82 replies to this topic

[Mavairo]

Alistair Winter, on 25 June 2016 - 09:12 AM, said:

In your opinion, which of the 14 existing maps result in people politely exchanging gunfire at max range for the majority of the match? Feel free to differentiate between game modes, as some maps play out in different ways depending on game mode.

Oh my bad, politely exchange gunfire, by peeking back and forth, behind cover that's almost 800 meters apart.
Frozen City Redux
Alpine
Polar Highlands
Most games on Grim Plexus
That's 4 out of the 13 quick play maps, which are boring, poke fests with the way 90% of this community plays them. One of these maps is almost always in the rotation on any given voting, and these god awful maps that reward the "NOOO I MIGHT NOT SEE THE ENEMY COMING I AM GONNA TAKE DMG IF THEY CAN APPROACH ME!!!!!!" coward style play, are almost always voted in favor to drop on.

Thanks to 1/3 of the maps being Snipe maps..and the fact that they each pop up so often, and the community decides to go with long range exchanges of Gun Fire, rather than brawling style maps means that these maps are played disproportionately so you might as well leave your brawler at home, especially if it's not an assault mech.

It's also no coincidence imo that these maps just happen to be the coldest maps in the game most of the time too. A boring playstyle, thrown in with the lowest level of fire discipline required in this game. As long as the map has one, or both of these features everyone's going to vote for it, rather than more interesting, mixed range maps, or god forbid, close in maps that are Hot.

Edited by Mavairo, 25 June 2016 - 11:08 AM.

[adamts01]

Mordor: Just ******* hit delete.

Crimson: Flatten that stupid ******* mountain and add more tunnels.

HPG: Lower the wall and add more passageways. Maybe cut and past to make a second central feature so there's not a single central feature like all the other bad maps.

[Johnny Z]

I really like the new maps for what they are used for. Maybe there will be smaller Solaris maps some time and maybe other additions as well. So these are being finished really nicely so far.

[Alistair Winter]

Mavairo, on 25 June 2016 - 11:05 AM, said:

Oh my bad, politely exchange gunfire, by peeking back and forth, behind cover that's almost 800 meters apart.
Frozen City Redux
Alpine
Polar Highlands
Most games on Grim Plexus
That's 4 out of the 13 quick play maps, which are boring, poke fests with the way 90% of this community plays them.

Maybe it's different for Tier 3 players, but only Alpine results in sniping wars more often than brawls at Tier 1, at least in the solo queue. And Conquest on Alpine usually results in brawling anyway, so does Domination.

And even if some matches start with 2-3 minutes of sniping, they almost always lead to brawling when the killing starts.

Mavairo, on 25 June 2016 - 11:05 AM, said:

Thanks to 1/3 of the maps being Snipe maps..and the fact that they each pop up so often, and the community decides to go with long range exchanges of Gun Fire, rather than brawling style maps means that these maps are played disproportionately so you might as well leave your brawler at home, especially if it's not an assault mech.

I believe you're objectively wrong about that, at any tier and both in solo queue and group queue. But I guess neither of us have actual statistics, so I don't know where to go from here.

Rampage, on 25 June 2016 - 10:44 AM, said:

IMO those last 6 maps should not be touched and work should start on adding a couple totally new maps to the rotation.

They will definitely want to add dropships and night/day cycles, I think. They did that for River City, Forest Colony, Frozen City, Polar Highlands and Grim Plexus. Although Grim Plexus doesn't have a night/day cycle.

But yeah, I think I'm leaning more towards letting the new map designers build great maps from scratch, instead of trying to salvage old and bad maps. To fix Terra Therma they will need to make huge changes. And then all the Terra Therma fans will be upset and say "Bring old Terra Therma back".

The way to please more people is to leave the old maps relatively untouched, I think.

[Chrithu]

Make a complete outside ring, change nothing, delete.


As for the other untouched maps: Alpine Peaks can be deleted as well. Imo it is broken beyond repair. In any mode the spawns favor one side and I do not see how this could be repaired. Plus with Polar and Frozen we have two superb cold maps.

Edited by Jason Parker, 25 June 2016 - 12:29 PM.

[Trauglodyte]

Alistair Winter, on 25 June 2016 - 07:17 AM, said:

So as we know, PGI is trying to update all the old maps, in addition to making some new maps (Polar Highlands, Grim Plexus)

• River City - Updated
  
• Caustic Valley - Updated
  
• Forest Colony - Updated
  
• Frozen City - Updated
  
• Viridian Bog - WIP (click this link to help with that)

It sounds like Terra Therma is next priority after Viridian Bog. That leaves:

• Tourmaline Desert
  
• Alpine Peaks
  
• Crimson Strait
  
• HPG Manifold
  
• Canyon Network
  
• Mining Collective

I expect that HPG Manifold, Canyon Network and Mining Collective will be the last 3 maps to get updated, because they appear to be the 3 most popular maps. However, there's a lot of mixed feelings about what PGI did with the 4 updated maps. Most of them got bigger, but River City, Forest Colony and Caustic Valley are really similar to the originals in terms of where the actual fighting is going on. Frozen City is the biggest change, and (in my opinion) the best update, because now fighting is going on everywhere on a much bigger map.


