93 replies to this topic

[Mystere]

Sader325, on 26 June 2016 - 03:16 PM, said:

Sorry,I don't agree with this because theres plenty of times you come across people who gambled and got the perfect map for their mech. It shouldn't be chance based at all. Part of the skill of this game is knowing what to bring, and when to bring it. This is a PvP game, part of the PvP is having the right mech for the job every time.

How about another point of view?

This is a PvP game and part of PvP is preparing for as many eventualities as possible.

Procurator Derek, on 26 June 2016 - 03:46 PM, said:

Just add one thing to this;

If you change your mech, the enemy will see what you're bringing. There, done.

That's easily avoidable by selecting the Mech at the last second.

Kubernetes, on 26 June 2016 - 03:47 PM, said:

So it's realistic for a commander to drop his company on a planet with no consideration at all for terrain or temp?

In the BT universe, IS mechs are nowhere near as customizable as what we have in MWO. That is the BT reality.

[Qwkdraw]

Seems like a simple way that wouldn’t mess with the queue selection would be to allow you to save 2 to 4 configurations for your chosen mech and then you could choose your build based on the map. As a bonus you could make the camo and color schemes part of the build (might sell more colors and camo that way also) .

Edited by Qwkdraw, 26 June 2016 - 04:18 PM.

[Vashramire]

As much as people like having choices, I'm not sure we need to give people more. People already have the choice to pick mechs they suck at with bad builds, on maps and game modes people hate. This would just give people a reason to ***** more about why they supposedly lost. It seems a nice thought though for those that have common sense.

[Scout Derek]

Mystere, on 26 June 2016 - 04:14 PM, said:

That's easily avoidable by selecting the Mech at the last second.

???

If you can see what they're bringing....

how is that avoidable?

If they've got the Mech chassis and variant next to their name for the remainder of the match, how is that avoidable?

[Nameless King]

No this is a horrible idea.

[Kubernetes]

I feel like the naysayers have never played a match in FW. Seriously, mech selection doesn't suck, and it makes gameplay much more enjoyable.

[Sader325]

Kubernetes, on 26 June 2016 - 04:56 PM, said:

I feel like the naysayers have never played a match in FW. Seriously, mech selection doesn't suck, and it makes gameplay much more enjoyable.

Exactly, we don't go in blind in FW.

I pick the exact mechs I need for the job in FW. Cold map? Hot mechs, Hot map? Dakka boats. Brawl map? Brawlers. Long Range? Snipers. Offense? Heavy / mediums. Defense? Assaults.

All of this exists in CW and it makes the mode more competitive not less.

Edited by Sader325, 26 June 2016 - 05:14 PM.

[Kubernetes]

Sader325, on 26 June 2016 - 05:13 PM, said:

Exactly, we don't go in blind in FW.

I pick the exact mechs I need for the job in FW. Cold map? Hot mechs, Hot map? Dakka boats. Brawl map? Brawlers. Long Range? Snipers. Offense? Heavy / mediums. Defense? Assaults.

All of this exists in CW and it makes the mode more competitive not less.

Yup, I found that FW got really expensive because I ended up buying dozens more modules to outfit all the builds I wanted/needed. Heck, for the first time I started buying more copies of the same chassis so I could have the right builds on hand. I have specific mechs ready just for defense on one particular map, or ones for counterattack on another. At least when my team wins or loses a match, I know that it's because of factors like teamwork and pilot quality, not "which side got stuck with more useless mechs." (although that does happen somewhat with noobs and trial mechs).

Edited by Kubernetes, 26 June 2016 - 05:22 PM.

[MOBAjobg]

If mech is selectable before the start of play, a penalty needs to be paid such as armor loss, etc.

[adamts01]

Kubernetes, on 26 June 2016 - 03:29 PM, said:

I have a couple Atlases in my garage. I've driven them twice this year. Why? Because the two times I pulled out my Atlas-S I got Polar and then Alpine. Why would I want to drive a mech that's a total roll of the die? I don't.

I feel you on the Atlas. If you run the brawler setup on Polar you absolutely need your tEaM to work together. But in MWO.....tEaM.....EaM.....EM.....ME..... ME ME ME ME ME


I'm absolutely against this proposal. My thoughts mostly mirror those of Alistair. The reason some of these maps play differently is because of the different composition of teams. I don't want to see all Hellbringers on Polar, all Atlas on Mining, all JJ mechs on Canyon. Diversity is good, the team that thinks, adapts and plays to their strengths is victorious. Figuring out how to make your less than optimal team work is the last "thinking" part this game has left.

[Kubernetes]

This is just bizarre. It's like people enjoy playing games that randomly handicap you. And you wonder why there's a laser vomit meta? It's the build that least puts you at the mercy of Map Selection Jesus. There's no map that just renders laser vomit flat out useless. Even on hot maps you can still be very effective.

Maps play differently because the teams are a clumsy compilation of mechs, some of which are well-suited for the map, some of which do okay, and some of which are completely useless. If it turns out that your best pilots are in the worst mechs, you're done. So much for skill, let's just give it up for Map Selection Jesus.

[2fast2stompy]

This would just mean you always fight brawlers on brawling maps, always fight snipers on alpine, dakka on hot maps, etc. Maybe that would make the game more fun for some people, but I don't see it as a good thing.

