61 replies to this topic

[Scout Derek]

You know, I was going to ask about those saying that PGI thought energy boats were fearsome was a bad thing;

Hasn't it been said so here for the past, hmm, 3-4 years possibly not just here but in feedback emails and more?

Curious about so.


Oh. and I'm going to dig around and collect every thread I remember and put it here because I do remember them.

If they involve needing a mech with "laser vomit" it counts as well.

http://mwomercs.com/...ers-everywhere/

http://mwomercs.com/...f-laser-vomits/

http://mwomercs.com/...-more-powerful/

http://mwomercs.com/...-quit-stalking/


http://mwomercs.com/...out-stalker-4n/

( ^^^ The above one here may be your reason for why laser vomit is something they don't like.)

Edited by Procurator Derek, 29 June 2016 - 04:54 AM.

[Bluefalcon13]

I'm not really sure what you are getting at. What correlation are you making from previous leaderboard challenges? I know I have been gone for a bit, but are you directly comparing scores with recent, different weight class mechs? I'm lost...

[STEF_]

Bluefalcon13, on 29 June 2016 - 04:42 AM, said:

I'm not really sure what you are getting at. What correlation are you making from previous leaderboard challenges? I know I have been gone for a bit, but are you directly comparing scores with recent, different weight class mechs? I'm lost...

yes, you are.
Keep clicking on "previous" button, and page will show leaderboard results form many many mechs, even in the same medium class.

[Bluefalcon13]

So are you comparing it to the Shadow Cat? Or the Rifleman? Why dont we roll back and compare it to the last light event and compare it to the Commando rankings too? I don't put much faith in he leaderboards for a post launch event as a balancing tool. It only includes those who have purchased them, not the community as a group....

Edited by Bluefalcon13, 29 June 2016 - 04:54 AM.

[STEF_]

Procurator Derek, on 29 June 2016 - 04:39 AM, said:

You know, I was going to ask about those saying that PGI thought energy boats were fearsome was a bad thing;

Hasn't it been said so here for the past, hmm, 3-4 years possibly not just here but in feedback emails and more?

Curious about so.


Oh. and I'm going to dig around and collect every thread and put it here because I do remember them.

http://mwomercs.com/...ers-everywhere/

http://mwomercs.com/...f-laser-vomits/

Prolly laserboats ppl like to complain about do not have all hardpoints in blown-up-in-a-blink arms.
(U know...it's pretty fun to find an enemy PXH, blowning off 1 arm with one shot...and seeing it running away hiding).

Also, those laserboats do not have MG quirks, I suppose.

[Bud Crue]

Procurator Derek, on 29 June 2016 - 04:39 AM, said:

You know, I was going to ask about those saying that PGI thought energy boats were fearsome was a bad thing;

Hasn't it been said so here for the past, hmm, 3-4 years possibly not just here but in feedback emails and more?

/

Derek, can you expound on this a bit? Not sure where you are going with this in re the balance topic.

[Ruslan Savelyev]

I do agree that the quirks are underwhelming, particularly structure, but aside from making it a bigger Wolfhound and giving it extra energy slots for no other reason than power creep = sales, what is there to do with it?

The issue with the 'Mech is that engine caps for other chassis are so liberally applied that the speed of the lore chassis is irrelevant. The shape of the PXH will keep it from the A list, and it has no niche as a fast strike 'Mech when you can convert basically any support 'Mech (BJ or VND) into a faster strike 'Mech.

Should it just become a given that nearly every IS chassis released should get a variant that will run the Black Knight loadout (LPL/ML spam) or be rejected as ineffective?

[STEF_]

Bluefalcon13, on 29 June 2016 - 04:51 AM, said:

So are you comparing it to the Shadow Cat? Or the Rifleman? Why dont we roll back and compare it to the last light event and compare it to the Commando rankings too? I don't put much faith in he leaderboards for a post launch event as a balancing tool. It only includes those who have purchased them, not the community as a group....

U don't have faith in real numbers, then.

[Scout Derek]

Stefka Kerensky, on 29 June 2016 - 04:54 AM, said:

Prolly laserboats ppl like to complain about do not have all hardpoints in blown-up-in-a-blink arms.
(U know...it's pretty fun to find an enemy PXH, blowning off 1 arm with one shot...and seeing it running away hiding).

Also, those laserboats do not have MG quirks, I suppose.

I updated the post. check out that link at the bottom of the post. may link back to why they don't like laser vomit. Something amid the 2015 hype with the t-bolts and stalker hate in CW. there's more and I still have to dig. Luckily the forums search works now.

[STEF_]

Ruslan Savelyev, on 29 June 2016 - 04:55 AM, said:

The shape of the PXH will keep it from the A list

And that's my point, indeed.
No reason whatsoever for those ridiculous quirks pgi made for PXH.

#HelloPaulpleeezwakeup

[STEF_]

Procurator Derek, on 29 June 2016 - 04:57 AM, said:

I updated the post. check out that link at the bottom of the post. may link back to why they don't like laser vomit. Something amid the 2015 hype with the t-bolts and stalker hate in CW. there's more and I still have to dig. Luckily the forums search works now.

sooooo... you are comparing PXH with those mechs.... just wow.

Maybe PGI too... I see a pattern here.

Does PXH have hardpoints in torsi?
Does PXH tank like Thunder ot Stalker?
Are thier hardpoints blown away in a blink like the PXH ones?
Was impossible to foresee that PXH HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH OP LASERBOAT? (why many did it? cristal ball?)

(Also...why do I have the impression to talk with kids when I try to do it with whiteknights?)

Edited by Stefka Kerensky, 29 June 2016 - 05:04 AM.

