39 replies to this topic

[Pendragon58]

Just started playing Mech Warrior and I was wondering why in 3rd person you don't have a mini map of some sort like you do when your in cockpit? It would seem logical that some of the info you have in cockpit would be in 3rd person as well?

[feeWAIVER]

You're really not supposed to play in 3rd person. They added it to help newbies who get stuck on rocks.
The removed the mini map and such to compensate for the fact that 3rd person provides more immediate situational awareness.. and again, you're really not supposed to play in 3rd person.

[Pendragon58]

Is that the official word, or just your opinion, because it seems silly to me to give you the option to play that way(newbie or otherwise) and not give you all the tools? I can see if you want the whole immersive thing, but it seems as a gamer where situational awareness is key in this game I would want more FOV.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Pendragon58, on 26 June 2016 - 07:50 PM, said:

Is that the official word, or just your opinion, because it seems silly to me to give you the option to play that way(newbie or otherwise) and not give you all the tools? I can see if you want the whole immersive thing, but it seems as a gamer where situational awareness is key in this game I would want more FOV.

PGI had to appease those who wanted to 3PV so they did so in a way that no one would actually use it by making it not give any real benefits over 1PV. This was back when PGI was still trying to make the game more sim like. They never really got around to it... *cough* netcode *cough*

Ultimately, 3PV does 2 things


1. It helps newbies keep from getting stuck on rocks.

2. It's a periscope for lolcust submarines.

Edited by Narcissistic Martyr, 26 June 2016 - 08:00 PM.

[AnTi90d]

3PV is nearly useless in MWO because of poptarts.

In MW4 the meta was to boat PPCs/Gauss/ACs on a mech with jump jets and 3PV. You found a rock to hide behind, jumped up, shot someone and fell back down, akin to a poptart in a toaster when the cycle is done.

This was an extremely boring meta to participate in. One of the only decent decisions from the developers of MWO was to take steps to limit the power of tarts.

I'm glad that they nerfed JJs and added target reticle shake. I'm pretty neutral on whether 3PV should or shouldn't have a minimap.

[Escef]

Pendragon58, on 26 June 2016 - 07:50 PM, said:

Is that the official word, or just your opinion, because it seems silly to me to give you the option to play that way(newbie or otherwise) and not give you all the tools? I can see if you want the whole immersive thing, but it seems as a gamer where situational awareness is key in this game I would want more FOV.

Yes, that's basically the official word. Back when the 3PV drone was added back in open beta there was a massive sh**storm over it. The mnimap was removed because the drone actually does give you some ability to see to your sides and over rises that you would not otherwise have. 3PV was initially added to allow new players to see how their legs and torsos can, will, and often do point in different directions. (3PV also forces arm-lock to toggle on. This locks your arm movement to your torsos, which severely limits your ability to fire arm mounted weapons up or down hill, and hampers you in close quarters combat where the extra few degrees of lateral movement that many mechs have in their arms makes a huge difference.)

Honestly, it is far easier, I have found, to rely on the cone/arrow in your minimap (this actually burned many of us badly when the last patch removed those elements, which were hotfixed back in after less than 36 hours in response to MASSIVE community backlash). Failing the minimap, there's the 2 arrows in your compass at the top of your HUD (Heads Up Display). There's also what many not-so-affectionately call the "newb arrow", which paints an arrow in front of you to show the direction of your legs (the arrow tends to disappear under terrain at times, which hampers its usefulness)... I highly recommend the minimap method, as it gets you in the habit of looking at the minimap and also seeing relative positions of nearby teammates and enemies.

The 3PV setting was never well received, never well liked, and is rarely used. (The blinking red light on the 3PV drone also can give your position away from a good 2000 meters out.) Every now and again there's a newer player using it as a crutch, or an experienced player popping it out briefly to peek over a ridge. Even if you had minimap data, however, the 3PV is not a good way to play the game.

[Chuck Jager]

Yup, I came into the game a couple of years ago a bit after it was implemented and it was still a SH*t storm. 3pv was specifically gimped to keep from a public lynching, and there were still many folks carrying a torch and pitchfork.

Unlike aircraft and tank games that have 3pv as an option in general mode and 1pv in advanced modes, the smaller player base and past MW games have a tradition of 1pv.

So learn to read the map and buy a seismic sensor ASAP, from a friendly hint not a troll comment.

[Mystere]

Narcissistic Martyr, on 26 June 2016 - 07:57 PM, said:

PGI had to appease those who wanted to 3PV ...

Ahem! You have it backwards.

PGI gimped 3PV to appease the haters, which was a really giant shame because PGI could have improved it into something like this instead.

Edited by Mystere, 26 June 2016 - 10:42 PM.

[TKSax]

Chuck Jager, on 26 June 2016 - 09:13 PM, said:

Yup, I came into the game a couple of years ago a bit after it was implemented and it was still a SH*t storm. 3pv was specifically gimped to keep from a public lynching, and there were still many folks carrying a torch and pitchfork.

