175 replies to this topic

[Moldur]

Get a standard engine brawler. Also, you can take less ammo than normal in scouting since it is only 4v4.

The Shadow Hawk 2H is one of the most formidible brawlers I've fought in scouting. They get a 25% ballistic quirk. + 10% module, you've got a 35% rof quirk on an AC-20.

Stop bringing griffins unless you want to die to everyone who knows what they are doing. Stop bring XL brawlers. You might as well walk into the enemy backward.

Also, Stormcrows do not normally run asymmetrical builds unless they have the big laser arm. If missiles or streaks are a big part of their loadout, you will neuter them by blowing off the left side torso. That leaves them with only 12 SRMs or streaks, tops, plus losing an ST absolutely ruins heat dissipation to the point of uselessness in a brawl. They are dead in the water if you can just blow the left ST. Don't overestimate the Clan XL.

[badaa]

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...d52c2999bf68f49

i hav yet come up against a crow build i couldnt rip a part with this.

in my best game killed 3 crows and yes with the help of my team but i got 3 M.D.D

even with the xl in its incredibly tanky by the end of the match i lost half my mech

but was still alive. i think i hav a screen shot some where.

[SlightlyMobileTurret]

Jon Gotham, on 09 July 2016 - 06:45 AM, said:

4 Skillgriffs are equally as bad, if not worse due to better survivability. that "more alpha" is usually one extra launcher, with a worse dispersion/spread. Couple that with no structure quirks.....
I just don't get where the clan superiority mantra is coming from.....

There are no skill griffins. Griffins can mount a maximum of SSRM8. The crow mounts SSRM30.

Griffins can ONLY do SRMs.

As said a milion times on this same thread, the problem is not IS v Clan scouting balance, but IS PUG vs clan PUG scouting balance.

Which is entirely out of whack.

Moldur, on 09 July 2016 - 01:01 PM, said:

Get a standard engine brawler. Also, you can take less ammo than normal in scouting since it is only 4v4.

Moldur, with a rightly built Griffin, you're going 110 kph, sometimes that speed is worth way more than bringing an 87 kph STD.

Edited by Keshav Murali, 09 July 2016 - 05:31 PM.

[Jon Gotham]

I dunno Keshav, from what I've seen the average play on both sides is pretty abysmal. But when one side has tighter spread, lower contact time per shot, higher base survivability and a slew of quirks to empower them......You can both be bads, but when one bad has all those advantages.....

[SlightlyMobileTurret]

Well, sir, the real problem is, how many IS pugs have meta mediums? How many of them build it right? How many of them bother to bring quirked variants?

The Clans have (or had) a "must buy" medium -- the stormcrow, 99% of clan players have them. Even the "bad" build of 5xSSRM6 goes upto 360m and does 60 damage, which is no little number.

Put 4 of those pugs against avg. IS pugs, and you see the outpouring of salt and tears.

Organized 4 SRM stormcrows or pulse crows/novas are even worse...you absolutely need to bring the meta IS mediums and leg focus to have a chance...because if you don't do it, they'll do it to you.

[Surn]

Is players... If you want to learn to beat streak crows come to housekurita.tserverhq.com. SrMx will take you on safari.

[Malcolm Vordermark]

Keshav Murali, on 10 July 2016 - 07:52 AM, said:

Well, sir, the real problem is, how many IS pugs have meta mediums? How many of them build it right? How many of them bother to bring quirked variants?

The Clans have (or had) a "must buy" medium -- the stormcrow, 99% of clan players have them. Even the "bad" build of 5xSSRM6 goes upto 360m and does 60 damage, which is no little number.

Its not like finding a needle in a haystack. Griffins, Shadow Hawks, Hunchbacks, and Black Jacks are probably your best bet, but even beyond that the IS has mediums that can beat streak crows.

Streak crows may do 60 damage, but it is spread all over the place and is on a 6 second cooldown.

[SlightlyMobileTurret]

I think you're misunderstanding me..

No doubt that IS can counter clan in scouting.

But the problem is, IS pugs bring crap builds all the time even in the better mediums. If I got a nickel for everytime I've seen a 4LRM5 Griffin, I'll have the rights to MWO.

But in clan, everyone has stormcrows, and everyone ATLEAST brings streaks.

In a pug v pug, 4 streakcrows will generally beat an enemy team that came with their snowflake builds. 240 damage on the same mech, that if even slightly angled towards the crows, will lose a side torso or a leg.

IS v Clan balance is not broken, IS pug vs clan pug balance is.

[badaa]

Keshav Murali, on 10 July 2016 - 04:58 PM, said:

I think you're misunderstanding me..

No doubt that IS can counter clan in scouting.

But the problem is, IS pugs bring crap builds all the time even in the better mediums. If I got a nickel for everytime I've seen a 4LRM5 Griffin, I'll have the rights to MWO.

But in clan, everyone has stormcrows, and everyone ATLEAST brings streaks.

In a pug v pug, 4 streakcrows will generally beat an enemy team that came with their snowflake builds. 240 damage on the same mech, that if even slightly angled towards the crows, will lose a side torso or a leg.

