82 replies to this topic

[Lanzman]

On HPG I'd just polish up the textures to make them spiffier and fill in all of the terrain around the outside of the structure so that you could run all the way around the outside.

[adamts01]

Lanzman, on 25 June 2016 - 07:42 PM, said:

On HPG I'd just polish up the textures to make them spiffier and fill in all of the terrain around the outside of the structure so that you could run all the way around the outside.

Jumpjets in this game suck. The average jump mech should be able to hop on the wall, it should be lowered some. Plus, most of the level is never played, there's zero point in the whole exterior, it's just a bad overall design. The only time anyone goes there is to either cap (zzzzz) or to die.

[Johnny Z]

A suggestion. Put a tunnel from one side to the other that leads to the center under part. So each team can take one way from the drop that forces travel to the center under or the other way that leads into what is playable now.

Might be lame but its an idea.

Edited by Johnny Z, 25 June 2016 - 08:01 PM.

[Aiden Skye]

Night vision and thermal suck on all of the new maps. Especially at night / sunset / sunrise. Much better visibility on the old maps. Post processing does not work on the new maps. There is no blurring of the horizon and objects in the distance with makes all the new maps look unpolished and terrible. I really don't want to see any more remakes until these are addressed.

[adamts01]

W A R K H A N, on 25 June 2016 - 08:15 PM, said:

Night vision and thermal suck on all of the new maps. Especially at night / sunset / sunrise. Much better visibility on the old maps. Post processing does not work on the new maps. There is no blurring of the horizon and objects in the distance with makes all the new maps look unpolished and terrible. I really don't want to see any more remakes until these are addressed.

My potato likes the new maps. I can finally get decent fps on frozen. But yeah, I can't comment on higher video settings. Personally, I'd rather have textureless levels that play better than a beautiful Forrest Colony that only sees combat in one location, or two locations in the case of Old Frozen.

[CtrlAltWheee]

Malleus011, on 25 June 2016 - 08:53 AM, said:

HPG Manifold: In Battletech Canon, HPGs are extremely valuable installations which were *never* damaged or destroyed. You might fight near one, or even for possession of one (though Comstar owns them all) but risking damage to the facility itself was avoided. PGI has given us a map where we use the HPG transmitter as hard cover. (sigh)

Leaving that annoyance aside for the moment ... HPG as currently built has the same problems as most of the PGI maps. Spawn at the edges, fight in the middle, nearly every map is the same (general) fight. Very few actions take place outside of the same damned space, which takes a big map and makes it boring fast, because it never gets used.

HPG is one of the *better* executions of their usual map style, but by now it's pretty danged tired.

If I got the chance to direct the rebuild of the map, I'd make several big changes.

• Make the map larger; effectively circularizing the current map layout.
  
• Lose the major central 'mountain' feature entirely.
  
• Lower the 'arena' walls; in some areas, to mech height, in others, twice; but make the map more attractive for JJ 'mechs due to variable available heights.
  
• Along with the lowered 'walls', break the facility into seven or more 'rings' smaller than the current 'arena'. This would create multiple small battlespaces - and would allow the actual HPG to be placed out of the combat area, letting us fight over the facility without shooting it up.
  
• Make a large starport along one entire side, with landing pads, hangars, and several 'mech bays. It always bugged me to have a remote HPG station with no obvious way in or out.
  
• Add a lot of destructable terrain. It would be cool to have certain structures which can be leveled by gunfire or 'mech contact - like the little hab buildings, or cargo containers, or even greenhouses or clear personnel tubes.
  
• Randomize drop locations - all three dropships come in together, but there are three possible landing sites they might choose, depending on whether the map spawned A, B, or C variant (otherwise identical).
  
• Only one side comes in on dropships. It's strange for both sides to fly into the same battlefield. The non-flying side should start at the starport, in 'mech bays. Dropships should land on the moonscape side (roughly opposite the starport).
  