Your argument about realism also does not actually work in battletech, since people aren't sitting on 100 mechs they can just transport across space and switch out as they please, much like a tank driver or airforce pilot can't pick what he wants to use for a particular engagement in the middle of a world war.

[TyphonCh]

I didn't think Sader, someone who is clearly very experienced and a good player, would make a proposition like this. You'd think he know what kind of a bad idea this would be.

1) Min-maxing to every map. The game would be... Bad. Everyone fields lasers on cold maps. Everyone brings ballistics on hot. Etc. Big trouble little China.
2) Adds another massive power gap to new players and vets. Vets and players that have been playing longer have more mechs to field, thus more options to adapt to different maps. New players with only a handful of mechs don't have this option. See 1.

Edited by Team Chevy86, 26 June 2016 - 05:47 PM.

[Mystere]

Procurator Derek, on 26 June 2016 - 04:50 PM, said:

???

If you can see what they're bringing....

how is that avoidable?

If they've got the Mech chassis and variant next to their name for the remainder of the match, how is that avoidable?

I thought you were referring to last-second enemy Mech selection and changing yours to compensate.

[Scout Derek]

Mystere, on 26 June 2016 - 06:49 PM, said:

I thought you were referring to last-second enemy Mech selection and changing yours to compensate.

Details are Lostech over here for me it seems.

[adamts01]

Kubernetes, on 26 June 2016 - 05:37 PM, said:

If it turns out that your best pilots are in the worst mechs, you're done. So much for skill, let's just give it up for Map Selection Jesus.

The best pilots figure out how to make their mech work, that's part of being a good pilot. Don't bring a 1 trick pony unless you know how to make it work.

I think the real problem is the state of the game, boat or go home. If you didn't have to bring 4, 6, + of a weapon to make it useful you'd be able to afford a little more variety in your builds.

Sader325, on 26 June 2016 - 01:27 PM, said:

If I see polar highlands and I'm in an Ebon Jaguar, I should be able to switch to a hellbringer, or any other 65 ton mech I own if I feel like it.

Does that mean people will be able to bring more optimized builds for each map? Yes, which in turn means people will play better and matches will be more difficult. Personally I find more challenge to be a good thing.

I just don't want to see nothing but Hellbringers, Mad Dogs and Ravens on Polar, call me crazy. I watched your entire video on LRMing, very good work. I still think LRM10s can have a place, but I overall agree. Anyway, like my statement above says, mixed builds like you ran can adapt to any situation and should be a stronger option. Hopefully once Ghost Heat 2.0 arrives this game won't be all about boating weapons and huge alphas.

[Maugged]

adamts01, on 26 June 2016 - 07:47 PM, said:

The best pilots figure out how to make their mech work, that's part of being a good pilot. Don't bring a 1 trick pony unless you know how to make it work.

I think the real problem is the state of the game, boat or go home. If you didn't have to bring 4, 6, + of a weapon to make it useful you'd be able to afford a little more variety in your builds.

The more you post the more i believe you're biased and cognitively limited to make such general BS statements.

Edited by Maugged, 26 June 2016 - 08:01 PM.

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

I don't think tabletop BT players randomly generate if their map is geographically ice or desert to calculate the effect ambient air temperature has on weapon heat or randomly select if the terrain the battle takes place on is better for brawler builds or long range builds.

There's no need for tabletop players to adjust builds to suit different enrivonments because afaik all environments are the same.

I wouldn't mind if the idea of switching mechs with equal tonnage were tried on a trial basis. Maybe every 3rd match, or every 5th match could have mech selection enabled and all the other matches were standard to see what would happen. Its tough to predict whether it would be good or bad there are so many variables.

Some possible scenarios: one team goes heavy LRM boat on polar highlands with no TAG, everyone on the opposing team goes brawler ECM builds. Polar highlands again: one team goes all LRM's, the other team boats ER large lasers and tries to leg the opposing teams LRM boats from outside 1,000 m where LRM's aren't very effective.

Another scenario: one team on polar highlands boats LRM's. The other boats AMS.

There are a lot of counters in this game. Having LRM's on polar highlands doesn't guarantee everyone will use the same mech, same builds or the same tactics. The same might be said about other maps. Even if people knew what map they were dropping in it wouldn't mean they wouldn't have different ideas about what the best builds to use were.

Sorry if this isn't the most coherent post btw. Am a bit distracted right now with other things.

Edited by I Zeratul I, 26 June 2016 - 08:49 PM.

[adamts01]

Maugged, on 26 June 2016 - 07:59 PM, said:

The more you post the more i believe you're biased and cognitively limited to make such general BS statements.

What's BS? Play to your build's advantage. With few exceptions (Brawler Atlas, straight LRM boats) there's a way to do this. SPL Nova on Alpine for example. Spot UAVs for your team, keep the ankle biters away, and stay fresh for the finale. The snipers will be picked apart by then, most brawlers aren't patient and are probably weakened. I've had some of my best matches in that mech on that map.

[S 0 L E N Y A]

No. I enjoy watching the poor sucker that brought a 5 ERLL hopper to Terra Therma, even if sometimes that sucker is me.