122 replies to this topic

[ExoForce]

Yea, I see it from Your sig.

[Mystere]

Gorgo7, on 26 June 2016 - 10:17 AM, said:

A perfect storm all told. Not evidence of a broken map. Perhaps if the Oxides cool down were fiddled with? That might "Fix" the map for you.

Meh! "Fixing" a map by nerfing a Mech is not a "fix". It's catering to the lowest common denominator. MWO has already had a lot of that and I'm having none of it anymore. <shrugs>

Edited by Mystere, 26 June 2016 - 11:08 AM.

[Mystere]

Kubernetes, on 26 June 2016 - 10:35 AM, said:

Honestly, many of the complaints about maps and meta would go away if we were allowed to pick our mech from a dropdeck after map selection. People could (and would) bring specific builds for maps like Polar or Terra, instead of getting hosed because you brought the wrong mech.

I'm afraid, unless handled/designed carefully, that might just encourage meta-wh0ring even more.

Now if for example we only had 3 Mechs in a deck, 6 or more terrain types, and 3 or more map sizes, that just might work.

[wanderer]

Gorgo7, on 26 June 2016 - 10:17 AM, said:

Mcchugernaut,
Relax, it is a good map for missiles but that is all it is. It is not a broken map.
That video of your buddy is sweet!
However, he had a LOT of help from his team. They aggressive pushed in and locked him targets and distracted the enemy. The locust he ignored would have killed him if the pilot had thought to slow stay inside his minimum and aim at him. He was very lucky there.

He didn't get killed by the LRM Oxide. His buddy in the heavy shot the Locust to death while he was skittering around to spread it's damage some

[Kroete]

Mcchuggernaut, on 26 June 2016 - 08:09 AM, said:

Honestly, I'm tired of talking about this. Debating the effectiveness of LRM counter-measures is, for the tenth time now, straying from the main point and topic: Polar Highlands allowing one weapon type to dominate because of the poor design of the map.

I get killed by every weapon more often then lrms and i dont have even unlocked the radar-crutch ...

Maybe we should increase the heat of every map where i get killed by lasers then?
Its poor mapdesign, if they are all that cool that lasers can kill me!
Let them all get more heat, until lasers need as much time as lrms need to kill me !!!1Eleven

wanderer, on 26 June 2016 - 08:29 AM, said:

Speaking of maps, most missile boaters will basically throw their hands up and go "whelp, I'm trash this round" every time you pick Mining Collective.

Seriously, it's like you want your PUG to randomly have it's guns crippled. At least on Crimson we're useful enough to force people under the docks for you and can reasonably get to brawl range.

Have I mentioned lately I'd love to see unlocked LRMs fire in a flat arc so I can actually shoot things in tunnels?

Mining Collective: 5 kills, 900+ damage in an old c1 yesterday. Most selftargeted, some with lasers ...

Crimson is great, if you can do "King of the Hill" with some lrms (i like it more for lrms then polar).
Dont know why only 1 in 20 matches a light trys to come up there to stop the lobbing?

Edited by Kroete, 26 June 2016 - 11:36 AM.

[IdolElite]

I hardly ever use LRMs and I love polar highlands.

[Kubernetes]

Mystere, on 26 June 2016 - 11:06 AM, said:

I'm afraid, unless handled/designed carefully, that might just encourage meta-wh0ring even more.

But which meta? You would see builds specific to maps and temps, but I see that as a plus. People run laser vomit because it's a good jack-of-all-trades, not because it owns every other build in every situation. I love short range brawlers, but it's always a big gamble in QP. I took out my cSPL-laden Nova today and first drop I got Polar. Experiences like that is why people say "eff it, I'm just going to load up on LPLs and MLs and spray people from range."

And really, it makes no sense for a mech company to drop on a planet with the same builds regardless of terrain or temp.

