47 replies to this topic

[xX PUG Xx]

I like that you have put so much energy into this Danjo San, however I think the majority of the complaints stem from the same source: a lack of immersion from the game mode in general.

The argument of wait times, unit sizes, skill (or other form of "balance") based matchmaking are all driven by low population: with enough population these mainly become non-issues. The majority of the playerbase appear to be at either one end of the spectrum of not finding the mode engaging enough or at the other with not finding it accessible enough.

There are those, like myself, that play the mode because it offers longer actual combat time per game. Adding in-depth features such as economies, strategic planning for JumpShip travel and Dropship deployments, supply lines and.....well an ACTUAL immersive strategic side to the game would not actual encourage the average player to try the mode. This level of play is aimed at unit leaders, the average Joe MechWarrior is only interested in where to get the next drop and how long will it take to get into the fight.

So while making FP more immersive would make it more interesting overall, it would not alleviate the primary problem we are seeing: low population numbers. Now adding more interesting variations of the available game modes (the Asymmetric mode mentioned in the Town Hall or perhaps one of the MANY modes/missions suggested over the years) may prove to be the lure that draws in the crowds.

I believe PGI should focus on map creation, alongside expanding on the game mode variations available in FP (something I hope was behind the decision to hire extra map designers). As this should provide the quickest route to getting more players into the mode and having a hope of keeping them interested outside of events.

Anyway, enough babble from me.... I'm going to have a quick game and go to bed before I pass out.

[Red Shrike]

If only the maps were bigger and not full of chokepoints.

[Danjo San]

xX PUG Xx, on 22 June 2016 - 11:19 PM, said:

The argument of wait times, unit sizes, skill (or other form of "balance") based matchmaking are all driven by low population: with enough population these mainly become non-issues. The majority of the playerbase appear to be at either one end of the spectrum of not finding the mode engaging enough or at the other with not finding it accessible enough.

There are those, like myself, that play the mode because it offers longer actual combat time per game.

Yes I agree, with a high population all of it would be no issue. However we have a low population and so we need to adress these issues...

Personally, I like CW much more than Quick Play Grinds. Overall Playstyle is much more structured and organized and Matches take longer. I have no problem with the small Choke Maps. And I have to say I love the Scouting Mode.
I play Loyalist for Liao, I have reached the end of the "Loyalty Rewards" long before Phase 3 hit. And I still continue to play for Liao. Not only for Lore and my Unit but also because we need Loyalists to be in FP, the Innersphere would be a horrible mess if all players went Merc. I play for an underpopulated faction, because if we left the population would decline here even further.
I don't care about Planetary Rewards, or Loyalty Rewards... Getting a good Match is rewarding enough for me. And all I hope for is an incline in population overall so wait times are reduced and matches are found more easy

[Sjorpha]

It's a nice poll, here are some alternatives I'm missing though.

What is the main problem in FP?

- Lack of global win conditions and long term objectives for the factions.
- No strategic impact of taking planets or taking one planet over the other.
- No in-game tools for Diplomatic/political/strategic cooperation.

Those are my three main gripes with FW, and none of them are in the poll

In order to achieve a balanced distribution of players PGI should...

- Limit faction size with a cap.

Should Faction play be gated?

- Yes, trial mechs should be unavailable for faction play.

Edited by Sjorpha, 23 June 2016 - 03:31 AM.

[Danjo San]

Sjorpha, on 23 June 2016 - 03:27 AM, said:

It's a nice poll, here are some alternatives I'm missing though.

What is the main problem in FP?

- Lack of global win conditions and long term objectives for the factions.
- No strategic impact of taking planets or taking one planet over the other.
- No in-game tools for Diplomatic/political/strategic cooperation.

Those are my three main gripes with FW, and none of them are in the poll

In order to achieve a balanced distribution of players PGI should...

- Limit faction size with a cap.

Should Faction play be gated?

- Yes, trial mechs should be unavailable for faction play.

maybe i missed them in a thread, maybe you have not issued them yet publicly

[Rebas Kradd]

OP, I don't think there's really any question that the primary issue is low population. Every other problem can basically be traced back to that.

