161 replies to this topic

[Novakaine]

Alistair Winter, on 23 June 2016 - 01:00 AM, said:

The forum has an awful lot of people who think this game only got worse and worse for the last 4 years, who would rather amputate a limb than spend money on it, who feel lthe game isn't really worth playing at all... yet post here every day and typically respond within 10 minutes if someone quotes them on the forum.

What the hell are you guys doing? Go read some books, learn how to play the guitar, find new computer games. Life is short. If this is a sinking ship, isn't there something else you'd rather be doing?

You know Winters I think some of us think if they can manage to drive off players, piss off the devs to the point of saying F' it.
The game will be in a better place if some other game company picks it up.
As if that really gonna happen.
Now does PGI make me just wanna bang my head on a wall?
Yes they sure in the hell do.
But if people really hate this game so much just do something else.
There is nothing keeping them here.

[RussianWolf]

QuantumButler, on 23 June 2016 - 06:57 AM, said:

A statement that should make any intelligent MWO player very, very scared for the future of this game.

agreed. If my wallet wasn't already closed due to the lack of progress on content (mechpacks excluded), I would have closed it when he started showing up drunk at town halls and saying things like this.

[QuantumButler]

Novakaine, on 23 June 2016 - 06:58 AM, said:

You know Winters I think some of us think if they can manage to drive off players, piss off the devs to the point of saying F' it.
The game will be in a better place if some other game company picks it up.
As if that really gonna happen.
Now does PGI make me just wanna bang my head on a wall?
Yes they sure in the hell do.
But if people really hate this game so much just do something else.
There is nothing keeping them here.

This game would be in a far better place if Perfect World took it over, and that's a sad state of affairs.

[Mawai]

bLeeat, on 23 June 2016 - 12:46 AM, said:

pointing out my opinion or your opinion is just silly, thats what the forums are for...opinions...

this patch was a game changer?how exactly? mechs are smaller but people are still playing the same, so please explain to me how its changed the game.

i like forzen city too. but why couldnt they keep the old one as well?

monetize? hasnt that all they been doing with their mech sales? and not even developing the game? but you clearly must be a new player to say such a thing as "pgi delivered".

I generally agree with your comments ... but

"hasnt that all they been doing with their mech sales? and not even developing the game?"

There are clear reasons for this situation ...

1) Mech sales bring in direct revenues. There is a clear link that can be identified by accountants between spending on art assets (artists etc) and revenues.

2) PGI has always focused on the art aspects due to revenues. The art department has always been at least twice the
headcount or more of the folks doing game development.

3) Just a couple of years ago, the PGI game developers consisted of 6 to 8 people doing everything ... UI, Server, netcode, game features, faction warfare, matchmaker etc ... I think it was something like two UI design, two game developer, two server engineers ... though they were used somewhat interchangeably depending on project focus. Anyway, the point is that PGI has always been very under-invested in the game development side. This is why development work takes so long and the game evolves so slowly.

I think the main reason for under investment in game development is because they can't prove the link between a better game, long term player retention and thus greater revenues. A better game keeps folks more interested, keeps them coming back and presumably spending money ... it is the "presumably" that I believe has throttled game development by PGI to the current slow pace. The question remains whether they can build up the feature set in MWO over time such that player retention will gradually improve while they keep expenses on this aspect of game development to a minimum. So far, the game has improved a lot over four years ... the question though is whether they have damaged their reputation too much by slow feature development that they will be unable to attract the players that have already left or cut back both playing and spending.

[Mystere]

mailin, on 23 June 2016 - 05:20 AM, said:

1) We don't know if PGI has a plan for how they would eventually like the minimap to work and look considering info warfare, as well as other features. This could be a step along the way and for whatever reason the old minimap maybe didn't work with their overall vision.

And this has been the problem all along: lack of communication. They could have explained beforehand why they were changing the mini-map the way they did. But no, they just dumped it on everyone and then gave their explanation after the massive outburst.

They never seem to learn.