"We're dropping on Alpine."
"Shoot, my Atlas will be useless there. Can I drop in my Mauler instead?"
"Nope, no can do. Enjoy your death."

[Mystere]

Kubernetes, on 26 June 2016 - 12:13 PM, said:

And really, it makes no sense for a mech company to drop on a planet with the same builds regardless of terrain or temp.

Which is why you can select from a limited drop deck only.

How many Mech companies have several dozen rides each merc can choose from?

[Gorgo7]

wanderer, on 26 June 2016 - 11:09 AM, said:

He didn't get killed by the LRM Oxide. His buddy in the heavy shot the Locust to death while he was skittering around to spread it's damage some

Oh yeah, I realized that the Orion got the Locust. But the locust moved out of his 180m range and got shot by him then circled him twice and was unable to hit him with ANY accuracy. The Orion engaged him later in the fight and Oxide knew he had an escort(who apologized for not killing the locust fast enough!).
It was an easy match for the Oxide pilot. Perfect storm.

[Beartech]

Mcchuggernaut, on 26 June 2016 - 03:50 AM, said:

There are spots where the map is just too open for this to work, and a spotter can just keep targeting you even if you hide in a ditch and move. Especially for the bigger mechs. Also, NARC still = certain death.

So teamwork wins? I'm sorry a weapon that requires a spotter to function halfway decent deserves to kill you if it was used correctly.

Situational awareness also... specifically on that map. If you see nothing but missiles in the sky, then perhaps you and your team need to communicate and advance using the trenches.

LRM if anything need a buff... but that will never happen because of the tears.

[Pjwned]

Mcchuggernaut, on 26 June 2016 - 03:39 AM, said:

Edit: Since people keep missing the damn point and keep posting stupid shite about "Just hide in the trenches, blah, blah..." and disregarding the fact that tall cover is the ONLY counter for certain situations, and that having none on Polar is it's problem, I'll just leave this right here. The chaos starts about 2 minutes in:



Counter THIS guy on your flank on Polar in a pug match. Really, I would like to see you try.

Since you are such a baddie bad scrublord whiner for whining about a LRM Oxide of all things, I'm going to tell you what to do in emphasis you can't possibly miss.

BRING SOME AMS!!!!! IT'S CALLED ANTI MISSILE SYSTEM FOR A REASON.

You know what would have completely neutered LRM5 spam like that? AMS. Even if you were literally the only person on the team who had AMS and you were in that situation where you completely failed to find suitable cover and were getting rocked by the almighty firepower of LRM5 spam (read: obvious sarcasm), your lone AMS would have cut down the damage by about half, and with only 1 extra mech with AMS that LRM spam would have been completely ineffective.

Even in the case where you're dealing with some LRM firepower that poses an actual threat and you find yourself getting rained on, it's still your fault for 1) not bringing AMS and 2) being way out in the open with no cover anywhere near you.

There's no excuse to not carry AMS when literally every mech in the game can carry it, except for the CDA-X5 which is the one mech that can't carry AMS and that is the sole exception. I didn't see a single AMS going off in that video.

Edited by Pjwned, 26 June 2016 - 03:53 PM.

[Chuck Jager]

I really do not mind 1-2 maps that specifically favors a play style or build even the ones I do not agree with.

This approach means folks who play differently from me also have a chance at enjoying the game too.

[Bishop Steiner]

Chuck Jager, on 26 June 2016 - 03:53 PM, said:

I really do not mind 1-2 maps that specifically favors a play style or build even the ones I do not agree with.

This approach means folks who play differently from me also have a chance at enjoying the game too.

Heaven forbid playstyles beside what the OP alone prefers be allowed ot be played and enjoyed!!!

[Fut]

Mcchuggernaut, on 26 June 2016 - 03:50 AM, said:

There are spots where the map is just too open for this to work, and a spotter can just keep targeting you even if you hide in a ditch and move. Especially for the bigger mechs. Also, NARC still = certain death.