• Redesign the entire facility to make sense on a human scale, and then let the 'mechs fight. Right now it feels like our 'mechs are infantrymen. Fix that.
  
• Add a moving automated monorail that ravels between facilities. Double decker people-movers than can cover 'mechs - until it moves on. Getting hit by the monorail should be unpleasant, so don't stand in front of it.
  
• Love the custom sound for HPG. Keep that!

Crimson Straits: One of my very favorite maps, because it has more than one channel for combat, meaning matches *sometimes* take place outside of the usual spot. Great visuals, really feels like part of a larger city. Beautiful design, pretty good terrain.

If I got the chance to direct the rebuild of the map, I'd make several big changes.

• Make the city make sense as a settlement. Residental blocks, commercial skyscrapers, then intermodal terminal; don't just blend them all together. (People don't like to live next to stinky refineries and noisy ports) Try to make sure that streets and rails are designed to serve the city, not the 'mech combat. We'll find routes to the action.
  
• Make the whole map feel human scaled, and then add 'mechs. This is one of the better maps for feeling 'big' but it still doesn't always sell the 'mech's sheer size.
  
• Add moving trains to the monorail, as outlined in HPG above (look, a re-use!)
  
• Make sure the harbor is deep enough for the ships to actually sail in.
  
• Loaded ships also sit deeper in the water.
  
• More graduated seafloor; not just a ramp and then pool table flat bottom.
  
• Give us MUCH more city to fight in, and less gigantic mountain pushing us into two funnels. Gigantic mountains and high passes are great, but nudge them more towards the flanks.
  
• Destructable cars would be an easy add.
  
• A few destructable buildings would be great. Even if it's only the tanks in the chemical yard, or the loading cranes, or something. Having EVERYTHING stop your gunfire breaks immersion.
  
• Having variable spawn locations and only one side dropping in as outlined above on HPG.
  
• This feels like a city on a tropical island with a red sea - great art feel. Keep that!

Terra Therma: My most hated map, because it's the most boring map. I don't mind hot, I can live with lava damage, but it's either jam the doors or ring around the volcano, every time. The handful of matches I played that *didn't* devolve into that were fun, but it's a dull, dark, hot map with few redeeming qualities.

Why the hell would anyone suspend a giant platform over an active caldera? Why would anyone fight in such a volcanically active region? A little bit of heat venting I can see - scrambles sensors but the rest - I can't even ... nevermind.

If I got the chance to direct the rebuild of the map, I'd make MAJOR changes.

• No more Mount Doom! Break Mount Doom into three volcanoes and spread them around the map, so you've got a reason for the big lava flows and the no-go areas. But get rid of the huge central feature!
  
• Sensor scrambling - this is a seismically active and signal disruptive area. Seismic sensors should sometimes show ghosts. Sensor ranges might be reduced below 800m. This is a perfect Infowar Map. Add some!
  
• This map doesn't feel inhabited by human beings at all. Almost everything is mech scale and almost nothing is human scale. The world should be human scale, and we feel like infantrymen when it's mech scale. Address this with human-sized structures, truck-sized bridges, and habitat and mining buildings.
  
• What the heck are we fighting over? A geothermal generating facility? (Don't you usually put those in stable areas?) Mining? Uhh ... lava ... harvesting? THINK about what facilities are here, why, and how the engineers are coping with the environment.
  
• Without Mount Doom, the biggest issue with the map is scouting, just like Polar Highlands. Make sure we can see.

You, sir, are a huge nerd in the best way. And I love you.

Great ideas here, especially about the narrative within the map. One thing I'd like to add as a huge nerd also: why is the entire HPG installation made out of metal?

I enjoy HGP map gameplay-wise, but it feels like a missed opportunity in a lot of ways. There's almost nothing to sell the scale of the mechs. PGI makes no effort to explain what an HPG is or why anyone is fighting over it.

