45 replies to this topic

[Wintersdark]

Alistair Winter, on 02 July 2016 - 11:21 AM, said:

Yep. Only an idiot would buy the CTF-4X for real money.

But who cares about that, right? PGI already got their money. Why go back and change that ridiculous engine cap now?

Heh I bought mine for MC as well, though it was on sale at least. Sold it after skilling it up because I realised how horrible it was to drive. But I know that pain.

PGI has fixed old mechs from time to time in the past, though just being a single crappy variant, I'll admit it's unlikely to see any love outside of quirks... Which won't fix it, but to be honest I suspect that's equally matter of PGI just not really understanding how that engine cap makes the mech largely worthless as it is the whole "one variant of an old mech" issue.

[627]

Alistair Winter, on 02 July 2016 - 11:21 AM, said:

Yep. Only an idiot would buy the CTF-4X for real money.

For 2095 MC.

Back in 2012.

As their first mech ever in MWO.



But who cares about that, right? PGI already got their money. Why go back and change that ridiculous engine cap now?

As someone who bought Quickdraws because he didn't get his Orions...

[Bishop Steiner]

Wintersdark, on 02 July 2016 - 11:38 AM, said:

Theyve broken that rule so many times over the years - even before mechs came in packs - that it's really kind of unfair to blame them for "breaking the rule to sell more mech packs.".

The Marauder above, with the "rule based" engine cap would have been horrible. Just like the CTF 4X is. And sure, I imagine they where aware they'd sell practically zero if it where gimped, but the mech didn't end up OP at all - striving to release mechs as balanced as possible is a good thing, not bad.

And yeah, the 4X certainly needs something, but one broken mech doesn't mean others have to be as well.

I'd go so far as to say that the 1.3x stock thing is a rough guideline, not a rule. And that's a very good thing, because it would utterly ruin a lot of mechs/variants in MWO, unnecessarily. Instead, as a guideline it helps to differentiate mechs without arbitrarily rendering them DOA out of the gate.

No they aren't aware.

It WAS going to be gimped. I raised hell over it, and in fact some people fight against me about out in the forums. But it wouldn't have sold, at all with the original engine cap.

[Wintersdark]

BabyCakes666, on 02 July 2016 - 11:42 AM, said:

engine cap change with size change

i demand fast cents

most clan lights have high alphas

a fast cent would be a good counter

that big engine nerfs its fire power so now it on par with the lights

but more armor to deal with icc jenners and there srm vomit

Eh. Griffin's, Shadowhawks, Wolverines - all have large engine caps and offer wide build variety.

They're not going to change the other CN9 caps.

[Bishop Steiner]

BabyCakes666, on 02 July 2016 - 11:42 AM, said:

engine cap change with size change

i demand fast cents

most clan lights have high alphas

a fast cent would be a good counter

that big engine nerfs its fire power so now it on par with the lights

but more armor to deal with icc jenners and there srm vomit

It's already a good light counter. Demand away. No soup for you

[Wintersdark]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 July 2016 - 11:43 AM, said:

No they aren't aware.

It WAS going to be gimped. I raised hell over it, and in fact some people fight against me about out in the forums. But it wouldn't have sold, at all with the original engine cap.

Fair enough, and I do remember that - and was there with you in support of raising it.

Mind you, that leads to my other post above re: PGI not understanding why the 4X is screwed by its engine cap, why they'll keep trying to fix it via quirks, and thus why it'll always be trash.

Anyways, I'm glad they did change it because it WOULD have been utter trash with the low engine cap.

But as I said, it's clearly not a "rule" at all, given how very many exceptions exist, and is just a guideline at best.

[Wintersdark]

In all seriousness, I'd go so far as to directly oppose increasing the other cn9 engine caps.

We need more build restrictions, not less, to help avoid the Plague Of LegoMechs.

Engine caps should be high enough to avoid CTF-4X syndrome, but should not all just be very high or you lose aspects that make chassis different from each other. The last thing we need is more "slightly differently shaped bags of hard points"

That's just damned boring and leads to every mech being essentially identical on the battlefield after everyone smudges them into whatever the current meta is.

[Appogee]

It was a balancing/variety mechanic across Mech variants from waaaay back ... long before Clans,80 point alphas and 20-hardpoint power creep omnipods.

[C E Dwyer]

Alistair Winter, on 02 July 2016 - 11:21 AM, said:

Yep. Only an idiot would buy the CTF-4X for real money.

For 2095 MC.

Back in 2012.

As their first mech ever in MWO.



But who cares about that, right? PGI already got their money. Why go back and change that ridiculous engine cap now?

But by the time you get to the fight, the other teams mechs are already opened up

Bishop Steiner, on 02 July 2016 - 11:43 AM, said:

No they aren't aware.

It WAS going to be gimped. I raised hell over it, and in fact some people fight against me about out in the forums. But it wouldn't have sold, at all with the original engine cap.

well I bought one (because this dumb *** didn't read the engine caps) I didn't notice until the posts here, sure I could have asked for money back, but the engine cap was increased, and well it's so shiny and green

[Bishop Steiner]

Wintersdark, on 02 July 2016 - 11:53 AM, said:

In all seriousness, I'd go so far as to directly oppose increasing the other cn9 engine caps.

We need more build restrictions, not less, to help avoid the Plague Of LegoMechs.

Engine caps should be high enough to avoid CTF-4X syndrome, but should not all just be very high or you lose aspects that make chassis different from each other. The last thing we need is more "slightly differently shaped bags of hard points"

That's just damned boring and leads to every mech being essentially identical on the battlefield after everyone smudges them into whatever the current meta is.

