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Highlander Iic Still Bad?


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#41 Brizna

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 11:19 AM

I've tried a similar play style than that you posted and it works decently, though it certainly is not optimal. Still, I think there is room to improve that build while staying faithful to its spirit.

1: LRM5+Art > LRM10: It's more ammo efficient, gets you locks faster, has better cool down and stacks missiles tighter.
2: While you are packing 3 different weapon types they all have a range of engagement, UAC20 simply doesn't mix well with LPL and LRMs, I suggest you "downgrade" to UAC10, right now its combination of range, cool down, DPS and low bullets per shot make it a great with LPLs.

Still to me the best highlander build is the HGN-C with 2xUAC10 and 2xLPL. But I have had fun leveling one of my HGNs in the spirit you depicted and it was reasonably effective.

#42 process

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 11:48 AM

View PostMole, on 13 September 2016 - 10:55 AM, said:

I'd actually be interested to know what some experienced pilots of Highlander IICs think about my theorycraft that I posted above. Take note of the way I stated it's supposed to be played though. The build really depends on being played right.


The short version is it's too hot. You can sling LRMs fairly well, but one or two volleys of those pulse lasers and UAC20 will cook you, and you're too big and slow to afford a shutdown in the middle of a fight.

If you want to focus on long range support, consider the following. Gauss instead of UAC20 to reduce heat, ER large lasers to reduce weight and increase range.

HGN-IIC-B

Edited by process, 13 September 2016 - 11:49 AM.


#43 Requiemking

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 12:03 PM

View PostMole, on 13 September 2016 - 10:55 AM, said:

I'd actually be interested to know what some experienced pilots of Highlander IICs think about my theorycraft that I posted above. Take note of the way I stated it's supposed to be played though. The build really depends on being played right.

Well, the problem with your theory is that it only really works well on that variant. The others don't really have enough hardpoints to make full use of LRMs, especially the IIC-C, which is currently the most popular variant.

#44 Nerd Incognito

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 12:13 PM

There are plenty more experienced people here to offer opinions, but this is what I would run instead.

Here's my reasoning:
You're right about not going SRM; that's the wrong range for this build, IMO. You don't want to be <270m, unless you're deliberately sharing armour in a push. Your sweet spot is going to be around 500m, keeping visual contact with the enemy and shooting the crap out of him overtop and around the front assault line. The LPLs give you a good opportunity to hit from range before things get going (and you've got just enough LRM ammo to waste a couple of volleys on unseen/awkward targets), and the AC/10 performs beautifully in that 500-700m niche. Artemis is essential, IMO, so I took the extra weight that you're saving going from the AC20 to the AC10 and added it. I also dropped another heatsink into the legs, because you never know when you're going to find a nice duck pond to stand in and cool off.

Oh, and if need be, you could always shave a bit of weight off of the armour to add another heatsink, but I wouldn't personally; I think the ROI would be poor, overall. You're better just pacing yourself a bit and not trying to alpha with it.

#45 Mole

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 12:38 PM

View PostVulcan500rider, on 13 September 2016 - 12:13 PM, said:

There are plenty more experienced people here to offer opinions, but this is what I would run instead.

Here's my reasoning:
You're right about not going SRM; that's the wrong range for this build, IMO. You don't want to be <270m, unless you're deliberately sharing armour in a push. Your sweet spot is going to be around 500m, keeping visual contact with the enemy and shooting the crap out of him overtop and around the front assault line. The LPLs give you a good opportunity to hit from range before things get going (and you've got just enough LRM ammo to waste a couple of volleys on unseen/awkward targets), and the AC/10 performs beautifully in that 500-700m niche. Artemis is essential, IMO, so I took the extra weight that you're saving going from the AC20 to the AC10 and added it. I also dropped another heatsink into the legs, because you never know when you're going to find a nice duck pond to stand in and cool off.

Oh, and if need be, you could always shave a bit of weight off of the armour to add another heatsink, but I wouldn't personally; I think the ROI would be poor, overall. You're better just pacing yourself a bit and not trying to alpha with it.

Hm. I like this build, just... kinda feel like AC/10s are weak enough that it's really only worth it if you can carry two of them. I could be totally wrong though seeing as I've never used a UAC/10 that is capable of double tap. Only experience with this caliber of autocannon is a couple of my Inner Sphere 'mechs that run dual AC/10. I'll keep this in mind and give it a shot when I get around to playing with the Highlander IICs.

Edited by Mole, 13 September 2016 - 12:40 PM.


#46 VitriolicViolet

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 01:13 PM

Give these a try although they do need XLs so they are expensive if you dont have some.

HGN-IIC
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...82ddbf15a7f52a2

3x C-MPL, 1x C-gauss and 3x C-A-LRM15s. runs coolish (31%) and as long as your 500-200m from the enemy its really good.
If you want to get closer switch out one of the LRMs for a SRM6 and switch Gauss to LBX-20. Either build works quite well i mastered this mech with the LBX-20 version.

