71 replies to this topic

[Pariah Devalis]

The day you all get IS Omnimechs is the day I laugh myself to insanity. Have fun with your SHS and locked internal and armor options. Oh, and those locked engine sizes and types.


Maybe then the people on high will realize just how shafted omnis tend to be within this game (with only a couple exceptions being pre optimized in regards to engine size, internals, armor, and locked equipment), as compared to battlemechs. On that day, maybe, maybe mechs like the Summoner, Mad Dog, or Gargoyle will get the options they need to not be poor options.

Maybe.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 28 June 2016 - 02:14 PM.

[Coralld]

Pariah Devalis, on 28 June 2016 - 02:12 PM, said:

The day you all get IS Omnimechs is the day I laugh myself to insanity. Have fun with your SHS and locked internal and armor options. Oh, and those locked engine sizes and types.


Maybe then the people on high will realize just how shafted omnis tend to be within this game (with only a couple exceptions being pre optimized in regards to engine size, internals, armor, and locked equipment), as compared to battlemechs. On that day, maybe, maybe mechs like the Summoner, Mad Dog, or Gargoyle will get the options they need to not be poor options.

Maybe.

The Mad Dog is not "gimped" because of Omni construction rules, it's problem is hit boxes and no amount of unlocking stuff will ever change that.
Not familiar with the Summoner or Gargles personally.

I am not against unlocking SOME things on Omni mechs, I'm just against unlocking all the things on Omni mechs.

Edited by Coralld, 28 June 2016 - 02:23 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Coralld, on 28 June 2016 - 02:20 PM, said:

The Mad Dog is not "gimped" because of Omni construction rules, it's problem is hit boxes and no amount of unlocking stuff will ever change that.
Not familiar with the Summoner or Gargles personally.

Unlocking it would help a little bit since you could get Endo on top of Ferro and bump up the engine for brawling loadouts, but speed won't save it that much.

[Coralld]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 28 June 2016 - 02:24 PM, said:

Unlocking it would help a little bit since you could get Endo on top of Ferro and bump up the engine for brawling loadouts, but speed won't save it that much.

As some one who regularly brawls in a unorthodox Mad Dog and does well with it (2x UAC5s, 4x SRM4s) it's engine size is not that bad. Endo would be nice but that would only really help with say a duel Gauss build or something like that.
Again, it's biggest problem is hit boxes.

Edited by Coralld, 28 June 2016 - 02:31 PM.

[Pariah Devalis]

Coralld, on 28 June 2016 - 02:30 PM, said:

As some one who regularly brawls in a unorthodox Mad Dog and does well with it (2x UAC5s, 4x SRM4s) it's engine size is not that bad. Endo would be nice but that would only really help with say a duel Gauss build or something like that.
Again, it's biggest problem is hit boxes.

Screwed might be overselling it a bit in the case of the Mad Dog, but consider: giving it both endo and ferro would bump it to 29 tons of pod space, with fully maxed out armor. It would be one hell of a 60 ton mech. Terrible hitboxes, but a lot of firepower for its weight.

Same goes for the Hellbringer, IIRC. Except with bonus ECM option. Not that the Hellbringer needs to be better, but it certainly would open up some loadout options on the chassis beyond laser vomit.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 28 June 2016 - 02:44 PM.

[ScarecrowES]

There aren't very many inner sphere omnis that would actually work under the MWO model.

The Arctic Fox might be ok at 30 tons, but it's incredibly slow for that weight at 97kph and a locked XL engine. Might be a good ambusher though... like an Adder. But we're going to need 3059 and the ARDC for that (squeeee!).

Avatar maybe. Hauptmann. Men Shen.

[Walsung]

early innersphere omnis were complete piles of excrement no one is going to buy mechs with locked SHS, unless they give you a good reason to take them, maybe as power draw is implemented it will favor dps more over alpha and heat dissipation becomes more important then heat cap. Limited build customization without the weight savings of clan weapons and the space savings of clan everything. unless the chassis is an optimized build and then it will be touch and go will definitely put the kibosh on sales and after the PHX i think people will be more risk averse in pre-ordering (I know i will).

[Trauglodyte]

Garfuncle, on 28 June 2016 - 12:52 PM, said:

So the IICs and the Kodiak have given the Clans battlemechs with clan tech, making them some of the most versatile chassis in the game.