[Scout Derek]

Bud Crue, on 29 June 2016 - 04:54 AM, said:

Derek, can you expound on this a bit? Not sure where you are going with this in re the balance topic.

I think this was directed more towards you after you said this:

Bud Crue, on 29 June 2016 - 02:46 AM, said:

Kodiak quirks lead me to beleive that PGI mistakenly believed that anything with mostly energy hard points would be, in their mind, "a meta" build andnthus quirks were unwarranted. Energy builds were, again in their minds, the most fearsome things in the game and they fail to acknowledge the relative value of other weapons, hard point location, hit boxes, mech geometry, etc. A quick review of the Kodiak variants seems to follow that.

You said your theory was flushed after the Rescale...

but not really, it dates back to complaints in the current threads I pulled up.

People hated energy boats, and thus PGI took that feedback and APPLIED it to future mechs, in this case generic +10% energy range, cool down, and now the current state of quirks of the Phoenix Hawk.

Quoting would've been less confusing, sorry about that.

[ScarecrowES]

Id assume we all realize that 45-ton mechs are generally supposed to be the weakest and least capable weight class in the medium category. Lacking the speed and size of 40-tonners. Lacking the armor and guns of 50 and 55-tonners. It's a class full of glass cannons or fast, under-gunned mechs.

So PHX is going to be at a disadvantage for being at 45 tons anyway. Built for speed and agility with less than optimal hardpoints. Not sure why anyone thinks this should perform as well as mechs that are, even on paper, outright better... especially ones in higher weight classes.

Seriously, the only mech that was ever decent at 45 tons was only viable because it was undersized and overquirked.

[Bluefalcon13]

Stefka Kerensky, on 29 June 2016 - 04:56 AM, said:

U don't have faith in real numbers, then.

Sure, it gives them some data, but how many matches did you have 3-4 Phoenix hawk's on one side? As an under-performing mech, how does that effect the data they are getting?

And final question: would you prefer they released mechs that were only OP, and only for purchase with hard currency, then nerf them when they become available for chills? I personally would rather PGI released under quirked mechs, and slowly brings them up to par, rather than that. It helps to limit power creep that way, and helps to preserve TTK.

[STEF_]

Procurator Derek, on 29 June 2016 - 05:05 AM, said:

People hated energy boats, and thus PGI took that feedback and APPLIED it to future mechs, in this case generic +10% energy range, cool down, and now the current state of quirks of the Phoenix Hawk.

I think I should not repeat PXH has nothing to do with laserboats.
Look.
At.
Its.
Hitboxes.

also: "in this case generic +10% energy range, cool down, and now the current state of quirks of the Phoenix Hawk."
NOPE.
Arms.
Blown.
Away.
Easily.

Structure quirks on Arms!
Danke!

[Y E O N N E]

Let's see, where did I put it. Ah! Here we go!

[Scout Derek]

Stefka Kerensky, on 29 June 2016 - 05:03 AM, said:

sooooo... you are comparing PXH with those mechs.... just wow.

Maybe PGI too... I see a pattern here.

Does PXH have hardpoints in torsi?
Does PXH tank like Thunder ot Stalker?
Are thier hardpoints blown away in a blink like the PXH ones?
Was impossible to foresee that PXH HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH OP LASERBOAT? (why many did it? cristal ball?)

(Also...why do I have the impression to talk with kids when I try to do it with whiteknights?)

Not in the least, but I am comparing past actions to future actions of today.

As I said to Bad Cue above, they don't like energy boats, or anything with good energy quirks. the crops we plant shall be what we reap. in this case, we planted seeds that would ultimately lead up to this.

Why do people keep calling me a white knight? All I said was it may be linked, not that it was. Hell, I didn't even say it was those mechs, I said it was something amid them.

The reason why you act like you're talking to kids is because you want to believe they are.

[STEF_]

Bluefalcon13, on 29 June 2016 - 05:06 AM, said:

And final question: would you prefer they released mechs that were only OP, and only for purchase with hard currency, then nerf them when they become available for chills? I personally would rather PGI released under quirked mechs, and slowly brings them up to par, rather than that. It helps to limit power creep that way, and helps to preserve TTK.

I think I've repeated 1000 times that PXH with BJ quirks still would be WORSE than BJ.
And look... BJ is a c-bill mech.

[Bluefalcon13]

Stefka Kerensky, on 29 June 2016 - 05:10 AM, said:

I think I've repeated 1000 times that PXH with BJ quirks still would be WORSE than BJ.
And look... BJ is a c-bill mech.

I didn't ask about the BJ, I asked a general question, which you avoided and did not answer...

What is your profession in life? Politician? Lawyer? Lobbyist?

PS- the Phoenix Hawk is not a Blackjack. Maybe this skews your perception? Just saying... giving one mech the quirks of another doesn't prove anything. They are different....

Edited by Bluefalcon13, 29 June 2016 - 05:14 AM.

[Scout Derek]

Stefka Kerensky, on 29 June 2016 - 05:08 AM, said:

I think I should not repeat PXH has nothing to do with laserboats.
Look.
At.
Its.
Hitboxes.

also: "in this case generic +10% energy range, cool down, and now the current state of quirks of the Phoenix Hawk."
NOPE.
Arms.
Blown.
Away.
Easily.

Structure quirks on Arms!
Danke!

Meanwhile I keep regretting I should have quoted Bad Cue.

Wonder why the arms fly off so easily?

Why do they?

Is it, because people can't aim, or, maybe....

well, who knows, but all I can hear you say is they need some buffs to the arms.

But the why of it...? That's the real question at hand right now. your 2).