HGN-IIC-C
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...39a2fb1e2fc2c8a

3x C-MPL, 2x C-SSRM6, 2x CUAC10. This build is a bit slower but hits way harder at a shortish distance. The TC5 allows 30% faster travel time on the CUACs so it should be easier to hit people. XL 270 with spd twk it only goes 52 kph so you need to choose where to go well. JJs allow some extra manoeuvrability. SSRMs for lights. I really like this build but it is slower than i tend to make my Highlanders, either Clan or IS.

Edited by VitriolicViolet, 13 September 2016 - 01:13 PM.


#47 Requiemking

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 02:38 PM

View PostVitriolicViolet, on 13 September 2016 - 01:13 PM, said:

HGN-IIC-C
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...39a2fb1e2fc2c8a

3x C-MPL, 2x C-SSRM6, 2x CUAC10. This build is a bit slower but hits way harder at a shortish distance. The TC5 allows 30% faster travel time on the CUACs so it should be easier to hit people. XL 270 with spd twk it only goes 52 kph so you need to choose where to go well. JJs allow some extra manoeuvrability. SSRMs for lights. I really like this build but it is slower than i tend to make my Highlanders, either Clan or IS.

That build is.....alright I guess? It's just, there are a lot more efficient ways of going about using the IIC-C. For example, CMPLs really aren't that great of a weapon, neither are SSRMs. This might work a little better.

HGN-IIC-C

#48 VitriolicViolet

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 04:30 PM

fair enough i dont really like er meds that much huge burn time, im primarily an IS pilot the only Clan mechs i have are the IICs and some Kitfoxes. Ill agree that SSRMs are worse in most ways than SRMs but with my ping and framerate its way easier to hit lights with them (260-410 ping and 15-25 FPS). My computer is crap same with my internet, cant tell if its the provider or Australias crappy infrastructure.

#49 PAQUERA

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Posted 13 September 2016 - 05:45 PM

View PostRequiemking, on 13 September 2016 - 10:24 AM, said:

If your using the IIC-C for Lurming with energy weapons, your doing it wrong. ALWAYS use your ballistic hardpoints when using IIC Highlanders. Not doing so is gimping your capabilities tremendously.

I dont have the Highlander IIC-C, im afraid

#50 PrimeMehster

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Posted 17 September 2016 - 06:40 PM

I gotta give major props to the HGN-IIC-C on this topic. Armor perks bringing it to 100 ton levels of front armor, accel perks allowing it to manuever like an accelerated heavy, and dual UAC-10s being a massively powerful and easy to use weapon system make this easily my favorite mech. I've found that this runs quite effectively as a fire-support mech and as a brawler, always serving to get a minimum of 450ish damage out on terrible games, and around 800+ damage with 2ish kills on average good games. Will it ever be a KDK-3? No, but those putting this in the trash tier are really just dismissing a diamond in the rough. Now, the other varients of the HGN-IIC? I can't give the same praise, I'm those above me have found a way to run the B and standard varients, but I can't use those at all. The HGN-IIC-C is anything but trash, and I've stopped taking leaderboard screenshots of outscoring KDK-3's, Atlas's, and Dire Wolves as a testament to that ability. Easily the most enjoyable and consistent mech in my lineup.

#51 Dee Eight

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Posted 17 September 2016 - 08:50 PM

To the comments of them being slow... you don't HAVE to leave the 270 rating engine in the things. A 325XL fits nicely and holds 15 DHS and boosts the speed to slightly better than that of a 360 in a 100 ton mech.

Edited by Dee Eight, 17 September 2016 - 08:50 PM.


#52 SlightlyMobileTurret

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Posted 17 September 2016 - 10:07 PM

I don't find 63 kph slow because I'm used to driving slower IS mechs, but lots of people like how faster assaults play and use them - BLRs, KDKs (it's fast for a 100 tonner), BNC etc.

And Prime is right, HGN-IIC-C is a solid mech.

#53 InspectorG

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Posted 18 September 2016 - 11:49 AM

Hoverlander llC-B
Brawler. Had good times in Solo, not sure about Group.

#54 TercieI

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Posted 18 September 2016 - 11:52 AM

View PostPAQUERA, on 13 September 2016 - 05:45 PM, said:

I dont have the Highlander IIC-C, im afraid


Pity. It's the only one that isn't garbage. It's pretty decent in fact.

#55 Jables McBarty

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Posted 23 January 2017 - 12:37 PM

Necro'ing this thread as I had a blast taking my HGN-IICs out of storage this past weekend.

First, my newest abomination, The Spreader:
1xLB20X (3tons)
4xASRM6 (4tons)
2xERPPC
XL325 + 7 external DHS
1xJJ

It has a glorious 98-point non-pinpoint alpha (hence the name), but if you can get the jump on somebody (ie within 20m) then it's good for the lols. One alpha takes you past 60% heat, which is why it's the only build I've run without Override constantly engaged.