IS, at this point, should be coming out with their reverse-engineered Omnis:

Owens Light Omnimech: http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Owens

Strider Medium Omnimech: http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Strider

Avatar Heavy Omnimech:http://www.sarna.net...vatar_(OmniMech) Link broken, search Avatar (Omnimech) In Sarna

Sunder: Assault Omnimech: http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Sunder

These mechs would even the field in terms of Omni vs Battle 'mechs between the two tech bases.

You forgot about the Blackjack and Firestarter omnis that went into product in 3056.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Coralld, on 28 June 2016 - 02:30 PM, said:

As some one who regularly brawls in a unorthodox Mad Dog and does well with it (2x UAC5s, 4x SRM4s) it's engine size is not that bad.

If you want to do decent, sure, its enough, if you want it to be good, it needs more speed (and can afford it).

[Trauglodyte]

Coralld, on 28 June 2016 - 02:30 PM, said:

As some one who regularly brawls in a unorthodox Mad Dog and does well with it (2x UAC5s, 4x SRM4s) it's engine size is not that bad. Endo would be nice but that would only really help with say a duel Gauss build or something like that.
Again, it's biggest problem is hit boxes.

I prefer 6x SRM4s and 1x UAC10.

Hit boxes are pretty brutal. Then again, having only +7 Structure to the STs doesn't help. Meanwhile, the Catapult, which is smaller with better hit boxes, has WAY more structure quirks. How does that happen?

[MischiefSC]

Problem is that IS/Clan balance was never done. CXL, 1/2 size endo/ff, smaller/lighter weapons and gear has no balance aside from just flat out denying it to most mechs. Those that do have it are at an advantage. Even the Highlander 2C, strip all quirks and the 2C is vastly better. Hunchie v Hunchie?

Quirks are not balance. They are a situational crutch. We need some better balance approach, at which point I say sure. Unlock omnis.

As much as I'm a lore fan we need to break from it to make our liquid metal mech system work and still have a balanced game.

[Moonlight Grimoire]

I would not want to allow IS omni's (nor clan omni's) to change their engines, other fixed equipment like TAG, bap, JJ's, C3 and all that stuff? Yes that should be changeable, allowing you to change the engine rating would make omni's not unique, same with allowing endo and ferro to be toggled, though, I am far more amenable to allowing endo and ferro as they do help with giving omni 'mechs a further degree of freedom, as well as fixed equipment, engines though I think should stay locked.

[Y E O N N E]

Trauglodyte, on 28 June 2016 - 04:40 PM, said:

Meanwhile, the Catapult, which is smaller with better hit boxes, has WAY more structure quirks. How does that happen?

Virtue of dying on single ST loss means you get to be a little hardier before you reach that point.

Not saying the CPLT's structure buffs aren't distributed wrongly, but strong STs in conjunction with dangerous weaponry adequately offsets the CXL advantage.

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 28 June 2016 - 06:53 PM.

[Lykaon]

Metus regem, on 28 June 2016 - 01:29 PM, said:

True, but if they unlock IS Omni's then they would need to do that for Clan ones too... rules need to be applied to both sides, not one or the other.

And with this in mind most of the Inner Sphere Omnimechs are garbage.

Fixed Endo or ferro for a clan mech means 7 slots of locked crit slots limiting configurations. An Inner Sphere mech would get 14 locked crit slots,so a great deal more limiting in what can be put in omni pods.

Fixed C.A.S.E. is a wasted half ton and a crit slot because that is one of the first things taken out of a mech and is absolutley worthless with an I.S. XL engine on a side torso yet, it is a "feature".

Fixed suicide engines. Inner Sphere XL are death traps on anything that isn't ideally shaped to mtigate risk or fast enough to use evasion over armor.

Fixed heatsinks. Like fixed single heatsinks= worthless mech.

A fixed active probe for the clans is 1 ton 1 crit while it's 1.5 tons and 2 crits for Inner Sphere. All the items that are generally treated as fixed save jumpjets are either heavier or larger or both meaning any piece of fixed gear will be more restrictive for I.S. omnimechs.


Overall I.S. Omnimech with a few scarce exceptions will be junk if implimented like clan omnimechs are now.

