433 replies to this topic

[invernomuto]

Lucky Rookie, on 03 July 2016 - 09:11 AM, said:

Here are my observations as a merc with a Davion contract in a two men unit so far:
- As of yet, played 45 qualifying (IS vs Clan) scouting matches total and won 15 of them.
- Played 12 scouting matches just today and got only 2 wins. I still need 5 more wins to complete the challenge but I'm not gonna keep playing for today. Today's frustrations made me sick of the game.
- Played 3 invasions, won once, lost twice.
- All those matches lost, both scouting and invasion alike, were due to crappy coordination (or total lack thereof) of pugs.
- Stormcrows etc. can easily be defeated if played as a group. In my experience clan mechs seem pretty balanced.
- Pugs vs teams are usually auto-fail.
- Clans have more teams (because they have less players?) and play better as teams.
- The game rewards coordination more than anything. Which is how it is supposed to be. However this means Faction Play is mostly an exercise in futility and frustration for solo players and small units. Granted, this is a hard problem to solve but must be solved. In its current incarnation, command wheel is almost useless. In the heat of the battle you can't really mark targets to pile on etc. It needs to be improved drastically but I'm not sure whether a greatly improved future command wheel using pugs can equal a voice chatting team.

my observations are similar to yours, I just add a few toughts:
- I do not find the clanners to be more coordinated respect to IS side. It usually depends on unit playing at the moment. For example, I spent this Sunday afternoon playing some scouting missions with FRR. I was pleased with my results and we were on the verge of gaining the infamous Long Tom but then I began facing 3-4 men [-MS-] teams (the planet that FRR was attacking was theirs). Game over on that planet for me. [-MS-] guys are really very, very strong players. Chapeau to them!
- I almost rage quitted once for frustration and I sweared a lot against the monitor , BUT I do plan to continue enjoying the game in the near future. Losses are part of the game.
- Stormcrows, like you say, can be defeated, I had no problem with the right group to kill them. Obviously they're difficult to beat if you face 4 of them against one Locust, one Cicada, one Raven and one Griffin. Bring up the tonnage if you want to fight and not only collect the intel and run away...
- PGI tried to separate the queues between solo players and unit players. It did not work, the solo players queue was almost empty. People formed one man unit to be on the unit players queue. It's not an easy task to make FP enjoyable to both coordinated groups AND to solo players, uncoordinated by definition.

[MovinTarget]

Oh, and PGI, we really need a voting mechanism to kick/replace AFKs, discos and non-connects. Only in the first 5-7 minutes though, i could see this getting abused...

[Macbrea]

Strange, I seem to have the same thing as you guys are seeing but on the opposite side.

If you look at my suggestion. I suggest the cure for scouting is drop weight down to 45 tons. At this weight, IS is probably going to have the advantage.

And any pug group vs an organized group will lose, 99% of the time. I have played quite a few games this weekend vs organized groups. It's almost better to simply charge down range, attempt to get 80 match score and move on to next game. Then to waste the next 20 minutes losing.

Edited by Macbrea, 03 July 2016 - 11:45 AM.

[Tiantara]

Macbrea, on 03 July 2016 - 11:41 AM, said:

I suggest the cure for scouting is drop weight down to 45 tons. At this weight, IS is probably going to have the advantage.

- 50 tons more than enough. 45 too low, IS can't bring Hunchback in field and loose again. Best choice - 50tons. Not 55 as now.

[MovinTarget]

45 tons would make it more like "scouting" but clams would only have what, 5 chassis to choose from where IS would have like 50 distinct variants? True there are some crappy variants, but still...

[Macbrea]

Not really sure you would want to swap the Stormcrow for the Hunchback IIC. Dropping it down to 45 tons, IS has 4 mediums vs Clans 3 mediums (once the viper is out).

.
The real fear at that point becomes being unable to catch up to the IS lights.

Edited by Macbrea, 03 July 2016 - 12:32 PM.

[Dawnstealer]

Kael Posavatz, on 30 June 2016 - 12:51 PM, said:

Nice to know that some loyalists have not yet maxed out their reward tiers, of course, the Mercs got shiny new ones with Phase III

I'm just shy of level 15, and I've been playing forever. Just not a huge fan of FW yet.

[invernomuto]

MovinTarget, on 03 July 2016 - 12:29 PM, said:

45 tons would make it more like "scouting" but clams would only have what, 5 chassis to choose from where IS would have like 50 distinct variants? True there are some crappy variants, but still...

If we have to reduce the tonnage, then I'd restrict scouting mission to light only (35 tons). Make another game mode for mediums...

