71 replies to this topic

[Metus regem]

Narcissistic Martyr, on 29 June 2016 - 08:18 AM, said:

Yay SHS omnimechs! And IS XL Engined fat assault and heavy omnimechs!

Seriously though...

Firestarter Omni, Blackhawk Omni, and MAYBE the Raptor omni are really the only ones that have a hope in hell under mwo's omni rules.

The Blackjack Omni might be okay too...

3057
Blackjack Omnimech
BJ2-O
50T (26.5t of pod space )
Endo
200XL
10 DHS


Prime packs:

2 UAC/5
4 MG
4 Mlas

Alpha:

2 LRM20
2 Mlas
1 SLas

Bravo:

1 Gauss
1 ALRM10
c3 Slave
1 SLas

Charlie:

2 LB-10X
2 Mlas
1 Slas

Delta:

1 PPC
2 Llas
2 Mlas
2 MPL
1 Slas


http://www.sarna.net...jack_(OmniMech)

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Metus regem, on 29 June 2016 - 08:44 AM, said:

The Blackjack Omni might be okay too...

It's a 4/6 50 tonner with an XL, it would not do well in MWO.

[Metus regem]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 29 June 2016 - 09:20 AM, said:

It's a 4/6 50 tonner with an XL, it would not do well in MWO.

But the firepower and high mounts.... And no locked equipment aside from the engine....

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Metus regem, on 29 June 2016 - 09:35 AM, said:

But the firepower and high mounts.... And no locked equipment aside from the engine....

The firepower isn't enough to make up for the lack of speed (it only gains 3 tons over a 50 tonner with an XL 255 which is already on the slower side of things), and if you want a high-mounted mech why not just take the regular Blackjack.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 29 June 2016 - 09:38 AM.

[Metus regem]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 29 June 2016 - 09:37 AM, said:

The firepower isn't enough to make up for the lack of speed (it only gains 3 tons over a 50 tonner with an XL 255 which is already on the slower side of things), and if you want a high-mounted mech why not just take the regular Blackjack.

Well my objective was to try and find a few early IS omni's that are not total steaming piles of Dog droppings... So far my list looks like:

Raptor (25t)
Firestarter (40t)
Blackjack (50t)
Blackhawk KU (60t)

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Metus regem, on 29 June 2016 - 09:50 AM, said:

Raptor (25t)
Firestarter (45t)
Blackhawk KU (60t)
Hauptmann (95t)

Went ahead and fixed a couple of things for you.

[Metus regem]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 29 June 2016 - 10:04 AM, said:

Went ahead and fixed a couple of things for you.

The Hauptmann is not an early Omni though, I would consider it a second generation IS Omni (anything developed post 3058). And thank you for the fix on the Firestarter.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Metus regem, on 29 June 2016 - 10:18 AM, said:

The Hauptmann is not an early Omni though, I would consider it a second generation IS Omni (anything developed post 3058). And thank you for the fix on the Firestarter.

Yeah, I forgot we were talking only first generation.

Men Shen would be included in the good second-gen IS Omnis though, almost forgot about it.

[Metus regem]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 29 June 2016 - 10:27 AM, said:

Yeah, I forgot we were talking only first generation.

Men Shen would be included in the good second-gen IS Omnis though, almost forgot about it.

Yea, once they got to the Second Generation, things got a lot better for IS Omni's, but that first set had it rough....

Edit:

Yes I know she's a late generation IS Omni, but I still want it....

http://www.sarna.net...rion_(OmniMech)

Edited by Metus regem, 29 June 2016 - 10:29 AM.

[Coralld]

I still say the Sunder will not be that bad, it's more of a walking CT than anything else. If PGI makes the arms large enough then they would then be able to protect the ST's from the side.

[Roadkill]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 29 June 2016 - 09:20 AM, said:

It's a 4/6 50 tonner with an XL, it would not do well in MWO.

That comes pretty close to summarizing everything that's wrong with MWO.

Probably the biggest mistake that MechWarrior games make - not just MWO, all of them - is allowing infinitely flexible engine upgrades. Because the first thing anyone does is upgrade their engine so that their Mech can be faster.

Without engine upgrades, the BJO would be a fine medium.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Roadkill, on 29 June 2016 - 11:07 AM, said:

That comes pretty close to summarizing everything that's wrong with MWO.

Without engine upgrades, the BJO would be a fine medium.

Actually this is false, everyone would just gravitate to the more optimized designs, just like they did with the Omnimechs. Remember how many people were excited when the Cheetah was announced as it was the first true light and how it allowed the Clans to actually compete on the light front?