New players need some introduction to the lore like a lot of us got with MW2, 3, 4, etc.

[MauttyKoray]

Alistair Winter, on 25 June 2016 - 07:17 AM, said:

So as we know, PGI is trying to update all the old maps, in addition to making some new maps (Polar Highlands, Grim Plexus)

• River City - Updated
  
• Caustic Valley - Updated
  
• Forest Colony - Updated
  
• Frozen City - Updated
  
• Viridian Bog - WIP (click this link to help with that)

It sounds like Terra Therma is next priority after Viridian Bog. That leaves:

• Tourmaline Desert - Texture updates + addition/modification of cover. (its a good map still)
  
• Alpine Peak - Full revamp, worst map ingame currently, needs massive modification or full rework, change to PUG Hill, and a reason to use other areas of the map.
  
• Crimson Straight- Could use a facelift (textures) but not sure if it needs a revamp otherwise honestly, maybe cover addition/modification or minor geomtetry edits.
  
• HPG Manifold - Solid map as is but could use texture update love and possibly minor revamp to change up some thing and make it better.
  
• Canyon Networks - Textures again, might do well with minor changes like ramps, cliff edges, accessibility around the map, etc.
  
• Mining Collective-Fairly new map...at most a texture facelift of slight change/addition to cover/areas of it.

I expect that HPG Manifold, Canyon Network and Mining Collective will be the last 3 maps to get updated, because they appear to be the 3 most popular maps. However, there's a lot of mixed feelings about what PGI did with the 4 updated maps. Most of them got bigger, but River City, Forest Colony and Caustic Valley are really similar to the originals in terms of where the actual fighting is going on. Frozen City is the biggest change, and (in my opinion) the best update, because now fighting is going on everywhere on a much bigger map.


So my question is: what do you want PGI to do with HPG Manifold, Crimson Strait and Terra Therma? Just add some dropships and call it a day?

HPG Manifold is one of the most popular maps in MWO. Probably one of my least favourite maps, but there you go. I'm not sure how to improve it. Crimson Strait is very popular but extremely predictable. Another one of my least favourite maps. Terra Therma is both unpopular and predictable. I've no idea how to fix that map either, without moving the big volcano to a corner of the map, so it doesn't dominate gameplay.

Thoughts?

[Weeny Machine]

River City, Forest Colony and even Frozen City weren't great overhauls. All maps seem to end up as silly sniper/LoLalpha-warrior maps. The king of those is Polar HighLRMlands.

Terra is trash - they can't make it worse. However, I shiver when I think about the other maps...

Edited by Bush Hopper, 26 June 2016 - 12:44 AM.

[Red Shrike]

Bush Hopper, on 26 June 2016 - 12:43 AM, said:

The king of those is Polar HighLRMlands.

I find that Polar Highlands is one of the few maps where cornerpeeking isn't actually the best tactic, and I love it.

[TANTE EMMA]

Just take a look into some of the old MW4 maps, some were simply awesome. The thing that bothers me most is that the gametimer is just 15 minutes, which imho is one of the reasons that on big maps everyone tries to get to a centerpoint and nothing else.
In MW4 you had the time to make a different approach towards the enemy, scouts were not just valid but a must in competitive gameplay. Sometimes the Scout was following the OPFOR for minutes, while your team got into position for an intercept.

Some of the big maps in MW4 had MFBs (Mobile Field Base) that rearmed your mech and partly did repairs on your mech (Your armour was not fully restored). They could be destroyed and some of the most intense fights took place at them.

PGI should take a look into MW4 and grab some of the ideas that were employed. I do not say MW4 was perfect, but it had some very nice maps and mechanics.

Just my 2 cents.

[Lykaon]

Mavairo, on 25 June 2016 - 08:43 AM, said:

FFS don't touch Crimson Straight, HPG, Canyon, Mining collective OR tourmaline.

The last thing we need is more Derp Open maps for people to just politely exchange gunfire at max range at.