[Lucky Rookie]

Macbrea, on 03 July 2016 - 11:41 AM, said:

Strange, I seem to have the same thing as you guys are seeing but on the opposite side.

Sure. Our wins were mostly against your faction simply because they mostly consisted of pugs and their teamplay were worse than ours.

Macbrea, on 03 July 2016 - 11:41 AM, said:

If you look at my suggestion. I suggest the cure for scouting is drop weight down to 45 tons. At this weight, IS is probably going to have the advantage.

I think such a change will create other problems.

Macbrea, on 03 July 2016 - 11:41 AM, said:

And any pug group vs an organized group will lose, 99% of the time. I have played quite a few games this weekend vs organized groups. It's almost better to simply charge down range, attempt to get 80 match score and move on to next game. Then to waste the next 20 minutes losing.

Yes and therein lies the problem. Team play is very important and it is one of the redeeming qualities of this game but there is a huge gap. If pugs can't reasonably succeed this will be a team game only. Many people will not be around to play.

Now I don't suggest diminishing the hard work of units. The game surely needs new and interesting modes of play like many in this thread have suggested.

[Sky Hawk]

invernomuto, on 03 July 2016 - 11:35 AM, said:

- PGI tried to separate the queues between solo players and unit players. It did not work, the solo players queue was almost empty. People formed one man unit to be on the unit players queue. It's not an easy task to make FP enjoyable to both coordinated groups AND to solo players, uncoordinated by definition.

Actually, there is a very easy way to separate FP into two enjoyable parts, one queue for Teams only and one for PUGs.. It works well for Quick Play.. PGI just some reason made the big mistake, and tried the cut between unit/non-unit players..

(I still hope they will try it again some day, and separate FP between Teams/PUGs... because, real PUGs vs. PUGs are mostly great matches..)

[MovinTarget]

This is why having them split it into different scenarios wouldn't be such a terrible idea. If you want to play solo (1v1 or pve) you could do that, if you want it to be JUST your 8 players, face 8 other players...

Trying to cram everyone into the same game mode may be the problem...

[Tiantara]

- Okay... now i see Long Tom in action and i can say only one thing... with power to kill full armored assault mech (Mauler, Atlas, Crab, Dire Wolf) and destroy fully 2 legs, side torso, both hands, center torso as well in one shot... it must be used only once in 5-6min. Not like it used now. It strikes so often that someone prefer to suicide with overheat on Landing Zone when see what happens with others. More of it... it's not a support or fire backup, it steals kills, XP, c-bill and also kill foes as well. Loose base because of being hit by "friendly Long Tom" was not a good surprise really. Need somehow lower frequency of Long Tom shots to once at 6 min... 5 strikes in math time more than enough.

[GalahadVGL13]

Could we rename Longtom to Orbital Strike? 'Cause the effects are far more like capital ship fire than paltry tube arty.

I finished the scouting in two days. Yesterday I took a 3xac2 shadowhawk running 95 kph with 3 2n's I got 2 kills, both kmdd, and we won that round cold against 4 crows.
Focus mech, focus legs, win. Only take weapons which can be directed at fairly specific locations. Don't just circle (I do this too much myself), USE THE TERRAIN!
If you aren't in a unit or are in a small unit, please find your house teamspeak server and hop on.

As far as invasion goes, 12 man or 2 man, if no one is calling the drop the odds are against you.
when facing Orbital Strikes, use them against the enemy by spreading out and only clumping amongst a larger clump of enemy. I know a few units doing this and it leaves the poor sods who get friendly fire killed in this way salty as ####.

I AM liking the comparative ease of getting FP drops vs say last week where there was a few times I saw a total of less than 20 players in the ques period... I haven't seen but maybe one ghost drop during the event, so even if some matches suck gorrilla nuts, I'd rather play than not.

[Danjo San]

MovinTarget, on 03 July 2016 - 10:20 AM, said:

Danjo,

Thats what i have been saying, if pug v pug, streak crows will roll, but once you get coordinated IS teams, they are not an auto win. They are not an auto loss either...

Clans have an advantage at lower skill "tiers" but once people know what they are doing, focus fire... they are gimped by their lack of aim and slow cd.

in theory yes... even if you have coordinated IS Teams and you go up against mixed uncoordinated Streaknoobs, the Streakers can win. ... The "chance" of winning is in favor of the clans atm.
If you play IS vs. IS you can drop solo, have several different valid choices and don't need to pilot "counter streak"
"chances" are balanced. you can do well even with complete random players. Try that against clans, it usually ends in a mess.
So it makes sense that the overall success of clans over IS in scouting somewhat builds upon the streakcrow. Not necessarily because the crow itself is "OP" or "unbeatable". But simply due to the fact that Clan can successfuly drop without having to form a 4man group that works together and adapts their mechs and tactics to counter the Crow.
Even in a 3Man+1Pug combination the Solo Player may bring something useless, run off, do something else stupid etc. etc.
There is little room for error on IS side, whereas Clan can forgive errors in dropdeck, tactic etc. more easily.