So my question is: what do you want PGI to do with HPG Manifold, Crimson Strait and Terra Therma? Just add some dropships and call it a day?

HPG Manifold is one of the most popular maps in MWO. Probably one of my least favourite maps, but there you go. I'm not sure how to improve it. Crimson Strait is very popular but extremely predictable. Another one of my least favourite maps. Terra Therma is both unpopular and predictable. I've no idea how to fix that map either, without moving the big volcano to a corner of the map, so it doesn't dominate gameplay.

Thoughts?

My order would be:

• Terra Therma
  
• Crimson Strait
  
• HPG
  
• Canyon Network - Theta needs to be demolished in a hurry
  
• Alpine Peaks
  
• Tourmaline

Terra Therma is just messed up. The center doesn't make sense and, for some reason, the lava is actually cooler than the rocks around the lava (in Thermal Vision).

Crimson Strait is just unfair to one side and there is way too much water.

HPG has been broken since forever. LRMs are largely useless and only a few mechs can perch up on the wall, which should never should have been allowed.

Canyon Network is just a ****** map because non-JJ users have to go around God's elbow to get up top and everyone wants to butt f_ck each other at Theta even when it is an Assault match.

I think Alpine is perfect, except for "power hill".

I have no problem with tourmaline.

[Hellshiver]

New maps would be better, but in lieu of that....

Brawler heaven map. Snipe map after snipe map gets old fast.

[C E Dwyer]

Alpine really needs the hill lowered and not made so steep, its a real issue as being such an obvious focal point, everyone gravitates to it in pug matches, starting positions changed didn't stop it, we got polar wastes instead, as a replacement, which was o.O but with it still in rotation it needs leveling out.

Kitsumi's idea's for terra therma are good, I'd be in favour of even more routes to take, as the only real issue is where you can go and how restriced you are, it need more channels of attack or tunnels as per suggestion.

Crimson straight dominion still desperately needs a different place for the cap point, even with the adjustment it's hopeless and one sided.

Tourmaline desert, canyon, HPG, mining need Zero changes

Edited by Cathy, 25 June 2016 - 01:57 PM.

[Ghostrider0067]

I'm perfectly fine if they left them completely alone.

[roboPrancer]

IMO Crimson needs to just be copied and pasted a bunch of times.

I love that map I think it has a good mix of elevation and cover, with some long LOS mixed in here and there.

Therma should get more lava lakes and decentralized fighting locations, and the whole calderra should get reworked.

Also, add balrogs to fight in training.

[Red Shrike]

Something that's probably been mentioned before, but maps like crimson strait are designed for 'mechs and then made to look like a city. I'd like it to be the other way around, to design and build a sensible city, and then tweaking it so that 'mechs don't get stuck between tiny alleyways.
I mean, even in the BT universe (I presume), cities are built for people to live in, not for the express purpose of being fought over by 'mechs.

[Johnny Z]

Red Shrike, on 25 June 2016 - 03:57 PM, said:

Something that's probably been mentioned before, but maps like crimson strait are designed for 'mechs and then made to look like a city. I'd like it to be the other way around, to design and build a sensible city, and then tweaking it so that 'mechs don't get stuck between tiny alleyways.
I mean, even in the BT universe (I presume), cities are built for people to live in, not for the express purpose of being fought over by 'mechs.

Those building models can be entirely redone staying within the current dimentioned some time and placed in a long day. The models being redone or improved may take more time, I have no idea really, never done much models outside slight adjustments in nifscope. But anyway these maps can continue to be upgraded over time. Another huge advantage to having instanced game play.

The way it sounds map production and upgrading has been stepped up lately. Those moveable trucks and cars on the new Frozen city will almost for sure find their way onto the other maps as well.

I really look forward to hearing what the next entirely new map will be!!!!!!!

Edited by Johnny Z, 25 June 2016 - 04:03 PM.

[xengk]

HPG.
The basement is hardly use by anyone except by lights in conquest.

Suggest turning it into a subterranean map.

• expanding the "fortress" all the way to the walls, the gap between the wall goes directly into the basement
  
• 1 or 2 ramp near each entrance allow mech access to topside, so flanking can be done
  
• raise the ceiling of the basement so there is room for jump jet maneuver, basement core to have even higher ceiling to allow direct LRM flight
  
• Move all conquest point into the basement
  
• Domination point to remain unchanged on topside
  
• Assault point to remain unchanged beyond the wall

Terra Therma
Make the volcano more strategic.

