85 replies to this topic

[Black Fish]

Took a break from MWO just about when the Archer was released (work mostly not out of boredom) so I had really only a few games a week.
But not I've had more time and been playing several games the past few days and I've seen 0 Archers...
I remember the forums was in a state of panic of what will happen to the game with so many missiles hardpoints...
Are they really that bad?

[DelRico]

Well, I'm no expert in Archer history, but personally I tought that it was nothing more but a catapult A1 with arms... And since those a rare, the Archer would take the same path in no time.

[WarPickle]

i don't play mine... they are useless.... fall over dead with one harsh word from the enemy

[TercieI]

It's not very good. People probably mastered them and shelved them. And they got bigger in the rescale.

[process]

I see them, but I imagine it's difficult to get excited about IS missile boats.

[TercieI]

process, on 30 June 2016 - 06:26 AM, said:

I see them, but I imagine it's difficult to get excited about IS missile boats.

Shhh..Don't tell anyone but Tempest vomits lasers with ECM.

[Escef]

DelRico, on 30 June 2016 - 06:18 AM, said:

Well, I'm no expert in Archer history, but personally I tought that it was nothing more but a catapult A1 with arms... And since those a rare, the Archer would take the same path in no time.

Seriously? The 5S Archer is 5 missile hardpoints and 4 energy (1 per arm, 2 CT). The 5W is a whopping 9 missile hardpoints. The Tempest is an ECM capable mech with 3 missile and 6 energy hardpoints (note that the CT has 2 energy and 1 missile, impossible to use them all). The 2R is 6 energy and 3 missile (with the hardpoints better arranged than the Tempest's)... Archers out perform Catapults in the weapon department, and have more tonnage to work with.

As for why you don't see Archers more... The hitboxes are side torso dominant, making XL engines very risky, hampering speed and payload. The lack of jump jets exacerbates this. The weapon quirks are decent, but not great. Running it as LRM support usually wastes the defensive quirks, and the hitboxes make brawling questionable. As a side note, I don't think the Archer needs more quirks or anything, but advancing the timeline and releasing the Light Engine (same crits and survivability as a clan XL, but less weight savings) will probably put it in a good place.

Archers are my babies from table top, and are pure nostalgia mechs for me. The only reason I don't run them much is because I livestream as much as I do, and LRM boats aren't usually entertaining to watch in action. (Besides, Hilda is still the big, bad b**** of LRM boats.)

Edited by Escef, 30 June 2016 - 06:41 AM.

[El Bandito]

One of the biggest limiter for the Archer is its absurdly low cockpit. Can't even TAG an enemy with its super high energy point without exposing most of the torsi.

It is lore based so I will have to deal with it, but aside from its low cockpit, I have no issue with the ARC-5W and Tempest. My WLR and KDR with them are both around 2.0.

Edited by El Bandito, 30 June 2016 - 06:41 AM.

[Escef]

El Bandito, on 30 June 2016 - 06:41 AM, said:

One of the biggest limiter for the Archer is its absurdly low cockpit. Can't even TAG an enemy with its super high energy point without exposing most of the torsi.

Quite possibly a time when a 3PV drone might come in handy.

[invernomuto]

There were many archers when the mech was released (that's usual everytime PGI release a new mech). Now it's phoenix hawk time... The archer is not a very strong mech (probably the worst between the heavy unseen released so far) but it has its place, expecially the Tempest. I like it a lot. With the June patch it got larger while the catapult got a complete new model and new hero. This did not help Archer's popularity.
It's about to be released for c-bills so probabily we'll see more of them in the near future.

Edit: this video is the reason I bought the Archer... love that playstyle

https://youtu.be/6z_eCn4IrJE

Edited by invernomuto, 30 June 2016 - 06:57 AM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Escef, on 30 June 2016 - 06:43 AM, said:

Quite possibly a time when a 3PV drone might come in handy.

Nope, you can only target/aim at Mechs that your pilot can see from the cockpit, regardless if the drone can see it. The targeting reticule is slaved to the pilot's LOS.

[The Basilisk]

They are huge....

They got mostly anemic quirks to compensate.

Their cockpit is too low for comfort --> you get your upper torso shoot of cause you think you are in cover but aren't.

They got stupid/ anemic combinations of quirks.

Those that would be able to do SRM boating have LRM Quirks, energy quirks are completely out of question.

The weapon doors, stylewise an absolutely cool feature either give your position away or seem sometimes to be counted as sidetorsoes....couldn't get consistent data on this sometimes it seems so sometimes not or criticaly delay your timing.

Low direct fire hardpoints + high missile hardpoints. (save the two CT energy hardpoints of the R and S Versions)

could go on but... There is just nothing that would justify bringing an Archer when you could bring an other mech. Due to its post scaling size even the Catapult is smaler and better suited to any LRM or SRM role.

Edited by The Basilisk, 30 June 2016 - 06:51 AM.

[Escef]

Prosperity Park, on 30 June 2016 - 06:48 AM, said:

Nope, you can only target/aim at Mechs that your pilot can see from the cockpit, regardless if the drone can see it. The targeting reticule is slaved to the pilot's LOS.

Shows how much I use it, right?

The Basilisk, on 30 June 2016 - 06:48 AM, said:

They got mostly anemic quirks to compensate.