My biggest issue was not that they added 3pv, but the whole way they handled the information of added 3pv, but we all know PGI and communication are sometimes diametrically opposed.

[Jeb]

If you see anyone with a red flashy thing above them, they are in 3rd person (that is the drone) and you can see it from really far away, so using 3rd person really gives your location away to the enemy.

[Revis Volek]

AnTi90d, on 26 June 2016 - 08:02 PM, said:

3PV is nearly useless in MWO because of poptarts.

In MW4 the meta was to boat PPCs/Gauss/ACs on a mech with jump jets and 3PV. You found a rock to hide behind, jumped up, shot someone and fell back down, akin to a poptart in a toaster when the cycle is done.

This was an extremely boring meta to participate in. One of the only decent decisions from the developers of MWO was to take steps to limit the power of tarts.

I'm glad that they nerfed JJs and added target reticle shake. I'm pretty neutral on whether 3PV should or shouldn't have a minimap.

Were you here when poptarts existed?

And you are happy we have hover jets?
Only person in the whole community i think.

[AnTi90d]

Revis Volek, on 27 June 2016 - 10:34 AM, said:

Were you here when poptarts existed?

And you are happy we have hover jets?
Only person in the whole community i think.

When poptarts were in MWO, I was playing Japanese MMO mecha-shooters.

I am very glad that JJs are nerfed into the ground. MW4 matches quickly went from very fun to very boring when poptarters waltzed into the server.

The only way I'd support full-strength JJs would be if all weapons were disabled when a mech's feet weren't in contact with the ground.

[JediPanther]

I don't care for 3pv but I use it some times to check out my mech or when my eyes are having trouble with map textures. The best use of it by far is when you have some idiot in solo play using the all chat to give away your location. Not having that map means the said a hole can't give you out any more.

[Mechwarrior1441491]

Because you aren't supposed to play it in 3rd person.

[Revis Volek]

AnTi90d, on 27 June 2016 - 11:08 AM, said:

When poptarts were in MWO, I was playing Japanese MMO mecha-shooters.

I am very glad that JJs are nerfed into the ground. MW4 matches quickly went from very fun to very boring when poptarters waltzed into the server.

The only way I'd support full-strength JJs would be if all weapons were disabled when a mech's feet weren't in contact with the ground.

So you are talking about things you know nothing about.....


Right.


This isnt MW4.

JediPanther, on 27 June 2016 - 11:12 AM, said:

I don't care for 3pv but I use it some times to check out my mech or when my eyes are having trouble with map textures. The best use of it by far is when you have some idiot in solo play using the all chat to give away your location. Not having that map means the said a hole can't give you out any more.

All you have to do is press f9 and you can get location.


so nice try but if you are hiding and not playing game mode/afk/troll you deserved to be called out.

[Coolant]

+1 for a full-featured 3rd person mode just like MW4 had.

[Mechwarrior1441491]

Yes. More wasted dev time on that instead of game modes and game play fixes. *sarcasm*

[JadePanther]

3PV was never an intended feature.. In fact early selling points was the vehement promise never to put 3PV in the game..

but because they didnt have a proper turtorial like the acadamy in the game; they watched tons of new players at CONS try the game, get stuck walking into a building, and walk away frustrated cause they didnt understand torsos twist like a tank turret..

They put 3PV in just as a learning mechanic for these people to see what thier mech is doing.. But they left out most all of the hud elements so not to completly and uttery break the spirit of the game and turn it into something akin to armored core..


the cockpit is where all the action is at, and thats the way it was meant to be..

[MauttyKoray]

Pendragon58, on 26 June 2016 - 07:40 PM, said:

Just started playing Mech Warrior and I was wondering why in 3rd person you don't have a mini map of some sort like you do when your in cockpit? It would seem logical that some of the info you have in cockpit would be in 3rd person as well?

The point to the minimap is situational awareness. While being in 3rd person also gives you sort of a version of this. It also however allows you to see around obstacles you normally shouldn't (like the difference between first and third person shooter) which can be considered an unfair advantage. So they don't give you a minimap and there's a little floating drone above/behind you that is literally sitting where your camera is (where you're seeing from) and other players can see that.

MWO was originally only first person because Mechwarrior as a series is meant to be a semi-simulation mech pilot game. Third person is considered cheesy and a violation of the semi-sim style, but was added to help new players who aren't used to tank style driving/piloting (a turret that turns on top of a lower body/legs) retain/get their bearings.

[GenghisJr]

3rd person is training wheels for beginners, it helps with orientation and gives a feel for whats going on. What it also is is a target that can be seen across the map, that floats above cover to reveal position and a guide for where you should be aiming your Gauss rifle if the target cant be seen. Check the NGNG youtube channel, there is a vid of an Adder learing about this the hard way which is good for a laugh