IS v Clan balance is not broken, IS pug vs clan pug balance is.

u cant fix stupid.

[xMEPHISTOx]

Quote

How Do You Counter Streak Crows?

Range.
Their range is horrible, take advantage of that.

[Malcolm Vordermark]

Keshav Murali, on 10 July 2016 - 04:58 PM, said:

I think you're misunderstanding me..

No doubt that IS can counter clan in scouting.

But the problem is, IS pugs bring crap builds all the time even in the better mediums. If I got a nickel for everytime I've seen a 4LRM5 Griffin, I'll have the rights to MWO.

But in clan, everyone has stormcrows, and everyone ATLEAST brings streaks.

In a pug v pug, 4 streakcrows will generally beat an enemy team that came with their snowflake builds. 240 damage on the same mech, that if even slightly angled towards the crows, will lose a side torso or a leg.

IS v Clan balance is not broken, IS pug vs clan pug balance is.

Can't balance around people bringing bad builds. Nor can we pretend that streak crows are the worst build that clans take. I've seem some truly awful builds on stormcrows.

I'm not the "git gud" type, but the problem you are describing is one of players that need to take time to improve their game play.

[MischiefSC]

xMEPHISTOx, on 10 July 2016 - 06:01 PM, said:

Range.
Their range is horrible, take advantage of that.

Their range is superior to any non-long-range IS weapons. It's over 400m with 100% hit accuracy. No IS brawling weapon is going to be able to out-fight it and any mid-range weapon on 55t or less is unlikely to beat it sufficiently before their team is in brawling range.

Range IS the problem - you're going to take 1 free shot from them before you're in SRM range. a 60 pt sandblast. If your aim isn't great but is mediocre or less you're going to lose that fight and range is a big part of why.

[Voidcrafter]

Dear random players joining scouting,
I will give you my deffinition of scouting perfection(well... for the most part and most cases) for dropping in that mode:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b0ccef3b67369df
0 free slots, max. std Engine, support weapons that can fire almost non-stop and do decent damage, INSANE structure quirks, that are making any enemy to sweat. Hard.

You love autocannons and nice alphas?
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...e3992767d78a3a6
I am actually really doing way better in that cent than in my other scouting mechs.
Even though it's with an XL.
That AC20 CD though... just... try it.

For all the adventurous dudes left out there -->
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...0569a61b4970996
In my opinion the hardest one to pilot from the three given. At least for me it is(maybe because of the difference between the SRMs CD and the LBX10 CD - which is INSANE with the module).

Now dear random people, put up a team built from variation of those 3 mechs(4x4SP is the best imo).
Drop.
See how any sort of crows(especially the streak ones) gets with way heavier pants than intended.
Profit.
"BUT THIS IS SCOUTING AND IMMA BRINGIN MA LIGHT MECH!!!"
Nope - you shouldn't
About 20% of the games are resolved from something else than a brawl - you'll be the weakest link(and most likely the reason your team will loose) in the rest of the 80% of the games.
That's how you win scouting as IS.
Also - laser crows/novas and Hunchbacks IIc are way more unbearable than everything else and this still works really, really well against them.
Also - the Griffins have some nice builds(3M especially) - but if you're new you should try those 3 first before getting to the advanced stuff - my opinion.

[justcallme A S H]

5 games from 5 - scouting as IS. Zero losses to Streakcrows, and well, anything really. easy wins.

Team mates were essentially running troll builds, dual PPC raven, ERL Cicada.
I was using a 4SP with SPL/SRM/Flamer, GG legs and poorly heat managing players. My 4SP was down to 25% 3 out of 5 games, because streak spread dmg.

Edited by R31Nismoid, 11 July 2016 - 01:03 AM.

[justcallme A S H]

Voidcrafter, on 10 July 2016 - 11:25 PM, said:

Dear random players joining scouting,
I will give you my deffinition of scouting perfection(well... for the most part and most cases) for dropping in that mode:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b0ccef3b67369df
0 free slots, max. std Engine, support weapons that can fire almost non-stop and do decent damage, INSANE structure quirks, that are making any enemy to sweat. Hard.

Try this one instead. Has less SRM spread, easier to strike effectively/leg mechs - and StreakCrows are hot - so the flamer, makes a mess of them easily. It is a deceptively cool build.

SPL/SRM6/FLM

People might think 2T or SRM ammo is nuts, but only firing 12 at a time, it takes quite a while to chew through the ammo, I never found myself running out.

[Voidcrafter]

R31Nismoid, on 11 July 2016 - 01:31 AM, said:

Try this one instead. Has less SRM spread, easier to strike effectively/leg mechs - and StreakCrows are hot - so the flamer, makes a mess of them easily. It is a deceptively cool build.

SPL/SRM6/FLM

People might think 2T or SRM ammo is nuts, but only firing 12 at a time, it takes quite a while to chew through the ammo, I never found myself running out.