Well,I would say that all mechs have an egnine cap that allows for the next movement level. So an 8/12 mech can become a 9/14 one. Or of course, if that would lead you to a 400, rating then obviously that. Other thing maybe is that any Caps be rounded UP to the nearest rating of 25. This was already done for CN9 and HBKs.

RFL? Not a 290, but a 300 cap. CPLT? Instead of a 315, a 325. BJ1? Instead of a 235, it gets a 250. It would ungimp a few mechs on the internal heatsink thing, too.

Given the overall whiny nature of the forums, I'm sure people would complain because VNDs and BJs didn't get a 255 engine cap "because the Xls weigh the same", etc, (same with 275/280, etc) but honestly, so what? People gonna QQ anyhow.

Appogee, on 02 July 2016 - 12:07 PM, said:

It was a balancing/variety mechanic across Mech variants from waaaay back ... long before Clans,80 point alphas and 20-hardpoint power creep omnipods.

Yeah, and I don't have an issue with it in and of itself, it just needs tweaking, like they did long ago, with CN9s and HBK being allowed 275s, the YLW a 300, etc. If the CTF-4X could run a 300, for instance, there would be no real reason for QQ. Heck a 280, even.

Of course it would still be bad because of knee level ACs, but that's a different story.

[badaa]

cent doesnt need a big engine i run most of mine with 250s xl and standered

[IdolElite]

I'm with everyone talking about the bigger stock engine on the Cent D. Really though I've never been bothered by the engine cap size on the other cents. Still faster than the hunchie. I just consider the cent not a fast medium, plenty of others that can fill that role.

As for the urbie breaking their rule, that's just sense, the marauder hero does it because people lost their minds when they first announced its original engine cap.

I do support the 4x and any other unnecessarily slow mechs having their engine caps raised beyond the limit. Maybe not as high as other variants but still raised some.

[The Lost Boy]

Why does ANY assault? Lore. Nothing else.

[Strum Wealh]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 July 2016 - 02:18 PM, said:

Well,I would say that all mechs have an egnine cap that allows for the next movement level. So an 8/12 mech can become a 9/14 one. Or of course, if that would lead you to a 400, rating then obviously that. Other thing maybe is that any Caps be rounded UP to the nearest rating of 25. This was already done for CN9 and HBKs.

Personally, I like the base idea, though I'd vote for a version that has the same limit in both directions.

That is, a 'Mech that has 4/6-equivalent stock movement speed would have an upper engine limit that allowed it to attain a 5/8-equivalent (really, 5/7.5-equivalent) movement speed AND a lower engine limit that allowed it to have a 3/5-equivalent (really, 3/4.5-equivalent) movement speed.
Likewise, a stock 8/12 'Mech could increase its speed to not more than 9/14 (9/13.5) or decrease its speed to not less than 7/11 (7/10.5).

So, for example, a CN9-A would have an upper limit of 250 and a lower limit of 150 while a CN9-D would have an upper limit of 350 and a lower limit of 250, while a MAD-3R would have an upper limit of 375 and a lower limit of 225, and an AS7-D would have an upper limit of 400 and a lower limit of 200.

So, it essentially becomes "stock Engine rating ± 'Mech tonnage" for every 'Mech (excluding OmniMechs, whose Engine ratings remain fixed).

Thoughts?

Edited by Strum Wealh, 02 July 2016 - 05:59 PM.

[BabyCakes666]

maby but TLDR

make cents go faster :/

they get MASC but dont have it in this game >_>

why is IS screwed on MASC ?

[oldradagast]

El Bandito, on 02 July 2016 - 07:09 AM, said:

Reason which I later stated. One Babycakes' wish pales in comparison to those of the horde who wanted non-canon Speedy Gonzales Urbie, and PGI knew that Urbie pack was gonna make them a lot of money. PGI is not gonna listen to the demands of a few, to change an old mech.

Point to consider: PGI is also a business. If selling super-slow and utterly unplayable except for "challenge" and trolling Urbanmechs would have been a total business flop, than they did the right thing by raising the engine cap to make them worth buying with real money, which PGI needs to stay in business. Having Lore-accurate and unplayable urbanmechs in MWO would not have been of value if PGI went under.

As for the Centurion, as a "slow" Medium, it has a low engine cap, except for the faster version, which has a much higher engine cap. That's just the way the system works in a nutshell.

Edited by oldradagast, 03 July 2016 - 06:14 AM.

[Wintersdark]

BabyCakes666, on 03 July 2016 - 05:56 AM, said:

maby but TLDR

make cents go faster :/

they get MASC but dont have it in this game >_>

why is IS screwed on MASC ?

Because there aren't many Battle mechs running our tech level that mount MASC? The CN9-D3D (3060-something iirc) also mounts ER lasers and a Light Gauss Rifle.

[BabyCakes666]

well if no new weapons then give more more engine cap

means i can take on storm crows in my cent

so far iv been giving them the D

dat lbx spam

[Lootee]

The game was a lot more fun with no engine caps.

If I remember right, engine caps came about due to 9 small laser Hunchbacks blazing around at 130kph. These days that build is just a bigger and easier to hit Arctic Cheetah.

They should just remove engine caps and let us build ludicrously fast anymech again.

[Y E O N N E]

Lootee, on 04 July 2016 - 01:19 PM, said:

The game was a lot more fun with no engine caps.

If I remember right, engine caps came about due to 9 small laser Hunchbacks blazing around at 130kph. These days that build is just a bigger and easier to hit Arctic Cheetah.

They should just remove engine caps and let us build ludicrously fast anymech again.

According to PGI's formula, the Locust is supposed to have a cap of 240.

I can see all the QQ now!