[Lily from animove]

CK16, on 23 June 2016 - 06:11 AM, said:

The amount of salt in this thread is almost a threat to any local ecosystem and could cause years of crop failure o.O..

salt is business



salt is life

Edited by Lily from animove, 23 June 2016 - 08:29 AM.

[RussianWolf]

Novakaine, on 23 June 2016 - 06:58 AM, said:

You know Winters I think some of us think if they can manage to drive off players, piss off the devs to the point of saying F' it.
The game will be in a better place if some other game company picks it up.
As if that really gonna happen.
Now does PGI make me just wanna bang my head on a wall?
Yes they sure in the hell do.
But if people really hate this game so much just do something else.
There is nothing keeping them here.

I play because its the only Mechwarrior game that's really available right now. But my faith in PGI's abilities can't get much lower at this point.

And the "It's a small company" excuse is just that.... an excuse. Small companies can do amazing things. But they have to have great leadership and communicate with their customers to do it.

[RussianWolf]

Lily from animove, on 23 June 2016 - 07:04 AM, said:

salt is buisness



salt is life

That ain't snow in Frozen City



Just to be clear... this is a view of one of the salt storage lots in Cleveland Ohio. Awesome perspective shot.

Edited by RussianWolf, 23 June 2016 - 07:20 AM.

[Mystere]

Johnny Z, on 23 June 2016 - 04:56 AM, said:

Although some pretty major features, some entirely new to the industry and ground breaking, have been added steadily.

I think you're going to have to give examples because I am currently drawing blanks.

[RedDragon]

mailin, on 23 June 2016 - 04:23 AM, said:

To those of you who say "PGI never listens to the community!" think about what just happened. PGI did something they obviously thought was going to work. It didn't and the community let PGI know. Within 48 hours they fixed what they had done.

Just to get some perspective here: The community tries to get PGI to do meaningful things for years now, be it map design, new player experience, balance ... And PGI just plucks their figners into their ears and goes "Lalala, I can't hear you!"

And now they brake something that didn't need fixing and no one wanted fixed, and it needs a massive uproar from the community and MANY players who threatened to quit playing to make them reverse that change.

That's not listening to the community, that's royally f*cking up and then going into damage control mode before no one is left to pay any money.

[Bud Crue]

CK16, on 23 June 2016 - 06:38 AM, said:

Yet again...why! You go off saying this sucks! With no reasons besides something you don't like....keep calm now, no need to type a full rage novel....spell it out...WHAT DO YOU WANT PGI TO DO! Keep it realistic too, meaning cost, time, man power, ect....

I don't honestly care what they do in re game play mechanisms (Yes I thought the minimap change was abhorrent and stupid but I would have learned to live with it). As long as this game has a whiff of BattleTech, I will likely play it. All I want from PGI is for them to stop lying and/or insulting its customers...and that is perhaps really just an issue for Russ more than PGI as a whole.

Lehmund, on 23 June 2016 - 06:52 AM, said:

All the whining with no point attached is a waste of time.

We can help improve the game here, let's use that time to do exactly that.

In re your first line that I quoted above: Well yeah. This is the forums.

In re your second line: the only time I have seen actual acknowledgement from PGI of even the existence of this community let alone that it is actually being responsive to it, is when that community goes utterly ballistic over the latest bit of goofiness that PGI has decided to dump in and call a fix or a feature (see flammer fix versions 1 and 2, see queue split following P3, see long tom nerf, see Russ allowing MS to break contract prematurely and resulting out cry, see minimap fiasco...these are just the ones that come quickly to mind in the last year). Given that history, and the fact that Russ has already told us that our input is not welcome, I would really like to know how "we can help improve the game here".

Novakaine, on 23 June 2016 - 06:58 AM, said:

You know Winters I think some of us think if they can manage to drive off players, piss off the devs to the point of saying F' it.
The game will be in a better place if some other game company picks it up.
As if that really gonna happen.
Now does PGI make me just wanna bang my head on a wall?
Yes they sure in the hell do.
But if people really hate this game so much just do something else.
There is nothing keeping them here.