[unwary]

D V Devnull, on 30 June 2016 - 04:32 PM, said:

... This event is going to be another damned 'pressure cooker' to get through. No way 6 days is going to cut it for me, and I'm still working on Scouting after only having 3.5 hours of battle time. ...

~Mr. D. V. "PGI's making this feel like anything but fun right now... Pray they fix it soon..." Devnull

Just finished the event on both my main and alt account. Only annoying part was collecting the data points in scout mode. There's more than enough time if you put in some effort.

[Dee Eight]

UMMMM, just avoid picking worlds where there's going to be a long tom. I haven't seen one all day and I've managed 8 games thus far with six being wins this afternoon/evening.

[Artannis Veritieri]

Different factions have different accessibility. This event is easier for some than others. I can tell you I have burned 2 full days off for no drops one day and 2 drops the other. Each day long tom was everywhere. Jade had it, Ghost had it, Wolf had it and the next day nobody was dropping on clan side if they didn't have long tom. The only ones who consistently drop without it is Jade and if you show up late to the party they have it by the end. Jade is hands down the best of the clan factions so long as those top tier mercs make it their home. Long tom is a little overkill with them so good luck winning against the only place to get a match with mister boomy every 2 mins. I really do not know how I will finish this event by the 6th. I have only made it this far through a masochistic practice of sleep deprivation. I have spent well over 50 hrs on this event so far. I am half done with Invasion. Half. No attack lanes, only defense lanes, and it is hard to get anyone to show up on 100% blue planets where you can't even get a pug buzzer and you count up in eternal purgatory. I don't blame the other clans for bugging out so often. There are more people trying to defend the worlds they attack than they can muster which means no head way as you can expect 1 or 2 ghost drops for every live match. Marik has no attack lanes and our choices are limited and it is very...very time consuming.

Here is a thought though on long tom; instead of super kablammy wamo and killing the fun on both sides, Artillery MVP, why not do a cluster of regular artillery strikes. It may be damaging, hard to avoid, useful and not harmful to the competitive dynamic of the game. Damaged mechs can be a sufficient boon to give the other team an advantage.

[D V Devnull]

unwary, on 03 July 2016 - 03:57 PM, said:

D V Devnull, on 30 June 2016 - 04:32 PM, said:

... This event is going to be another damned 'pressure cooker' to get through. No way 6 days is going to cut it for me, and I'm still working on Scouting after only having 3.5 hours of battle time. ...

~Mr. D. V. "PGI's making this feel like anything but fun right now... Pray they fix it soon..." Devnull

Just finished the event on both my main and alt account. Only annoying part was collecting the data points in scout mode. There's more than enough time if you put in some effort.

Gee, says a livestreamer who can sit in front of their computer 100% of the time. Here with real life, the fact that drops are coming very slow for me, and the awful fact of players who can't get their [bleep] together that the system stupidly puts me with, I'm repetitively getting blown to the sidelines. Add on top of this that PGI has actively bounced my login, while I was launching into a match, crashing the client on my end, and I'm ending up with pre-ruined matches that the matchmaker then adds insult to injury of time wasted by PGI's failures. After a grand total of about 8 to 9 hours of battle time, I've also had to deal with the active blockage from being able to play caused by real life over the USA July 4th weekend. I've been forced to realize due to PGI's bad timing, and failed allowance for needed time, that I simply never had the ability to get the Grand Prizes, WarHorns, and a few other things now. Then hearing that you think I haven't put in enough effort, when I've already been fighting 'tooth and nail' for anything and everything, just makes me want to punch you in the face.

Hell, now I can see that this game has finally degraded too far to be able to save it. To all you elitist jokes, I can finally tell you with a clear conscience... GO TO HELL!!!

<*walks out, slamming the door behind them, causing it to break off its' hinges and fall flat on the floor with the doorknob popping out to the side*>

~Mr. D. V. "Good night, and good riddance... I've finally lost the will to give a care about MWO. May it die in pieces." Devnull

[panzerkunst99]

After all is said and done the bottom line are - is it fun? If answer is no, I dont spend money on it... That is what should worry PGI.

[Helene de Montfort]

The event isn't the problem, the event in itself is ok...

The problem is the faction play.