323 replies to this topic

[Zibmo]

Yeonne Greene, on 04 July 2016 - 05:44 PM, said:

I mean, a death in a well-developed respawn game has plenty of consequences. It's less resources available to the team, it's one less player in the immediate fight, it's one less player on the field for some predetermined amount of time. Basically, all the same consequences it has here, except the advantage gained by the opposing team is temporary and the onus is on them to take advantage of the opportunity. Here, the advantage is permanent and they don't really have to do anything except not die.

I dunno. The Counter-Strike game mode just doesn't seem right for BattleMechs Online.

I think adding respawns would prevent the "one guy died at the beginning (or there was a disco) so the game is essentially over" kind of gameplay.

It would certainly make objectives a lot more important. On the other hand, it would completely demolish Domination mode. Which I would be thankful for. Hate the mode.

[SuomiWarder]

After years of close to the same old thing, the predictability wears on one. As others pointed out, if your side loses 2 or 3 mechs to no enemy losses then you can pretty much assume your side will loose. I can't say that I have a good idea about how to fix that. Heck, it even makes logical sense. But many people play games assuming that they will be a major contributing factor by themselves (the "hero" of the story - which makes some sense, no one plays Fallout 4 to be a raider that never leaves the upper deck of a collapsed freeway after all) so they run off to find and shoot the enemy. Who is standing around in numbers and blasts them to bits. If you are unlucky and your team has two "heroes" and the other team drew no "heroes" your game is 90% chance of a loss before you even begin.

Fixing that? I don't know, tier levels based on games played? In game tests you have to pass to advance? Nothing I can think of is a rock solid fix.

But finally, after several years of anything one tends to get bored with it. Which is why WOW and ElderScrolls Online release new lands to visit to create new content periodically. PGI has tried with game modes - but the structure of the game limits what can be done.

[Moonlight Grimoire]

Skimming through this thread I have three things to input. First, I see a lot of Tier 1 and 2 tags on most of the people venting their frustration. Second, the frustrations being vented are the exact same ones I had when grinding my way out of Tier 5. The third thing I saw was that Tier 3 pilots were also having the same complaints which makes me feel that yes we need PSR to change from being an XP bar outside of Tier 5, badly.

I have burnt out a few times with MWO for the exact same reasons, before PSR and after PSR, fatigue from staleness, from predictable matches. What brought me back was a good long break, hearing the upcoming changes, and the drop of the Phoenix Hawk. But, that isn't a good thing in my book, the fact that I had to take such a long break multiple times and only when things like the Rescale are coming, or the change to heat scale, or a new game type or new (or redone) map. It sadly isn't new mechs that bring me back, it is something to shake things up that does. I do have to say that my time in Tier 4 has been the best time I have had in all of MWO due to I frequently get on voice coms and will lead 12-0 battles, while the score says a stomp the matches are generally close and everyone on my team generally comes out of it ecstatic at how good of a match it was due to it was close. Note, the fact that it was close is what makes it more fun, stomps are boring for people who like to play and enjoy playing instead of only enjoy the win. Hell, reading through the thread it isn't losing that is the problem, it is that the loss is nowhere near a close match.

I have heard also some varying information about the new player experience with new players quickly blowing through T5, T4, and into T3 in no time which puts them in the bad position of playing anyone and everyone in MWO. This is terrible, we need a proper rank system (we players don't need to know our exact rank) and have brackets of PSR as they are breaking up the player base into five parts along a bell curve with T3 being the center. Current PSR doesn't really work as a proper way to rank how people play and lead to instability in quality of matches as well as communication.

Now as for some gripes I heard about players seeming to have no situational awareness is I would add in the Tutorial a part where you start taking LRM fire and teach players how to dodge LRM fire (due to it is something that makes pilots panic) and that when they hear that there are missiles inbound that they should do a sky check for an enemy UAV and pop it. As it is, there is only so much we can do to help new players, you can give a person all the tools in the world and tell them what they are for, and they will still pick their favorite tool and proceed to try to make it work for as many things as they can.

