87 replies to this topic

[DivBy0]

For the most player this is not longer a problem at all. After [Long Tom] is scouted, the invasionmode is dead. No one who is sane drop against [Long Tom] an anything else you can do with your life time is better the playing against it.

How many player stop playing CW in reaction to [Long Tom] at all?
How many possible new CW players have [Long Tom] driven out of the game mode forever?

Edited by draiocht, 09 July 2016 - 10:24 AM.
edited out vulgarity

[General Bedlam]

von Haudegen, on 25 June 2016 - 06:15 AM, said:

For the most player this is not longer a problem at all. After [Long Tom] is scouted, the invasionmode is dead. No one who is sane drop against [Long Tom] an anything else you can do with your life time is better the playing against it.

How many player stop playing CW in reaction to [Long Tom] at all?
How many possible new CW players have [Long Tom] driven out of the game mode forever?

But that IS the problem: if a "feature" stops or discourages players from playing a mode, then it is a problem.

Edited by draiocht, 09 July 2016 - 10:25 AM.
Quote Clean-Up

[DivBy0]

I think you are absolutly right, but it seems the PGI love to drop A-Bombs on their playerbase.
[Long Tom] is so terrible stupid... and as long as the scouting mode ist unbalanced, their is absolutly no sense in coordinate scouting against it..... welcome to QP :-(

General Bedlam, on 25 June 2016 - 06:18 AM, said:

But that IS the problem: if a "feature" stops or discourages players from playing a mode, then it is a problem.

Edited by draiocht, 09 July 2016 - 10:25 AM.
edited out vulgarity

[General Bedlam]

von Haudegen, on 25 June 2016 - 06:28 AM, said:

I think you are absolutly right, but it seems the PGI love to drop A-Bombs on their playerbase.
[Long Tom] is so terrible stupid... and as long as the scouting mode ist unbalanced, their is absolutly no sense in coordinate scouting against it..... welcome to QP :-(

Scout mode is unbalanced? Please elaborate.

Edited by draiocht, 09 July 2016 - 10:25 AM.
Quote Clean-Up

[DivBy0]

There are several threads to this topic.
The IS Pugs lose the scout war against the Clan Pugs in Streak- and Pulsecrows. And so 99% of the time ID, Satelite and [Long Tom] is on the Clan side.
But i know... the claner and many mercs will not see that point. So for me the Scouting-Mode is a dead horse too. Good idea but with 55 tons and that ugly IS medium trials any second spend on this game mode ist wasted.

And please give me no advice how to kill a Skillcrow... I have slain hundereds of them.

General Bedlam, on 25 June 2016 - 06:31 AM, said:

Scout mode is unbalanced? Please elaborate.

Edited by draiocht, 09 July 2016 - 10:25 AM.
edited out vulgarity

[General Bedlam]

von Haudegen, on 25 June 2016 - 06:51 AM, said:

There are several threads to this topic.
The IS Pugs lose the scout war against the Clan Pugs in Streak- and Pulsecrows. And so 99% of the time ID, Satellite and [Long Tom] is on the Clan side.
But i know... the clanner and many mercs will not see that point. So for me the Scouting-Mode is a dead horse too. Good idea but with 55 tons and that ugly IS medium trials any second spend on this game mode is wasted.

And please give me no advice how to kill a Skillcrow... I have slain hundreds of them.

So it is not that the mode is unbalanced, it is more that the player base (skill) is unbalanced for your particular timezone/play window. This is something that could only be helped by "gating" the mode or not allowing the current IS Trial 'Mechs into it.

Perhaps a suggestion thread should be put forward to find IS Trial 'Mechs that could be useful in Scout as well as the other general modes. Hunchback 4SP is one that springs to mind; easy to pilot, good structure and weapon quirks and well suited to the closer range fights on most Scout missions.

So rather than degenerate into an "I am a good pilot, I don't need help to kill stuff" post, perhaps offer suggestions to solve that particular problem without excluding segments of the playerbase?

Edited by draiocht, 09 July 2016 - 10:26 AM.
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[DivBy0]

General Bedlam, on 25 June 2016 - 07:41 AM, said:

So it is not that the mode is unbalanced, it is more that the player base (skill) is unbalanced for your particular timezone/play window. ...

Do you really think Clan Pugs have more skill then IS Pugs? Really?
There is nothing like a Skillcrow for the IS Pugs. Every mech and mechbuild who can defeat a Skillcrow need some amount of skill. My Skillcrow can I drive drunken an watching football on the TV.

And at this time the are very good Clan Trial Mechs in the store. The IS Medium Trial Mechs are terrible junk.
Before the tonnage for scouting going down to 50 tonns the whole game mode is a big buff for the clan side and every coordinate action against it is for vain (last event we tried with 4x4 men and were only able to slow down the [Long Tom] Process by a winrate over 90%).
PGI must have the data. It seems they are willing to let the clans have their own game mode.
Good for the clans? Maybe
Good for the game? No.