I find this real funny because on the new frozen city I find the cover is more easily moved through. On the old Frozen you just didn't have any room to move with 24 mechs running around.

I really like Polar because it has loads of cover that isn't DERPtasticly easy to just crawl under and hide indeffinatley. You can't hug the canyon wall like in canyon network you can't snuggle up against a building and camp you need to play these maps dynamicly. This map design promotes fluidity of movement and not hidey pokey. Players just haven't figured it out yet because most of them like to derp up to a hill and go camping on a tiny map.


HPG for some inexplicable reason is one of the most popular maps. Yet as a design it's terrible.

Yes I said it HPG is terrible. HPG has around 23 gird squares of playable area yet in truth only 6.5 of those grids are ever really used. HPG is a map where almost 3/4ths of it is irrelivent.

Of the remaining 6.5 of used grid space about a quarter of that is up hill.And MWO mechs do not seem to have the capacity to torso pitch enough to fight on graded slopes add to this that many mechs have their arms glued to the hips at the elbow and hill fights are simply just frustration.

With only two entry points per team to the actually relivent and used portion of the map movement is 100% predictable.

2 enemy lances will move through one opening the remaining one goes through the other. They then move as quickly as possible to the top of the array and now begins the previously mentioned aggrivating fighting on the slope with arms glued to your hips. or NASCAR. Because there is always opertunity to turn in one direction and push into the enemy as the enemy goes in the same direction to either escape or do the same...so boring.


Actually I think I just explained why it is so popular.

It's so simple in it's options and limited in it's scope that it's easy to play without the thought of how or where or even what...just cram 24 mechs on a postage stamp and spray ammo all over the place.

Edited by Lykaon, 26 June 2016 - 02:10 AM.

[Red Shrike]

TANTE EMMA, on 26 June 2016 - 01:08 AM, said:

Just take a look into some of the old MW4 maps, some were simply awesome. The thing that bothers me most is that the gametimer is just 15 minutes, which imho is one of the reasons that on big maps everyone tries to get to a centerpoint and nothing else.
In MW4 you had the time to make a different approach towards the enemy, scouts were not just valid but a must in competitive gameplay. Sometimes the Scout was following the OPFOR for minutes, while your team got into position for an intercept.

Some of the big maps in MW4 had MFBs (Mobile Field Base) that rearmed your mech and partly did repairs on your mech (Your armour was not fully restored). They could be destroyed and some of the most intense fights took place at them.

PGI should take a look into MW4 and grab some of the ideas that were employed. I do not say MW4 was perfect, but it had some very nice maps and mechanics.

Just my 2 cents.

Spoiler

[Juodas Varnas]

I just want more buildings, more vehicles, more clutter to make the maps look more natural.

[Weeny Machine]

Lykaon, on 26 June 2016 - 02:08 AM, said:

I really like Polar because it has loads of cover that isn't DERPtasticly easy to just crawl under and hide indeffinatley.

Using cover is derptastic? Cover can be used to get your enemy in a disadvantagous position or use strike and fade tactics, flanking etc. A more or less open ground is just lolalpha warrior and LRM spam with hardly any tactics .

[Dahrsis]

These are my favourite maps at the moment, so i only woud like to see some minor adjustments if any at all.

• Tourmaline Desert- The right side of the map is sparingly used because of the open approach. A bit more cover would do.
  
• Alpine Peak - PUG Hill is the problem and the approach to it. Flatten it a bit, put a station on top and pull tunnels through the mountain. Give it different approaches and it will work.
  
• Crimson Straight- Keep it as is with some minor texture updates. One of the few maps which offers flanking options and forces both sides to split up a bit.
  
• HPG Manifold - Great map. No changes except minor cosmetics. The only map where a central structure works because it is big enough (the strucure due to several elevtion levels).
  
• Canyon Networks - No changes whatsoever except maybe a bit cosmetic.
  