Edit to add: Another thought hit me, Tier 5 was horribly frustrating to grind and get out of due to inconsistent teammates, lack of communication, and a general sense of majority of the people around me liked to lick the textures on the walls of the map. Tier 4 has been a very fun time for me with lots of coordination, cheerful players on both sides, and generally good matches. Friends of mine who went through T5, T4, T3, and into T2 have all said that they missed T4, in fact three of my friends who in the past month got into Tier 3 have done nothing but complain about terrible teams and stomps while I, in T4, rarely see a true stomp where I have players who weren't AFK or DC doing under 100 damage. Confirmation bias of course could be high and distorting this, but, given the amount of griping T3+ players have displayed here, I think there is fundamentally something wrong with the players getting into T3 (not the gripers but the people they are griping about) who seem to have not spent much time with the game.

Edited by Moonlight Grimoire, 06 July 2016 - 01:58 PM.

[wanderer]

If you end up with 2-3 down vs. your opponent's minimal damage- well, that's life folks. You're generally going to lose, because that's what happens when people potato out.

You can't fix potato. Potato is behind the keyboard, not the game mechanics. You might filter out potato, but that would take actually having a reasonable PSR/Tier system that required effort to advance.

Large amounts of intoxicants are likely behind the game mechanics and why you can't filter out potato.

[Ultimax]

adamts01, on 06 July 2016 - 01:21 AM, said:

I just hate the comp scene with a passion. So much peeking with the same min/maxed chassis over and over. So I quit for a year, start playing, get drunk to put up with pugs, quit for a year, have fun for a week, start to mix rum in my coffee for morning matches, then uninstall, then play for a couple weeks a few months later. I need something to replace MWO but there's just **** out there unless you like all the twitchy crap. Well, took 3 shots, ready to hit launch.

Good for you?

Let me guess you are a "casual" player, just "playing for fun" playing "fun builds".


Those "PUGs" you seem to have to put up with? Yeah that's you, you're one of them.

Edited by Ultimax, 06 July 2016 - 02:06 PM.

[wanderer]

Quote

Let me guess you are a "casual" player, just "playing for fun" playing "fun builds".


Those "PUGs" you seem to have to put up with? Yeah that's you, you're one of them.

https://mwomercs.com...0&user=adamts01

Why bother guessing when you can actually look at stats?

He's not part of the problem, given he usually takes out two people for every time he dies and has an above-average W/L record with over 400 games logged so far.

In fact, his stats are pretty close to yours- except you've played 21 games so far to his 400+. If he's part of the problem, so are you.

[MrVei]

for me, ttk is a issue. for me mechs should only have hardpoints for the stock load out and no more. fewer weapons would get players to think and not just build a meta mech and fly up to rank 2. but PGI doesnt want to make the player base mad by making big changes to the game. fewer weapons also would help with all the weapon buff/nerfs we seen over the past few years. plus new weapons would breath new life into this old game.
also fewer weapons on a mech would solve the heat/ghost heat fixes PGI used to dumb down the meta mechs they dont like seeing in games

[adamts01]

Metus regem, on 06 July 2016 - 10:12 AM, said:

Fallout 4 has buildable robot companions...

the assaultron is a beast as a companion...

Difficulty on that game goes from "easy button" to "**** your last 2 hours of life" kind if brutal with no saves. I'm on my 3rd playthrough on survival but there's always some stupid **** that kills me and thanks to no saves I lose like 1 1/2 hours and quit for a week. I still manage to find new missions and places somehow even on my 3rd playthrough. That's cool. I need to get the expansions.

Ultimax, on 06 July 2016 - 02:05 PM, said:

Good for you?

Let me guess you are a "casual" player, just "playing for fun" playing "fun builds".


Those "PUGs" you seem to have to put up with? Yeah that's you, you're one of them.