Edited by draiocht, 09 July 2016 - 10:23 AM.
edited out vulgarity

[MovinTarget]

von Haudegen, on 25 June 2016 - 02:05 PM, said:

Do you really think Clan Pugs have more skill then IS Pugs? Really?
There is nothing like a Skillcrow for the IS Pugs. Every mech and mechbuild who can defeat a Skillcrow need some amount of skill. My Skillcrow can I drive drunken an watching football on the TV.

And at this time the are very good Clan Trial Mechs in the store. The IS Medium Trial Mechs are terrible junk.
Before the tonnage for scouting going down to 50 tonns the whole game mode is a big buff for the clan side and every coordinate action against it is for vain (last event we tried with 4x4 men and were only able to slow down the [Long Tom] Process by a winrate over 90%).
PGI must have the data. It seems they are willing to let the clans have their own game mode.
Good for the clans? Maybe
Good for the game? No.

The guy has a point to some degree... Skillcrows and even Skillcats are rather strong AGAINST REALLY LIGHT MECHS. The best counter is to load up on faster medium mechs that can hit them from range. It takes more effort, practice, and coordination.

Really the best chance is to drop 4 max-speed Locusts (Loci?) and do high speed intel gathering no matter what the mode. that way you can make gains on gather intel and limit losses on protect (intel denial).

It frustrates the crap out of them and takes them out of their lower mechs.

Edited by draiocht, 09 July 2016 - 10:26 AM.
Quote Clean-Up

[DivBy0]

MovinTarget, on 25 June 2016 - 06:37 PM, said:

The guy has a point to some degree... Skillcrows and even Skillcats are rather strong AGAINST REALLY LIGHT MECHS. The best counter is to load up on faster medium mechs that can hit them from range. It takes more effort, practice, and coordination.

Really the best chance is to drop 4 max-speed Locusts (Loci?) and do high speed intel gathering no matter what the mode. that way you can make gains on gather intel and limit losses on protect (intel denial).

It frustrates the crap out of them and takes them out of their lower mechs.

This will never happen... we are talking about pugs. At this time IS Pugs must learn to build, to drive, to communicate and to aim. Clan Pugs must only build a Skillcrow. And the Trial Pulscrow in the store, for those with a little bit of skill, is one the best medium mechbuild in the game.

[ColdPsyker1]

Zito, on 25 June 2016 - 03:26 AM, said:

• Long Tom Strike: Blast radius is 300m.

Destruction is still a possibility when you're located at the epicenter of the Long Tom explosion,

Who the **** came up with that? A 600 m wide circle of destruction (that I am fairly certain is not stopped by terrain

Would explain why running away in a straight line with my 90kph summoner still had me lose 20% of my health

And what the actual **** is that PGI dude smoking?
"destruction is still a possibility at the center of the explosion"
-**if you needed any proof that the people working at PGI have no idea how their game works, look no further

[Tyler Valentine]

von Haudegen, on 25 June 2016 - 02:05 PM, said:

Do you really think Clan Pugs have more skill then IS Pugs? Really?
There is nothing like a Skillcrow for the IS Pugs. Every mech and mechbuild who can defeat a Skillcrow need some amount of skill. My Skillcrow can I drive drunken an watching football on the TV.

And at this time the are very good Clan Trial Mechs in the store. The IS Medium Trial Mechs are terrible junk.
Before the tonnage for scouting going down to 50 tonns the whole game mode is a big buff for the clan side and every coordinate action against it is for vain (last event we tried with 4x4 men and were only able to slow down the [Long Tom] Process by a winrate over 90%).
PGI must have the data. It seems they are willing to let the clans have their own game mode.
Good for the clans? Maybe
Good for the game? No.

I'm a Clammer but he's right. I've faced Long Tom once in ~50 matches...

Edited by draiocht, 09 July 2016 - 10:26 AM.
Quote Clean-Up

[justcallme A S H]

von Haudegen, on 25 June 2016 - 06:28 AM, said:

] the scouting mode ist unbalanced, their is absolutly no sense in coordinate scouting against it.

von Haudegen, on 25 June 2016 - 06:51 AM, said:

The IS Pugs lose the scout war against the Clan Pugs in Streak- and Pulsecrows.
But i know... the claner and many mercs will not see that point.

So on one hand you say there is no sense in co-ordinating against it, yet that is the way to counter it.

Odd statement there.

I have no issue dropping as a 4-man IS against a PUG clanner group, its a very easy win because a bunch of SCrows are so easy to bring down.

I'll let you in on a secret... If you co-ordinate and split your 12-man up into 3 x 4-mans, you've then flooded the queue so the PUGs cannot lose intel. And then if you can't gather 50+ intel in 40mins you're doing something wrong as a pre-made against those soft as butter Stormcrows.