ERPPCs make for good closing while maintaining the "single alpha" philosophy, though you can swap out LPLs instead. I just have a generic preference for PPCs over LPLs.

Quoting Inspector G as his Brawler is similar:

View PostInspectorG, on 18 September 2016 - 11:49 AM, said:






View Postprocess, on 01 August 2016 - 03:27 PM, said:

I finally had a breakthrough with my Highlander IIC builds. I started with builds that mirrored my IS Highlanders (Gauss+lasers, AC20+SRMs), but unfortunately the IS version does those builds better for a number of reasons.

The biggest problem it seems is that the IIC isn't well suited for fighting face to face. It doesn't have enough ballistics to suppress other assaults, it's not fast enough to run and gun, and it doesn't have enough hardpoints to boat anything effectively. People resort to LRMs because it keeps it out of the way, but unfortunately that's sort of a waste of an assault mech.

My most successful build now is a 3 ER PPC + 3 SRM/SSRM. The PPCs are fired in groups of 2 and 1, and it's great how they're grouped extremely close together and fairly high up. The 22 heatsinks make the heat very manageable. The SSRM/SRM do well for either anti-light protection or brawling if you have to. Basically the idea is to launch a constant stream of PPC fire until you need to move in. It's still fire support, but less passive than LRMs.

HGN-IIC

HGN-IIC


Interesting take on the IIC prime. I have a neurosis on my HGN-IICs where I can't leave any hardpoint unused, hence I'd never come up with this build myself, but it might be worth a shot.

View PostMole, on 13 September 2016 - 10:03 AM, said:

I've only ever theory crafted a Highlander IIC but I'll show you the build that I really wanna try.

HGN-IIC-B

Now before you say "Ew, LRM boat assault", it's not an LRM boat. I've had pretty rock solid success in many heavies and assaults and even one medium with putting a few smaller LRM launchers on it with light ammunition and then backing the rest up with brawling weapons. This works best on Clan 'mechs I've found. The Highlander IIC that I've theorycrafted would be played the same way I play my other 'mechs that bring LRMs but are not dedicated LRM boats. The LRMs would be used to inflict damage upon the enemy before I got in range of my heavier hitting weapons, basically as a closing weapon on the enemy or, in a worst case scenario, something to do while your team is camping. The LRMs have pretty minimal ammo so using them extensively will run you dry pretty fast, you're real objective while piloting this 'mech should be to close to bring your LPLs and that UAC/20 to bear at the same time on your target.

As you'll note, the heat efficiency is pretty low. You could replace those LRMs with SRMs but in my experience I have trouble with fire discipline when I get in range with a mix of SRMs, lasers, and ACs at brawling distance and I overheat myself pretty bad. With LRMs in the mix instead of SRMs though, I will be firing the LRMs at their optimal distance and holding fire with my brawling weapons, so no overheating there, and when brawling I will be firing my brawling weapons and holding fire on my LRMs, so no overheating there either.

View PostMole, on 13 September 2016 - 10:55 AM, said:

I'd actually be interested to know what some experienced pilots of Highlander IICs think about my theorycraft that I posted above. Take note of the way I stated it's supposed to be played though. The build really depends on being played right.


I wanted to try something similar this past weekend but didn't feel like taking Artemis off my IIC-B, so I settled for something like 2ERPPCs, 3ALRM10, 1NARC, 1UAC/5.

#56 Brizna

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Posted 28 January 2017 - 04:31 PM

Do not take this as an endorsement from me of the build I'll post, just as an slight improvement of your Spreader ™ build: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...2e191d069190611

#57 JudauAshta

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Posted 29 January 2017 - 01:13 AM

highlander 2c is meh, if you like meh mechs just get a executioner.

big, slow, doesn't specialize in anything.

#58 PhoenixFire55

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 03:08 AM

View PostJudauAshta, on 29 January 2017 - 01:13 AM, said:

doesn't specialize in anything.


That part ain't true tho. Its the tankiest of them all and soaks damage bar none.

Edited by PhoenixFire55, 30 January 2017 - 03:08 AM.


#59 Stf Sgt Marblez

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 07:30 PM

What an executioner? Really? I find them to feel like fat gargoyles when I come across them

#60 Jep Jorgensson

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Posted 30 January 2017 - 08:47 PM

View PostRequiemking, on 25 June 2016 - 03:25 PM, said:

So, before the Rescale the Highlander IIC was considered a trash-tier Clan Assault, mainly because of how painfully slow it was. Now that it has quirks, especially the accel/decel quirks it needed, is it still the "High-end trash-tier" Clan Assault? Or is it now actually useful?

What are you talking about? My Highlander IIC is and has always been hands down one of my finest mechs. Hit me in-game or come by our ts channel on the Clan server. We can talk about then.

STRANAMECHTY.INFO PW: StranaMechty.

We are about halfway down the server channel list.





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