23 replies to this topic

[Mcchuggernaut]

Well, everyone is going to be running Phoenix Hawks this weekend because of the event. That said, I think it would be wise to be prepared and "know thy enemy". I have spent the time since they were released fighting them and observing what does and doesn't work against them. So here's what I personally think is the best way to combat this mech, and why:

The first time I ever encountered one and shot at it, I aimed for center mass and tried to hit it's CT. I was rather amazed how long it survived. That narrow torso it has seems to spread damage very well. And it's a relatively quick mech. This makes it surprisingly difficult to bring down by just picking a torso section and trying to consistently hit that section to core it. This would make it a really great 45 ton medium, except...

For it's huge, vulnerable, weapon-crammed arms. There are only two of the entire seven variants of the 'Hawk that have any weapon hardpoints at all anywhere but in the arms.The B and 1K variants, specifically. Every other variant is completely neutered if you shoot it's arms off, and no amount of torso-twisting is going to keep you from knocking off one arm in seconds with an alpha and immediately cutting it's firepower in half. Get the other and that thing is just a smoking stick with legs, completely worthless for the rest of the match. With only 28 points of armor max and their huge size compared to the rest of the mech, this is VERY easy to do. Even the two variants with torso hard-points are at the absolute most carrying one ERPPC (B variant) or one ERLL/LL/LPL (1K). Usually something smaller though. The reason: It doesn't really have the tonnage. Most people are going to put Med lasers in this thing, and only the B variant can carry two of them in the CT. The K can only carry one in its right torso. Not much of a threat. And exactly why I decided not to purchase one, because I saw this huge design flaw right away.

So yeah, when you see one of these things, alpha it in the arm immediately, and chuckle evilly as half it's arsenal vanishes in one shot. If he still wants to fight, take off the other and try not to wet yourself laughing.

If your running 'Hawks this weekend, my advice is to at least run the 1K, and god have mercy on your soon-to-be poor, tortured souls.

[Bud Crue]

Yup.

Only ones I have had luck with are the 1K and the 1B. I play the 1K like a BJ-1x and the 1B like a BJ-3. Seems all right, just redundant.

Tried a 3LL build on the...I don't recall the designation and I am to lazy to look it up...the one with the LL range quirk...and in three matches the only success I had was when hiding and poking. As soon as I joined the push I was disarmed and left for dross in seconds.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

I just go for the side torsos on them to get a quick kill since it doesn't take much to get through a 45 tonner's side. Issue I had though was that its arms were so big that I couldn't get a clear shot on the side torso.

Least he lost half his firepower.

Then shortly after died from an XL check.

[Clownwarlord]

No no no no! The great weakness of the Phoenix Hawk is me

[Foxwalker]

So far, as many predicted, they are "Hard Mode". I am sure we will see the usual suspects with 800-900 damage in them (I was pretty mystified by the high scores from the Urbie Challenge).

I have been averaging about 150 damage with some games at 300-400. No real heavy duty quirks. It also seems a bit large for a 45 tonner. (Pretty sure someone will say the size is cannon). As said by others I am easily killed, arms shot off and so forth.

This challenge will be a lot of fun .... for those not running them. It will be a PHX shooting gallery.

[Wintersdark]

It's great for me. I have them and love them, but am busting out my assaults for Smashy time. I love event weekends focusing on lighter mechs... So many out there, people unfamiliar with them, unskilled... It's a juicy shooting gallery.

[Xhaleon]

I agree. I didn't get much playtime over the last few days but if there is a mech that needs arm HP buffs its the PHX. They're actually great shields and it just so happens that its a primarily arm-gun mech. Bummer.

[Aerei]

I have faith ion my 1B, but that's also because my Enforcer 4R runs its larges in the Left Arm, so I'm used to having to protect a side.

The Phoenix Hawks with no arm mounts are damn vulnerable, though. It really hammers down the importance of asymmetry.

[Vashramire]

Most variants run right side heavy if building asymmetrical(because double laser HP's in the right arm) except for the ROC which has its missiles on the left. Taking out that side often can remove more than 50% of their weapons. Some have said they are easily legged as well but the only time I get legged is when I'm being shot at while JJing through the air. None of them have lethal dps except maybe 1K and 2 but all of them run hot if you close in. They may be fast but lights can eat them up without fear, especially SRM Jenners/IIC. They might be slightly more durable than a light but a lot of lights have higher dps to blast through the massive side torsos that can't hide the pylons by twisting. Pilot a light if you want to hunt these for easy kills. Bring a gauss mech to snipe pylons that they don't know they are exposing if they try to hill hump. Streakcrows are 1 alpha arm removers and in some cases 2 shot kills.

Basically to kill it, bring something that isn't another Phoenix Hawk.

[Kotzi]

Burn it with fire! Focus fire!

[cazidin]

And here I thought those JET PYLONS would be excellent ST targets.

[Snowbluff]

TL;DR

[Tanil Kane]

Very true. I've had either one or both arms shot off quite early in a few matches and from then on your just a meat shield trying to distract people.

Overall the mechs seems pretty weak, a Blackjack is better in almost all cases, but the ECM variant is fun to play and the visuals on it are really good.

[Garfuncle]

It needs Wolverine level structure/armor quirks on both of its arms.

[Slambot]

Agree with the OP. Having run my phoenixes, I have to say the arms are very vulnerable. They make great shields, but all my weapons are in there. I have been disarmed in many games. They could use some arm buffs like BJ side torsos and any other mech like the centurion that depends on its arms. 15-25 for each arm is in order. Other than the mech running a bit warm, its fairly solid.

[Kubernetes]

I don't own any, but I will say they're pretty elusive when running and jumping around spastically. But once they stop or run in a straight line, boom. Also, the firepower is just too weak to make them scary for any mech larger than 40 tons.

[Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky]

Imo, they are very fragile... And thats their greatest weakness. Since most if not all their armaments are in their arms, shooting for side torsos can either kill them, or quickly cripple them.

Its almost impossible to be viable without an XL, so more often then not, vomiting on their side torsos is a quick way to remove them from the battlefield.

Honestly, they need a minor quirck adjustment (they need more structure)...

[Moonlight Grimoire]

Yeah having played my three Phoenix Hawks they are lovely 'mechs that are highly allergic to any sort of incoming fire. Honestly with the amount of surface area (let alone volume) the arms take up they need some good structure quirks to stay on, probably bump up the side torso quirks a little. I do find however that the ECM version works better at spreading damage due to, well, apparently without that box around you the enemy has a real hard time aiming, well, at T4 they do.

I am afraid of taking my 1K out due to, well, it to me is the worst due to either you use all the hard points and need to then get in close, or you take some bigger lasers to make use of that STD laser burn reduction. I mean I am playing these things like a wolfhound, but, wolfhounds put majority of their firepower in their torsos.

But, hey, I like the Phoenix Hawk, fun mech with a high skill floor and I don't know how high the skill cap is for the chassis, still, fun mech, up there with the Wolfhound, Crab, and Marauder for me.

[Clownwarlord]

The greatest advantage is, being able to work with lights and other fast mediums.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Wintersdark, on 24 June 2016 - 05:21 AM, said:

It's great for me. I have them and love them, but am busting out my assaults for Smashy time. I love event weekends focusing on lighter mechs... So many out there, people unfamiliar with them, unskilled... It's a juicy shooting gallery.

Even when piloted by people who know how to play them, it's a juicy shooting gallery.