[KinLuu]

R31Nismoid, on 26 June 2016 - 07:58 PM, said:

I'll let you in on a secret... If you co-ordinate and split your 12-man up into 3 x 4-mans, you've then flooded the queue so the PUGs cannot lose intel.

Yeah, for abysmal rewards and near zero fun.

I rather play quickplay (or a different game at all) than CW, if I am forced to play scounting.

[MovinTarget]

Okay with pugs, yes IS probably has a disadvantage b/c even if its Pug v Pug, if one of them has a skillcrow... Basically, its not an autowin (he still has to press R to target), but if players don't understand how to counter streakboats, yeah it'll get messy.

On the other hand, skilled players will know how to take out something as one dimensional as a streak boat (no launch arc, max range always under 400m) and they can easily exploit it.

What I am taking from this is that Clams like playing scout more than IS, but if you want LT-less invasion mode, you are just going to have to roll up your sleeves and get your own intel... don't leave your fate in the hands of pugs and wonder what happened....

[AnTi90d]

The thing is: not everyone enjoys playing scouting.

If you don't like scouting, it's easier and more rewarding to just give up on FP battles once the LT comes to the field and play another game.

-----

One of the most epic fails in all of MWO was Russ Bullock's Long Tom decision.

The player base asked for this weapon that exists in the current time:
http://www.sarna.net...Long_Tom_Cannon

It's a 20 damage weapon that you mount onto a mech for 15 critical slots. (Basically, this thing is an AOE AC20 with a longer range that fires in an arc.)

Instead, Russ decided to implement this:
http://www.sarna.net...Artillery_Piece

..but, instead of having it do ~30 damage, Russ has it doing 1,600 damage..

PGI employees had to have playtested it, during and after coding, to make sure that it made explosions and damage happen.. Those employees should be terminated with extreme prejudice.

Edited by AnTi90d, 28 June 2016 - 09:48 AM.

[Jables McBarty]

Bud Crue, on 23 June 2016 - 12:08 PM, said:

As to its occurrence in previous games that I am thinking of...it was a solo mission where it ended with you facing off against a direwolf in a long channel. With gun emplacements around it. And you needed the long tom to blast through a door or something (you had to designate it with a TAG) to finish the level. Geezuz this was like 15 some years ago I think. I don't remember crap from that long ago yet I still have vague images about the game. And people wonder why we stick around this one even with all the disappointment.

Sounds like Op3 Mission 5 from MW3. From Sarna:

"Mission 5 - Sinclair leads the Damocles Commando against the military city of Durghan, battling Ash Star, 'Mech Star, and Striker Star under Star Captains Furey and Adelmore. Fellow Damocles One member Keith Andrew destroys a heavy gate blocking the corridor to the spaceport with Arrow IV missiles, guided to their targets with the recovered TAG system. The unit is unable to make contact with Andrew afterwards, however."

The corridor would be your long channel, and IIRC there were turret emplacements along the canyon walls. It was Arrow IV instead of Long Tom. But even though the mission says to use the TAG, as I recall you don't actually need to use the it--you just shoot the door with anything and then the it blows up. Presumably because Andrews launched his missiles at it.

[Bud Crue]

Jables McBarty, on 28 June 2016 - 12:07 PM, said:

Sounds like Op3 Mission 5 from MW3. From Sarna:...

Whoa. That was it! Thanks for the recollection and the correction. Memories man, memories. I started playing this game because it makes me feel like a kid again. Alas, it is this sort of thing (the vagaries of memory) that remind me I am old. Oh well.

[Jables McBarty]

Bud Crue, on 28 June 2016 - 12:12 PM, said:

Whoa. That was it! Thanks for the recollection and the correction. Memories man, memories. I started playing this game because it makes me feel like a kid again. Alas, it is this sort of thing (the vagaries of memory) that remind me I am old. Oh well.

It was a lovely excuse to take five minutes and read the Sarna notes on the game for nostalgia's sake. Oooh the good feels. I used to play MW3 instead of mowing the lawn (until my dad yelled at me). Now I play MWO instead of...well I don't have a lawn, but I'm sure there's other "productive" things I could be doing outside in the sun.

[Lily from animove]

AnTi90d, on 23 June 2016 - 05:33 AM, said:

It's been like that for weeks.

If only we didn't live on an island, Russ might care.

So, we can either continue dropping against the Long John Thomas or we can boycott the match.

Either way, Russ still doesn't care.

Would you like to buy a mechpack? The Cyclops mechpack comes with free doritos!

or you can scout harder

[Dreammirror]

My solution: change Long Tom to a TAG directed, surgical Arrow-IV artillery strike. Makes carrying a tag worth the weight/space, same timer and damage, but requires a player to guide it on a single target. Fail to maintain the tag lock, or lacking tag all together, then your advantage is neutralized. Problem solved.

Edited by Dreammirror, 28 June 2016 - 12:58 PM.