And this sums it all up nicely. Hate on the game and PGI all you want, but the reality is: this is what we are stuck with. When PGI folds there will in all likelihood not be another MWO with an fps aspect. There is too much bad press, too much baggage with the IP, and its player base is too damn niche (old). So if you like playing -or even if you just play for some sort of masochistic reason- remember that when the money stops, so does the game. Accept that or move on, but expecting things to get better without a cash flow into PGI is an illusion regardless of how stupid you think PGI and its development of this game is.

[GRiPSViGiL]

Frechdachs, on 23 June 2016 - 12:54 AM, said:

I went to bed frustrated with a mini map that often made me run face-first into the nearest wall or mountainside, I woke up and they had fixed it. Sweet. They fixed the functionality of a feature overnight because we asked for it 0.o

Yeah, I'm spending money.

They break something that never needed messed with then fix it over night and that is your justification for giving them money? PGI take note you have idiots playing your game you can dupe or strongarm into giving you money by simply breaking things that aren't broken and then fixing them in a timely manner.

GG. Well played PGI.

[Lily from animove]

RussianWolf, on 23 June 2016 - 07:11 AM, said:

That ain't snow in Frozen City



Just to be clear... this is a view of one of the salt storage lots in Cleveland Ohio. Awesome perspective shot.

what happens when it raisn there? or does it never do that?

[Novakaine]

Good thing I'm a idiot with disposable income

Edited by Novakaine, 23 June 2016 - 07:58 AM.

[GRiPSViGiL]

Alistair Winter, on 23 June 2016 - 01:00 AM, said:

The forum has an awful lot of people who think this game only got worse and worse for the last 4 years, who would rather amputate a limb than spend money on it, who feel lthe game isn't really worth playing at all... yet post here every day and typically respond within 10 minutes if someone quotes them on the forum.

What the hell are you guys doing? Go read some books, learn how to play the guitar, find new computer games. Life is short. If this is a sinking ship, isn't there something else you'd rather be doing?

Well as someone active on the forums in this way I will answer that.

My priorities go like this. Family, Work, Gym, Hobbies which include flag football, PC games, MMA, Basketball among other things. I do have and play the guitar, just a hack and not very good but I do play sometimes. When participation in family, work, gym is not required I play a few other games that range from BF4, ARK, Hearthstone, and I just picked up Orion and I am waiting for Crowfall to release most likely close to the end of the year.

At work I can peruse the forums while I handle my tasks easily enough and while playing games I can peruse the forums on my streaming PC during fleeting moments of downtime. I stay current of the games situation because I foolishly expended the most discretionary income I have ever done even eclipsing what over 5 years of a WoW subscription I once had cost. Which at the time due to PGIs plan of building the 4 pillars I deemed PGI worthy. More power to them that I over-zealously wanted to support that vision. The money is gone and that is that but I spend much more annually on playing PC games than I gave to PGI that is for sure and it is lovely knowing they don't get my piece of that pie anymore due to them not holding up their end. I do have the minuscule hope that something is done that I can recoup the enjoyment I lost from the game remaining virtually the same since 12v12 was released. I did have a lot of fun playing this game up until CW was first released when I saw my mistake.

So it isn't like I am wasting much time or energy participating at the level I want to in the forums in the slim chance something changes that can hook me again. I did update and cruise around the training grounds to see what the minimap looked like and to be honest it didn't bother me at all but it bothered enough people I supported them on that issue.

Since you asked.

[RussianWolf]

Lily from animove, on 23 June 2016 - 07:50 AM, said:

what happens when it raisn there? or does it never do that?

you would need heavy rains for a LOOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNGGGGGGGG time to melt that much salt. But municipalities usually have covered storage areas around the area.

For comparison.... Ocean Water is about 3% salt. The Dead Sea is about 34% salt and is getting saltier since the major inflow , the Jordan, has had most of its flow diverted for human use.

