I depend upon enemy doritos for anything, so I don't care that much. On the other hand, this is hardly the start of "real info war" because the benefit of "getting the info" is still far less than being able to DO something with it, such as destroy your opponent's mech.

Edited by oldradagast, 22 June 2016 - 03:20 AM.

[vocifer]

oldradagast, on 22 June 2016 - 03:19 AM, said:

Let's not kid ourselves - nobody is going to take a TAG, UAV, or Command Console just to get the dorito markers.

Nobody in pugland.

I can easily see one dedicated mech for CC in organized drop. As I was constantly seeing mechs with "worthless AMS" in CW (IS had some problems with ECM-chassis variety some time ago).

Depends on the quality of markers though.

[AnTi90d]

oldradagast, on 22 June 2016 - 03:19 AM, said:

Let's not kid ourselves - nobody is going to take a TAG, UAV, or Command Console just to get the dorito markers... long story short, this change just means "no more doritos" most of the time.

Alas, poor doritos. I knew them well, Horacio..

#DoritoNazi

[Marmon Rzohr]

What bugs me with the change is the fact that it's the tier 5-3 PUGs that need the doritos the most, but **** them right ?

Honestly how can people disagree with the fact that the doritos made the minimap easier to read and understand - and that that is a good thing. The LAST thing this game needs is to become more obtuse. That's just not fun.

Before someone inevitably mentions adapting... Of course you can adapt. I'll adapt. Any experienced player will adapt. This however does not answer two problems:

1) Why should players adapt to a system that is worse ?
2) Why would you want to make the game worse for new players ?

vocifer, on 22 June 2016 - 03:38 AM, said:

Nobody in pugland.

I can easily see one dedicated mech for CC in organized drop. As I was constantly seeing mechs with "worthless AMS" in CW (IS had some problems with ECM-chassis variety some time ago).

Depends on the quality of markers though.

I actually think organized/comp drops are less likely to waste tonnage on stuff like that.

Edited by Marmon Rzohr, 22 June 2016 - 04:11 AM.

[Magnus Santini]

It is precisely as if they replaced existing weapon systems with muzzle loaders (through existing useless CASE component). To fire, merely peek around corner to highlight target in sights, enabling click-to-load, press button to remove safety, and release to fire. If you lose lock, cooldown and repeat a-la-gauss. Actually, this would probably be required to protect lights from the useless extra peek requirement and reduced situational awareness. The whole thing would be better replaced by downgrading intel systems on bigger mechs so they need a light mech to lock a target to display target info for mediums, be lockable to heavies, and be -at all visible- to the assaults. Voila, role warfare, info warfare and increased TTK. You may have to adapt, etc, but most players never really used those visual firing systems on assaults, anyway.

[TexAce]

The change is fine.

[Johnny Z]

I like the direction this is going. This is minor details and polish to an element of game play only, but I like it. As far as I am concerned enemy player names shouldn't be in the pre match screen either. Things like this add to atmosphere and intensity and are relatively easy to do.

[Thorn Hallis]

Thinking about it...after the Cyclops and it's special info system maybe we'll see another new 'Mech that has the effects of UAV, TAG, CC and so on?

[BoPop]

the new minimap is virtually irrelevant. I spent most of the night trying to learn how not to look at it. I heard suggested a 'post-it' note. I considered it. I mean, I seriously considered putting a post it not there. for real. yea...

I wouldn't mind not having the doritos if I could at least zoom the thing in and out, it made finding my lance mates more difficult, the whole thing just feels like one big fat step backwards in development.

if my truck had no air conditioning, an oil leak and a bad plug I sure as hell wouldn't be taking it to the body shop to get painted candy apple red... that's how this minimap feels. or weirder, like they broke something by trying to fix something that wasn't broken. tres bizarre.

as far as doritos go... meh, that's not 'super' important, I could deal without them. and it would be interesting if the dorito only appeared as a sort of target info gathering scout geek reward or what have you.

[Johnny Z]

BoPop, on 22 June 2016 - 04:57 AM, said:

the new minimap is virtually irrelevant. I spent most of the night trying to learn how not to look at it. I heard suggested a 'post-it' note. I considered it. I mean, I seriously considered putting a post it not there. for real. yea...

I wouldn't mind not having the doritos if I could at least zoom the thing in and out, it made finding my lance mates more difficult, the whole thing just feels like one big fat step backwards in development.

if my truck had no air conditioning, an oil leak and a bad plug I sure as hell wouldn't be taking it to the body shop to get painted candy apple red... that's how this minimap feels. or weirder, like they broke something by trying to fix something that wasn't broken. tres bizarre.

as far as doritos go... meh, that's not 'super' important, I could deal without them. and it would be interesting if the dorito only appeared as a sort of target info gathering scout geek reward or what have you.

It was explained on the launcher.... Ya its a pain for a day. Big deal. It could have crashed the game and been a serious issue.

This entire thing makes MechWarrior players look silly, and maybe that's the goal.

[Jetfire]

Taking away Doritos without additional support such as NARC, UAV or TAG makes perfect sense to me. How did you magically know which way every mech was facing just by being within sensor range?