[Coralld]

Moonlight Grimoire, on 28 June 2016 - 04:55 PM, said:

I would not want to allow IS omni's (nor clan omni's) to change their engines, other fixed equipment like TAG, bap, JJ's, C3 and all that stuff? Yes that should be changeable, allowing you to change the engine rating would make omni's not unique, same with allowing endo and ferro to be toggled, though, I am far more amenable to allowing endo and ferro as they do help with giving omni 'mechs a further degree of freedom, as well as fixed equipment, engines though I think should stay locked.

This is basically my view, with a slight caviot. Instead of being able to unlock say all JJ and heat sinks you instead can only unlock 2 or 3 of each.
Just trying to some how keep the flavor while opening some doors. Summoner, Warrhawk, nova, and SCat would benefit from this while keeping the Omni mech feel.

[Moonlight Grimoire]

Lykaon, on 28 June 2016 - 08:13 PM, said:

And with this in mind most of the Inner Sphere Omnimechs are garbage.

Fixed Endo or ferro for a clan mech means 7 slots of locked crit slots limiting configurations. An Inner Sphere mech would get 14 locked crit slots,so a great deal more limiting in what can be put in omni pods.

Fixed C.A.S.E. is a wasted half ton and a crit slot because that is one of the first things taken out of a mech and is absolutley worthless with an I.S. XL engine on a side torso yet, it is a "feature".

Fixed suicide engines. Inner Sphere XL are death traps on anything that isn't ideally shaped to mtigate risk or fast enough to use evasion over armor.

Fixed heatsinks. Like fixed single heatsinks= worthless mech.

A fixed active probe for the clans is 1 ton 1 crit while it's 1.5 tons and 2 crits for Inner Sphere. All the items that are generally treated as fixed save jumpjets are either heavier or larger or both meaning any piece of fixed gear will be more restrictive for I.S. omnimechs.


Overall I.S. Omnimech with a few scarce exceptions will be junk if implimented like clan omnimechs are now.

I disagree with IS XL's being death traps, they are only death traps in mechs with large side torso surface area + bad torso twist rate and bad division of surface area for the hit boxes for the side torsos. For the most part though yeah, IS Omnimechs would blow if we don't fix current issues with fixed equipment on Omnimechs in general which drag the entire class of mechs down.

Kanajashi sums it up pretty well here:

Coralld, on 28 June 2016 - 08:25 PM, said:

This is basically my view, with a slight caviot. Instead of being able to unlock say all JJ and heat sinks you instead can only unlock 2 or 3 of each.
Just trying to some how keep the flavor while opening some doors. Summoner, Warrhawk, nova, and SCat would benefit from this while keeping the Omni mech feel.

I can get behind that greatly, helps preserve the fact that Omnimech customization is more about the pods than the internals but allowing for some customization that would help out under performing mechs and help future mechs that would have the same issues. However, we still need the ability to put DHS's on Omnimechs if IS omni's are going to be a thing.

Edited by Moonlight Grimoire, 28 June 2016 - 09:12 PM.

[Andi Nagasia]

why does Everyone always forget the little Raptor(3052),

[Coralld]

Moonlight Grimoire, on 28 June 2016 - 09:11 PM, said:

I disagree with IS XL's being death traps, they are only death traps in mechs with large side torso surface area + bad torso twist rate and bad division of surface area for the hit boxes for the side torsos. For the most part though yeah, IS Omnimechs would blow if we don't fix current issues with fixed equipment on Omnimechs in general which drag the entire class of mechs down.

Kanajashi sums it up pretty well here:



I can get behind that greatly, helps preserve the fact that Omnimech customization is more about the pods than the internals but allowing for some customization that would help out under performing mechs and help future mechs that would have the same issues. However, we still need the ability to put DHS's on Omnimechs if IS omni's are going to be a thing.

Heat Sink quirks?

[Roadkill]

Coralld, on 28 June 2016 - 01:14 PM, said:

As for the Avatar and Sunder, they are actually not that wide.
Plus they stand to be very small given how volumetric scaling works thanks to them both being very barrel like.

My personal ride (as painted by Hans Vohwinkle). Note the nameplate under the cockpit.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Yay SHS omnimechs! And IS XL Engined fat assault and heavy omnimechs!

Seriously though...

Firestarter Omni, Blackhawk Omni, and MAYBE the Raptor omni are really the only ones that have a hope in hell under mwo's omni rules.