So if I may say, the question really should have been, "what's causing low population?" The answer is a general lack of depth and interest. It's the same repetitive gamemode over and over, on the same ridiculously restrictive maps. Which is why I voted for the chokepoint problem. Nobody wants to keep coming back for that endless poke-poke-and-die business.

[Nightmare1]

Nicely done, Danjo!

[Danjo San]

Rebas Kradd, on 23 June 2016 - 03:24 PM, said:

OP, I don't think there's really any question that the primary issue is low population. Every other problem can basically be traced back to that.

So if I may say, the question really should have been, "what's causing low population?" The answer is a general lack of depth and interest. It's the same repetitive gamemode over and over, on the same ridiculously restrictive maps. Which is why I voted for the chokepoint problem. Nobody wants to keep coming back for that endless poke-poke-and-die business.

We never had a high population to begin with
So I would say yes and no. Yes regarding to the population of FW compared to the entire active Playerbase. Lack of depth and so on may be one of the issues. And No, because PGI is not advertising the game actively enough to pull in new Players, certain issues get fixed super fast, where as others have been repeatedly addressed and nothing changes, etc...
I enjoy the Maps, I enjoy using unconventional tactics, I enjoy how the Quirks change the dynamics of FW. Choke Point System does not bother me.
I do like your proposal for bigger maps with more lanes and lance warfare, I'd love to see those implemented as well, not just replace the choke maps, If we had both we'd have more variety.
Read your proposal and listened to the talk you had with Kanajashi. Props... 07

[Danjo San]

https://youtu.be/elRxbGJuCw8

[Rebas Kradd]

Danjo San, on 23 June 2016 - 11:45 PM, said:

We never had a high population to begin with
So I would say yes and no. Yes regarding to the population of FW compared to the entire active Playerbase. Lack of depth and so on may be one of the issues. And No, because PGI is not advertising the game actively enough to pull in new Players, certain issues get fixed super fast, where as others have been repeatedly addressed and nothing changes, etc...
I enjoy the Maps, I enjoy using unconventional tactics, I enjoy how the Quirks change the dynamics of FW. Choke Point System does not bother me.
I do like your proposal for bigger maps with more lanes and lance warfare, I'd love to see those implemented as well, not just replace the choke maps, If we had both we'd have more variety.
Read your proposal and listened to the talk you had with Kanajashi. Props... 07

Thanks for your support. Feel free to give the gamemode proposal some publicity.

[Danjo San]

Rebas Kradd, on 24 June 2016 - 06:46 AM, said:

Thanks for your support. Feel free to give the gamemode proposal some publicity.

Will do.

[justcallme A S H]

Danjo San, on 22 June 2016 - 11:12 AM, said:

It's an overall impression of what I have followed up on reading and discussing in the forums, obviously I have not read every thread or every answer, I doubt anyone has...
Also keep in mind that answers and solutions listed in a poll should be short. to go fully in detail with everything would be too much...
Also it should not be the Community conducting the Polls... PGI should be doing that!

No, it's largely the stuff you think is relevant.

I've seen you post in some threads that have excellent idea/suggestions, you disagree, and thus the options are not there.

Particularly the stuff around unit sizes. The larger units have essentially stopped playing/being active because of the single attack planet per phase. PGI wants units, but it's made any decently active one above 40-45 players essentially unable to play. That's what has killed the population first and foremost and should be reflected in the poll options.

A true "POLL" would be unbias and your bias against large units is well evident.

Edited by R31Nismoid, 25 June 2016 - 02:22 AM.

[Danjo San]

R31Nismoid, on 25 June 2016 - 01:27 AM, said:

No, it's largely the stuff you think is relevant.

I've seen you post in some threads that have excellent idea/suggestions, you disagree, and thus the options are not there.

Particularly the stuff around unit sizes. The larger units have essentially stopped playing/being active because of the single attack planet per phase. PGI wants units, but it's made any decently active one above 40-45 players essentially unable to play. That's what has killed the population first and foremost and should be reflected in the poll options.

A true "POLL" would be unbias and your bias against large units is well evident.

yes i have a problem with large units. As they are keeping many from playing FW. Is my poll biased? I dont rhink so. ... i have included many points that do not support my personal point of view.

[justcallme A S H]

How are they keeping you from playing when large units like MS/228 are barely dropping in FP currently compared to BEFORE FP3 where they were super active.

It doesn't take a genius to work it out.