[Lily from animove]

Mawai, on 23 June 2016 - 07:00 AM, said:

I generally agree with your comments ... but

"hasnt that all they been doing with their mech sales? and not even developing the game?"

There are clear reasons for this situation ...

1) Mech sales bring in direct revenues. There is a clear link that can be identified by accountants between spending on art assets (artists etc) and revenues.

2) PGI has always focused on the art aspects due to revenues. The art department has always been at least twice the
headcount or more of the folks doing game development.

3) Just a couple of years ago, the PGI game developers consisted of 6 to 8 people doing everything ... UI, Server, netcode, game features, faction warfare, matchmaker etc ... I think it was something like two UI design, two game developer, two server engineers ... though they were used somewhat interchangeably depending on project focus. Anyway, the point is that PGI has always been very under-invested in the game development side. This is why development work takes so long and the game evolves so slowly.

I think the main reason for under investment in game development is because they can't prove the link between a better game, long term player retention and thus greater revenues. A better game keeps folks more interested, keeps them coming back and presumably spending money ... it is the "presumably" that I believe has throttled game development by PGI to the current slow pace. The question remains whether they can build up the feature set in MWO over time such that player retention will gradually improve while they keep expenses on this aspect of game development to a minimum. So far, the game has improved a lot over four years ... the question though is whether they have damaged their reputation too much by slow feature development that they will be unable to attract the players that have already left or cut back both playing and spending.

it was IGP that said maps don'T bring revenue and thats why they didn't wanted to make new. and they also said soemthign about costing 250k per map. After IGP was flushed out, many new maps appeared.

RussianWolf, on 23 June 2016 - 08:25 AM, said:

you would need heavy rains for a LOOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNGGGGGGGG time to melt that much salt. But municipalities usually have covered storage areas around the area.

For comparison.... Ocean Water is about 3% salt. The Dead Sea is about 34% salt and is getting saltier since the major inflow , the Jordan, has had most of its flow diverted for human use.

sure but wouldn't every rain eman some of the salt is lost? or is that just negliable low? Doens't that also go into earht? or is there a conrete base to prevet this (or is that above a giant salt lyer anyways?)

[BigBenn]

The blatant immaturity rearing its ugly head in this thread is saddening. Also, the lack of knowledge and understanding of what it takes to implement changes to a game like MWO, maintain balance, improve features, and keep enough binkies handy for the crybabies if far greater than ANY of you anti-PGI bandwagoners can fathom.

I appreciate their efforts and their willingness to listen, they've done this game a lot of good. It isn't perfect and they've not claimed it to be. It will forever be a work in progress. Understand that and you'll be free to enjoy the game play.

Again... as I've said in other crybaby threads: I'm glad I bought stock in Keenex the day the patch was released.

[GRiPSViGiL]

mailin, on 23 June 2016 - 04:23 AM, said:

To those of you who say "PGI never listens to the community!" think about what just happened. PGI did something they obviously thought was going to work. It didn't and the community let PGI know. Within 48 hours they fixed what they had done.

No this game isn't perfect, but PGI is NOT EA or Blizzard. Also, look at the massive changes that they have done this last patch. The resized a LOT of mechs AND came out with a new map. Think about the amount of hours that this would require. I personally can't wait to see what the next big change that PGI implements is. If it turns out that we don't like the change, if the community lets PGI know and the recent past is any indicator, PGI will tweak it until it's right.

I have played EA and Blizzard games and spent a ton of money doing it and never once felt like PGI has made me feel.

Take that to the bank PGI.

[RedDragon]

BigBenn, on 23 June 2016 - 08:39 AM, said:

The blatant immaturity rearing its ugly head in this thread is saddening. Also, the lack of knowledge and understanding of what it takes to implement changes to a game like MWO, maintain balance, improve features, and keep enough binkies handy for the crybabies if far greater than ANY of you anti-PGI bandwagoners can fathom.

Sooo ... care to enlighten us?