Yea - any variation near the one I/you posted will work tbh.
Artemis is not a must - the quirk, even though seem insignificent, actually reduces the spread a lot - at least for me, at least in the ranges I am fighting at the Artemis doesn't really matter that much
Also - I prefer putting the ammo in the head/legs/CT instead, because everyone will aim(or hit you) in your side torsos and you pretty much can protect them the hardest so...
But aside of that the flamer aint a bad idea.

Also - 2 tons of SRM ammo for scouting is not nuts - if you need more than 2t for SRMs that means your team is really bad and you're actually carrying them...
That's why I have 2.5 tons
Also the insane survivability of the 4SP really allows you to fire more than 2 tons of ammo a lot of the times.

I deeply believe that any player new to scouting should drop with Hunchback 4SP first, do ~30<-->50 matches and then decide to go for something else...
Just saying.

[Kuritaclan]

Malystryx VoF, on 01 July 2016 - 11:43 AM, said:

streak crows are pretty OP in scouting. if you have 4 streak crows, all it takes to win is focus fire and all alpha at the same time. 1 alpha from 4 crows = 1 dead mech each time (thats c-ssrm 120 to 1 mech each volley, how many mediums and lights will survive streak 120??? none). Whole battle can be over very quick, and i see this being done very often now (yes even by experienced players).

don't believe me how OP they are? here is a video of me in just 1 streak crow with unorganized random pugs.

4 Kills prove nothing, if you don't be the focus you can literally get everything killed. It boils just to focus fire, aiming skills and individual performance, like using terrain and so on, down. Stormcrows are Skillcrows - sure. Anyway. They don't survive against an organized IS Team.

The real problem is, that there are many people who come to FP/CW and/or Scouting with no knowledge about the mode nor how to drive/equip a mech usefull to the team. Mostly recognizable when your IS team is joined by a Raven 3L which has in 9 out of 10 cases 2ERLL Lasers equiped or the mighty Mist Lynx, who doesn't have gotten the notification, his mech is not fast enough for the rally.

#PUG Lifes Doesn't Matter.

Edited by Kuritaclan, 11 July 2016 - 04:05 AM.

[Voidcrafter]

Kuritaclan, on 11 July 2016 - 04:04 AM, said:

... STUFF ...

#PUG Lifes Doesn't Matter.

Saying that is pretty much saying "Long Tom for the opposite side doesn't matter" with which I strongly disagree.
There will always be PUGs - I am dropping alone quite often - sometimes I do carry hard, sometimes not that much.
There are no guidelines for how scouting should be played really - no tutorial, no blinking huge red sign "DONT BRING CRAPPY LIGHTS AND/OR BUILDS HERE OR YOU'RE GONNA GET OWNED" - yes, when you got experience with the game this thing seems quite logical but then again... not so much for a new player.

Sooo all in all I am not blaming the new players for this.
I am though blaming PGI for placing completely beyond stupidly ineffective IS trial mechs while there's an FP event.
Also for the absence of guidelines how to play Scouting properly.
There are and always will be random players in the matches - without them the wating times will be unbearable - it's something all the people should get used to.
We can't do much about it and tbh giving the clans better trial medium/lights and the oppurtunity to be able to put some ridiculous **** builds like 5xSRM6/S-SRM6s, 12+Small Pulse Lasers and etc. doesn't help that one bit.
Skilled player can match those.
New player can't.
That's that.

Thus I posted the builds above - they are good starters.

[Kuritaclan]

Voidcrafter, on 11 July 2016 - 04:37 AM, said:

Sooo all in all I am not blaming the new players for this.

I don't blame them too. I abuse them as meat shield. Hmpf. That's why #PUG Lifes Doesn't Matter. See - if i get asked - I will awnser. If i have a 9th game in a row where i could bit in the desk, well then i even mumble "some nice words" via voip, what was wrong. I'm not against the mod. Heck, I don't even blame PGI for doing these events to bring some people into cw/fw/scouting. But to be honest, when the game launched there were more people around who actually thought about what they have to improve by themself to be a better team player. They looked up stuff. Now are much more people around, who are not that kind of player and therefore **** over the team. And because of that #PUG Lifes Doesn't Matter.

Edited by Kuritaclan, 11 July 2016 - 05:03 AM.

[Hit the Deck]

I'd like to write something more about Skillcrows. Yes, I'm in the camp who believes that Clan PUGs on average (the important bit) win more against IS PUGs because of using massed Streaks.

One main strength of Streaks is that teams which use the weapon can focus fire very easily below 400m because of the lock on mechanism. It is therefore very important for IS PUGs (or any Scouting team really) to identify the composition of the enemy team before committing to attack especially if they are bringing Crows. If you see Crows with missiles/Streaks pods, don't ever try to be an Hero and charge in first because all of those Skillcrows will lock on you and you will eat more than 9000 missiles! If you by any chance survive, I'm sure one or two of your limbs have already fallen out.

Now those Streaks have long cooldown and are hot! Kill those Crows with fire (bring Flamers and use them)! Form up and charge together and those Skillcrows are going down one by one easily.

Edited by Hit the Deck, 11 July 2016 - 07:04 AM.