While true, I don't see this as a problem.
Why does every single part of every single map have to have adequate cover for all situations? The maps already feel too much like maps, as opposed to just a random chunk of terrain we're battling in. If we end up putting hard/tall cover to block LRMs ever X Meters in every direction things are going to feel way too forced.

Also, do you AMS at all? Just curious.
Seems like a lot of people who complain about LRMs don't take the first, most basic form of defence for themselves - The Anti-Missile System that every single Mech (besides my beloved CDA-X5) can equip.

[Carl Vickers]

Other thread 21 pages long, this thread 4 pages long, when will it end.

[Funkin Disher]

I dunno man, AMS seems to do a petty good job of countering LRMs. Spend 1.5 tons and 2 slots to counter 3+ tons and 2+ slots, seems like a good deal.

And that's not even counting LoS, ECM and other things you can do to minimize exposure.

[Mcchuggernaut]

Pjwned, on 26 June 2016 - 03:48 PM, said:

(Varied exceptional rudeness and e-peen waving)

People don't run AMS for one reason: There are very few maps where it is advantageous at all. You think I'm mad about Jenners running LRM5s? A spotter (even worse, a NARCer) working with a boat using massed volleys renders AMS worthless. The Jenner video was just an example, and you can counter multiple small volleys easily with AMS at least till your AMS ammo runs out. This isn't about the LRM Jenner. It's about bad map balance favoring one weapon type over another. The new Frozen City did it right: you have situations for all types of combat on one map. Polar did it wrong, favoring long-range, LRMS, and ******** on brawlers. It also allowed for situations that can easily result in you being a worthless walking target regardless of how well you play or how you use terrain. For the ten-thousadth time this thread: There isn't any bitching about LRMS. I would be happy with an LRM buff. But if you build a map to unfairly favor a weapon type without allowing people to choose a loadout suited to the map your are going to encounter, you are sometimes going to get **** on by random chance instead of losing because of lack of skill. People don't like that. It takes away from the game and adds a feeling of your skill not actually mattering. It's stupid, when a well-balanced map allows for all builds, when played well, to be worth while.

Additionally, all these people with their "quit whining and run AMS!": I seriously doubt most of them actually use it (except as a forum argument). I'm not seeing it in-game, so where are all these supposed skilled AMS gods of the battlefield? Sure as hell not in the competitive tiers. Most likely just full of BS.

Edited by Mcchuggernaut, 26 June 2016 - 05:05 PM.

[Accused]

Going to skip the discussion and say this, Polar Highlands is the best map in the game.

[Chados]

wanderer, on 26 June 2016 - 07:58 AM, said:

A team that uses AMS will reduce LRM40s to almost nothing and severely mitigate even LRM 60, plus they automatically swat NARC that isn't fired at under 200m (and given multiple AMS nearby, sometimes that isn't even enough).

This. I typically run an ALRM-30 outfit on my missile CPLTs other than the BB, and also on a ZEU-6T, which can spam LRM-10 like most MDDs can spam LRM-5, so I can mount credible secondaries to deal with LRM hunters and so I can work from close range for armor sharing. And I've seen entire 30-missile salvos or worse, chained ALRM-15, wiped out by an enemy deathball with six or seven AMS firing together.

And New Frozen City is nothing but ER Large Lasers and gauss snipers as far as the eye can see, though I'm beginning to see some familiar landmarks now and then. It's all still there like it used to be, just taller and more detailed.

Edited by Chados, 26 June 2016 - 07:04 PM.

[Mystere]

Mcchuggernaut, on 26 June 2016 - 04:45 PM, said:

Additionally, all these people with their "quit whining and run AMS!": I seriously doubt most of them actually use it (except as a forum argument). I'm not seeing it in-game, so where are all these supposed skilled AMS gods of the battlefield? Sure as hell not in the competitive tiers. Most likely just full of BS.

I think you're missing a very subtle point. I've underlined it as a hint.