They actually have some nice structural quirks. +22 CT/+15 STs on most (the Tempest's are 18/12), and most have arm and leg structure quirks as well. Standard engine Archers can tank a LOT of damage, easily comparable to other 70 ton mechs. And while they are prone to losing side torsos, it is far preferable to lose a side than the center; besides, you can still carry enough firepower to make a difference with half the mech.

[The Basilisk]

El Bandito, on 30 June 2016 - 06:41 AM, said:

One of the biggest limiter for the Archer is its absurdly low cockpit. Can't even TAG an enemy with its super high energy point without exposing most of the torsi.

It is lore based so I will have to deal with it, but aside from its low cockpit, I have no issue with the ARC-5W and Tempest. My WLR and KDR with them are both around 2.0.

BTW this is an other instance of suspiciously close to mech release retcon of a longtime unchanged mech fact.
In old CBT the cockpit of the Archer was in its torso, like it was in the Cyclops.
Gamewise this did not change anything because a critical hit to its head would still take the mech out of the game due to electronics and sensor failure.
But the mech would still be moveable and the the Pilot would survive.

[SpiralFace]

The biggest sin of the archer is that its an LRM boat in a game that hates LRM's.

Its quirked well for what you get, but the major issue is that its a mech designed around LRM's (as it should be as one of the traditional LRM mechs.) but as a result, the quirks are not geared towards srm brawling, so as a result, they sit on the side and collect dust.

If the game where to actually fix LRM's and make them an attractive weapon choice, I imagine you would see more of them, but as it stands now, as long as LRM's remain one of the least viable weapons past T5, you aren't going to see them used much, as there are better SRM brawler mechs.

[The Basilisk]

Escef, on 30 June 2016 - 07:02 AM, said:

They actually have some nice structural quirks. +22 CT/+15 STs on most (the Tempest's are 18/12), and most have arm and leg structure quirks as well. Standard engine Archers can tank a LOT of damage, easily comparable to other 70 ton mechs. And while they are prone to losing side torsos, it is far preferable to lose a side than the center; besides, you can still carry enough firepower to make a difference with half the mech.

Yea ...you are absolutely right.... tanking quirks do totaly compensate for the lack of offensive capabilitys on a second line fire support mech .... that has to use knife fighting range SRMs to at least pretend to be viable...or use its structure quirks and then let its offensive quirks aside. Please dont tell me something about 5% anything
quirks. If you stand still and perform as fast as you can go shots on a standing target you may experience higher dps but in a moving fight anything below 10% cooldown or heat quirks just won't do anything to give the mech any kind of noticable characteristic or buff in that direction.

Edited by The Basilisk, 30 June 2016 - 07:14 AM.

[Escef]

The Basilisk, on 30 June 2016 - 07:03 AM, said:

BTW this is an other instance of suspiciously close to mech release retcon of a longtime unchanged mech fact.
In old CBT the cockpit of the Archer was in its torso, like it was in the Cyclops.
Gamewise this did not change anything because a critical hit to its head would still take the mech out of the game due to electronics and sensor failure.
But the mech would still be moveable and the the Pilot would survive.

Um, no. The original flavor text was that the cockpit was below the level of the torso armor, not that it was IN the torso.

The Basilisk, on 30 June 2016 - 07:05 AM, said:

Yea ...you are absolutely right.... tanking quirks do totaly compensate for the lack of offensive capabilitys on a second line fire support mech ....

I said no such thing, and you know it. I do not appreciate being misrepresented.

[SHIN BRODAMA]

The Basilisk, on 30 June 2016 - 07:05 AM, said:

Yea ...you are absolutely right.... tanking quirks do totaly compensate for the lack of offensive capabilitys on a second line fire support mech ....

That's one way to play it for sure. I got my Archers about a month ago and found it pretty easy (and fun) to master the 5W and Tempest. The 5W is a ton of fun to play as a brawler on the right map as 8x SRM-4s will ruin any enemy's day. Tempest plays a slightly different role but I had some great rounds in a 2 LPL 3x SRM-4 variant.

I tried running LRMs on one of the other versions and really didn't enjoy the experience though. Maybe try building an offensive brawler and see where that takes you?

[The Basilisk]

Sho sa ShinYodama, on 30 June 2016 - 07:13 AM, said:

That's one way to play it for sure. I got my Archers about a month ago and found it pretty easy (and fun) to master the 5W and Tempest. The 5W is a ton of fun to play as a brawler on the right map as 8x SRM-4s will ruin any enemy's day. Tempest plays a slightly different role but I had some great rounds in a 2 LPL 3x SRM-4 variant.

I tried running LRMs on one of the other versions and really didn't enjoy the experience though. Maybe try building an offensive brawler and see where that takes you?

Yea thats how I leveled them but the fact stays there is no reason to prefer the archer (sure cool looks) over any other mech able to pack the same loadout.
I don't think its an outright bad mech....its just there are better mechs in any role you may press him.
And thats the reason why you do not see him anymore ppl leveld him...and thats it.

Edited by The Basilisk, 30 June 2016 - 07:46 AM.

[Lightfoot]

LRMs in MWO are worthless as a main weapon and too weak as a back-up and the Archer is made of glass. Loses weapons fast.