• Mining Collective- No changes whatsoever except maybe a bit cosmetic.
  
• Terra Therma - I don´t like it, but somehow i do. But i Can´t put my finger on it why. There is potential. Would like to see at least 2 more entrances into the cauldron, or at least widen the existing ones and set more cover down. Another level could work wonders too.

The maps i like the most are HPG, Mining Collective, Crimson Straight and Canyon Network. I usually see action over the most part of the map there during the course of a match as they engourage splitting up and flank.

Edited by Dahrsis, 26 June 2016 - 03:41 AM.

[Johnny Z]

Red Shrike, on 26 June 2016 - 01:02 AM, said:

I find that Polar Highlands is one of the few maps where cornerpeeking isn't actually the best tactic, and I love it.

The new Frozen City is the highest difficulty map out yet. Lots of cover but just as many ways to quickly and easily flank it, and get flanked in return. On top of this, lots of long sight lines for snipers to make going from cover to cover dangerous.

This map will reward players experienced on it more than any other so far.

Edited by Johnny Z, 26 June 2016 - 05:42 AM.

[Red Shrike]

Johnny Z, on 26 June 2016 - 05:35 AM, said:

The new Frozen City is the highest difficulty map out yet. Lots of cover but just as many ways to quickly and easily flank it, and get flanked in return. On top of this, lots of long sight lines for snipers to make going from cover to cover dangerous.

This map will reward players experienced on it more than any other so far.

I do find it easier to flank them and catch them unawares, I'll give you that.

[BattleBunny]

Please leave old maps alone and create new ones.

Thank you.

[SplashDown]

Alistair Winter, on 25 June 2016 - 07:17 AM, said:

So as we know, PGI is trying to update all the old maps, in addition to making some new maps (Polar Highlands, Grim Plexus)

• River City - Updated
  
• Caustic Valley - Updated
  
• Forest Colony - Updated
  
• Frozen City - Updated
  
• Viridian Bog - WIP (click this link to help with that)

It sounds like Terra Therma is next priority after Viridian Bog. That leaves:

• Tourmaline Desert
  
• Alpine Peaks
  
• Crimson Strait
  
• HPG Manifold
  
• Canyon Network
  
• Mining Collective

I expect that HPG Manifold, Canyon Network and Mining Collective will be the last 3 maps to get updated, because they appear to be the 3 most popular maps. However, there's a lot of mixed feelings about what PGI did with the 4 updated maps. Most of them got bigger, but River City, Forest Colony and Caustic Valley are really similar to the originals in terms of where the actual fighting is going on. Frozen City is the biggest change, and (in my opinion) the best update, because now fighting is going on everywhere on a much bigger map.


So my question is: what do you want PGI to do with HPG Manifold, Crimson Strait and Terra Therma? Just add some dropships and call it a day?

HPG Manifold is one of the most popular maps in MWO. Probably one of my least favourite maps, but there you go. I'm not sure how to improve it. Crimson Strait is very popular but extremely predictable. Another one of my least favourite maps. Terra Therma is both unpopular and predictable. I've no idea how to fix that map either, without moving the big volcano to a corner of the map, so it doesn't dominate gameplay.

Thoughts?

After seeing the recent changes in maps i would prefer for them to leave the rest alone as the new changes in maps are garbage....example..frozen city went from one of the greats to crap..crap..mega-crap

[Dakkss]

Absolutely nothing because PGI isn't capable of updating old maps without turning them into a wide open, long-range favouring Large Laser/Ballistics map.

Used to routinely see good brawls (and LL fights) on old Forest, old Frozen City, and old River. Now all I ever see on the new versions of these is just Large Laser and AC2/5/10 reigning supreme. By the time anyone actually manages to close the gap on these enormous maps they have lost all their armour on a ST or CT.

I used to field brawlers, now I just play LPL boat mechs because actually getting a chance to effectively use Small lasers and AC20s are quite rare nowadays.