The reason those slower or less optimized designs work in TT is because of BV.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 29 June 2016 - 11:11 AM.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Metus regem, on 29 June 2016 - 10:18 AM, said:

The Hauptmann is not an early Omni though, I would consider it a second generation IS Omni (anything developed post 3058). And thank you for the fix on the Firestarter.

It's also the only IS omni that doesn't tend to explode in spectacular fashion on a regular basis.

[Roadkill]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 29 June 2016 - 11:10 AM, said:

The reason those slower or less optimized designs work in TT is because of BV.

Also true. Which begs the question, why not use BV (or some equivalent) in MWO instead of building drop decks by tonnage?

So much reinventing the wheel going on...

[Strum Wealh]

Garfuncle, on 28 June 2016 - 12:52 PM, said:

So the IICs and the Kodiak have given the Clans battlemechs with clan tech, making them some of the most versatile chassis in the game.

IS, at this point, should be coming out with their reverse-engineered Omnis:

Owens Light Omnimech: http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Owens

Strider Medium Omnimech: http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Strider

Avatar Heavy Omnimech:http://www.sarna.net...vatar_(OmniMech) Link broken, search Avatar (Omnimech) In Sarna

Sunder: Assault Omnimech: http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Sunder

These mechs would even the field in terms of Omni vs Battle 'mechs between the two tech bases.

• The Raptor makes its debut in 3052.
  
• The Black Hawk KU makes its debut in 3055.
  
• The Owens, Avatar, and Sunder make their debut in 3056.
  
• The OmniTech Firestarter chassis technically makes its debut in 3056, but its various configurations aren't available until 3057.
  
• The Strider and the OmniTech Blackjack make their debut in 3057.
  
• The Perseus (basically the OmniTech Orion) makes its debut in 3058.
  
• The Arctic Fox makes its debut in 3059.
  
• The Men Shen and the Hauptmann make their debut in 3060.
  
• The Templar makes its debut in 3062.

And then it's all Wobbie stuff and additional configs for the above until 3100 (with the debut of the Templar III).

IIRC, PGI currently has the game set as "circa 3053", so there really isn't a whole lot available (really, just the Raptor) at this point.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Roadkill, on 29 June 2016 - 11:18 AM, said:

Also true. Which begs the question, why not use BV (or some equivalent) in MWO instead of building drop decks by tonnage?

So much reinventing the wheel going on...

Typically because it is viewed as too hard considering how much disapproval both iterations of BV have garnered from TT players. Then you have the problem of just how big of a disparity between a poorly optimized lights and a perfectly optimized assault. It encourages there to be further degrees of separation between poor performers and meta mechs because rather than making bad mechs better, their BV is just lowered instead which even if viable is not near as much fun.

Ideally the next mechwarrior would drop the TT tonnage system and make up their own so that lights are on more equal footing without needing quirks and being insect sized compared to assaults and potentially able to mount ballistics.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 29 June 2016 - 11:24 AM.

[Roadkill]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 29 June 2016 - 11:22 AM, said:

Typically because it is viewed as too hard considering how much disapproval both iterations of BV have garnered from TT players. Then you have the problem of just how big of a disparity between a poorly optimized lights and a perfectly optimized assault.

Sure, I know how bad both BV systems were, but they're still both better than flat-rate tonnage. And more importantly, BV can be tweaked as a balance measure. Tonnage can't. Blackjacks dominating in faction warfare? Increase their BV. Nothing else has to change, yet balance is corrected.

BV could even be dynamic based on actual in-game results in real time.

But no, that's too hard.

*sigh*

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Roadkill, on 29 June 2016 - 11:31 AM, said:

Sure, I know how bad both BV systems were, but they're still both better than flat-rate tonnage. And more importantly, BV can be tweaked as a balance measure. Tonnage can't. Blackjacks dominating in faction warfare? Increase their BV. Nothing else has to change, yet balance is corrected.

There is problems with that too, but it does end up a bit better than tonnage.

[MischiefSC]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 29 June 2016 - 09:37 AM, said:

The firepower isn't enough to make up for the lack of speed (it only gains 3 tons over a 50 tonner with an XL 255 which is already on the slower side of things), and if you want a high-mounted mech why not just take the regular Blackjack.

Fundamental issue right there - why take the 5 ton heavier omni when the 45 ton original is better.

[The Great Bear]

this game has been in a bad spot overall after clans i would think this would just add to problems