You're straight up bias against large units needs to stop because it's not the problem and thus this 'poll' isn't really helping the community. As much as you'd like to think you're being helpful, you clearly do not understand the actual issues.
This 'poll' is likely an attempt to get asked to a round table, I hope you get totally overlooked or MWO will be even worse off with your input.

Edited by R31Nismoid, 26 June 2016 - 12:08 AM.

[Danjo San]

R31Nismoid, on 25 June 2016 - 08:33 PM, said:

How are they keeping you from playing when large units like MS/228 are barely dropping in FP currently compared to BEFORE FP3 where they were super active.

It doesn't take a genius to work it out.

You're straight up bias against large units needs to stop because it's not the problem and thus this 'poll' isn't really helping the community. As much as you'd like to think you're being helpful, you clearly do not understand the actual issues.
This 'poll' is likely an attempt to get asked to a round table, I hope you get totally overlooked or MWO will be even worse off with your input.

I have messages on my phone from players stating that they have no motivation to play CW because no matter how much effort the group puts in a larger group passes them and takes all the credit. It's not always an issue that you are facing a 12 man.... Look at it from this POV you get a Team motivated to "invest" their playing time in Cw. You go to a 0/0 planet start calling in the enemy. Do that for a couple of Rounds. Get a couple of wins. Around this time a larger unit gets wind of your effort kicking off matches on a 0/0 Planet. They now double or triple your numbers. The small unit continues to drop, gets a bunch of ghostdrops, but continues to get back in line because they want the tag. Keep the players motivated to do ghostdrop after ghostdrop because the enemies you called can not hold up against the 3-4 Dropships attacking. Ceasefire hits after all that time and effort the small unit put in, nothing. Planet goes to the larger unit.
A week later they try that again. Same result. A week later again. The same again.
Invasion they managed to start. Incentive is drained by the impression they get, No matter what you do, no matter how much you drop, you can get all wins all evening. The planet always goes to the same unit, because at any given time they can field double or triple the amount of your unit. There is no motivator in end game content Fw for units who cannot compete in the numbers game and so they stop dropping. It is a real thing

[justcallme A S H]

What does messages on your phone have to do with the reality?

Look at smaller units like KCom, 420, EVIL etc.

They are not a 200-300 strong unit like MS/228/TCAF etc etc. In fact the units mentioned earlier are what, 30-40max? and by your own definition, the "right" size.

Yet these small units have as much impact on FP3 as units 10x their size, yes TEN TIMES SMALLER units are doing very well... Why? Because size does not matter.

If my unit drops with a 8-man+ for 4-5 hours, we generally take a planet. It's a simple numbers game. That said it's not a 100% guarantee but it is more than likely and that is a fact because that is what's happened.

So please stop spouting your own bias so the community can look past this utterly blinded point of view that big units are the issue with FP, because they quite simply are not the problem toy make them out to be.

[Mech Amphetamine]

Quote

What does messages on your phone have to do with the reality?

That means he knows other Players in Person who share his opinion on this topic.

As for your point about smaller Units; yes quality weighs more than quantity if getting a win is your Goal. BUT, if a smaller yet better unit attacks a planet with a 12-man Premade, and a Bigger Unit hops in with 4x12 Premades (yes i know, rarely happens). The bigger Unit will get the Tag, even if the smaller Unit wins every game.

There for I am for Splitting the Giant Units so everyone has the Chance to place their Tag once in a while.

[TheLuc]

only way to vote with PGI is with the wallet.

[Felio]

Whoa. Thank you for putting all this together. I don't know how useful PGI will think it is, but I like it. Kudos on the effort.

[M A N T I S]

I think you missed the main problem: There is no way to actually win faction warfare at all. There needs to be a win mechanism for each faction, a reward for the faction that wins, and an automatic map reset. Maybe something that involves Terra or whatever.

I think it's funny that everyone is "trying to bring meaning to FW" by tweaking this and modifying that... and it's all beyond the point. For any game to have a meaning, it must be able to be won by definable criteria. Yet, putting a winnable condition on FW isn't even on your list.

EDIT: Damn... I responded before reading the full thread. I see Sjorpha beat me to it. I agree with it, obviously.

Edited by M A N T I S, 29 June 2016 - 05:18 AM.