• Reduce entrance to volcano to 3, 1 for each side and a third roughly the same distance from both side
  
• The side without entrance get smooth out relatively to allow faster travel, allow flanking if there is stalemate in the volcano
  
• The map now should have 3 main fighting area: arena inside volcano, control for 3rd entrance, skirmish on the fast lane
  
• Conquest points can be placement; 1 in volcano, 2 on 3rd entrance and 2 on fast lane
  
• Domination point can be place on the 3rd entrance
  
• Assault points remain unchanged

[Zen Idiot]

mining collective is fine.
crimson straight is fine.
HPG is fine.
canyon network is fine.

spend that effort making new stuff

Edited by Zen Idiot, 25 June 2016 - 04:22 PM.

[Lykaon]

Crimson straight is a fairly easy fix.

Open up the G5 through G8

Open F6 and 7 and half of F8

this now creates another avenue of approach other than tunnel or pass.

Populate the newly opened terrain with more urban structures blending into forest toward the G row.

With this new layout the drops zones may beed to be rotated slightly counter clockwise with red team spawn being B5 and 6 and Blue team spawn being G3 and G4

[Nightshade24]

Mavairo, on 25 June 2016 - 08:43 AM, said:

FFS don't touch Crimson Straight, HPG, Canyon, Mining collective OR tourmaline.

The last thing we need is more Derp Open maps for people to just politely exchange gunfire at max range at.

These maps are already stupid with very openess and such.
Crimson, Canyon, and mining are the maps that need the help the most right now from being the mess they are currently.

However HPG?... my only fix is to make it look like an HPG sight and not the side of a Death Star who decided having a mech accessible entrance was a good idea (who the hell makes a HPG that has mechs inside it? what's next? a Kitchen that's mech accessible?)

[Lykaon]

HPG manifold is one of my least favorite maps on account of most of it being unused nearly always and what is left is dominated by the middle array. This means that most games are a combo king of the hill NASCAR event and tend to be very predictable.

Another annoyance is being fired upon the instant you enter the middle "arena" area from one of the enemy team entry points.

My ideas for fixing it.

First lower the surrounding outer wall. open up this area to be fairly easily jumped over by jump capable mechs. I would suggest varriance of wall height from it's current height in some places with gaps of height ranging between half it's current height and low enough to bearly cover a tall mech.

This allows the mostly unused outer reaches (outside the "arena" area to be utilized and remain relivant to a battle inside the "arena" area. The variances in height make for an interesting terrain feature for jumping mechs without simply being an elevated doughnut like it is now.

Next add two more points of entry to the inner ring.

E3 and C5

For assault mode shift the base locations to E2 and A6

And finally populate the outer expanse that is mostly empty rolling hills with more structures and cover.

[Queen of England]

• Terra Therma: Mostly fine. The map looks pretty good, and has a lot of interesting terrain. Unfortunately, all the fighting happens in the volcano, the least-interesting part of the map. They could fix this by dramatically increasing the heat in the volcano area (just make it a little cooler than standing in the lava). Then it would be a shortcut, but not a place you could reasonably defend, which would force the combat out to the more interesting parts of the map.
  
• Viridian Bog: Mostly fine. The main issue is that once set of spawn points has better access to the high ground than the other. Add a ramp to each side of the plataeus to fix this problem, and you're fine.
  
• Tourmaline Desert: This one is one of the game's best maps. No change.
  
• Alpine Peaks: Flatten the big mountain a bit.
  
• Crimson Strait: I hate this map, but I'm not sure why, so I don't really have any suggestions.
  
• HPG Manifold: This map is pretty good. Needs some more collision mesh clean-up.
  
• Canyon Network: This maps is one of the game's best maps. No change.
  
• Mining Collective: This map is pretty good.

[JediPanther]

I like hpg. All the ramps and walls plus the "basement" give you lots of options already. Terra just needs the ring of dumb ***-stand-in-door-area removed or lowered in height so it's easily lrm-ed or sniped. There is so much empty space on that map the only reason you wouldn't go to the ring is if its conquest mode.

Crimson there's not much you can do with it since pretty much every camps at The c3 underpass waiting for the other team to lumber through tunnel. The pass itself is pretty useless as it is easy to lrm-out any mech there that doesn't have ecm cover. Some times you'll still find that rare light mech on the mountain beside the pass using it to laser snipe and report what is going on. The D2 island is pretty much ignored which makes it sad because it is a great location for a lrm with back up to set up giving acess to b2-b3 and the ramp.

[LordNothing]

nothing.

make new maps.