I'd argue that if you're not "playing for fun" in "fun builds" then you're the one with a problem. I'm definitely a "casual" player. I don't stress about having perfect aim, don't run FOTM mechs, don't care about stats or leaderboards. What frustrates me is the complete lack of teamwork outside of comp play, and then how serious the comp crowd takes everything. There's no middle ground, at least I haven't been able to find it in 4 years.

[VXJaeger]

Another thing that ticks me off is, that first PGI designs clan weapons such manner that only lazors are effective (spray & pray cannons, squirting LRM etc).
Then when PPL notice this and use that lazor vomit, they start weeping, complaining and nerfing weapons because PPL use them as effective way as is possible.
Right now those weapon nerfs, superquirks and C-DHS nerfs have done that C-assault will lose head-on shootout to 4*LPL IS-heavy.
Only in MWO

[Ultimax]

adamts01, on 06 July 2016 - 04:24 PM, said:

I'd argue that if you're not "playing for fun" in "fun builds" then you're the one with a problem. I'm definitely a "casual" player. I don't stress about having perfect aim, don't run FOTM mechs, don't care about stats or leaderboards. What frustrates me is the complete lack of teamwork outside of comp play, and then how serious the comp crowd takes everything. There's no middle ground, at least I haven't been able to find it in 4 years.

1) "Fun" build is subjective. Something that fails (does not produce winning) is not fun to me - because losing is not fun to me, especially when the loss was something I could have controlled.

2) You profess to not care about any of those things, but then go on to care about how others lack teamwork? Newsflash, playing weak/bad builds is the first step towards not caring about teamwork.


You can make yourself feel better about it if you want, but if you aren't playing this game to win - then you should accept the fact that your experience will be at the mercy of the competency of others.


You state there is no middle ground - what do you even propose?

There is "not caring" so you can have "fun" and there is playing to win.

You are either playing to win, or you are not. If you are not playing to win, why do you care if you lose?

[Karl Streiger]

Ultimax, on 07 July 2016 - 02:21 AM, said:

You state there is no middle ground - what do you even propose?

There is "not caring" so you can have "fun" and there is playing to win.

You are either playing to win, or you are not. If you are not playing to win, why do you care if you lose?

Everybody plays to win - i he says otherwise its a liar. Ok going down in a blaze of glory is also great but it has to be satisfactory. Nothing that happens often in MWO and if only because the other team is even less organized than your own.

But I think what he was proposing was an MM based on the Mech you choose. So a place (aka middleground) where you can take the Panther and have a solid Mech - as long as you don't have to face a Banshee 3S.

or if you have to face a BNC-3S mission goals that allow you to fade - to take pop shots at extreme distance and trade space for time.

maybe the Stock Lobby without quirks could become the middle ground for many like him, like me. Still a competition but with different parameters (random assigment - when the GM says you have to take a JM6-S - you have to make the best)

[adamts01]

Ultimax, on 07 July 2016 - 02:21 AM, said:

You can make yourself feel better about it if you want, but if you aren't playing this game to win - then you should accept the fact that your experience will be at the mercy of the competency of others.

There is "not caring" so you can have "fun" and there is playing to win.

You are either playing to win, or you are not. If you are not playing to win, why do you care if you lose?

Running the latest greatest FOTM build is like buying a new motorcycle every year. Your bike might be the fastest thing on the block, but it's so much more fulfilling floating your front tire out of a corner right past one of those rich kids on your 10 year old hoopty held together by zip ties and duct tape. Just because he doesn't choose the most fancy toy doesn't mean the guy racing the bike held together with JB Weld isn't trying any less. And of course part of that is accepting that and equally skilled rider on a better machine is going to beat you. I hope that makes sense, the world isn't as black and white of a picture as you paint it.

[The Iron Chancellor]

Took a break since a few months back, after having gotten the mechs
I wanted between my IS primary and Clan alt account.
I wanted to play other games.
Been logging in every now and again to play a few matches.

The unnecessary changes (I mean, the downgrade) they decided to enforce on the mini-map for whatever reason made sure I'll be staying offline with the rare exception of perhaps playing a few matches with friends.

The re-scaling is another subject, I could probably get used to that, in time.
Wouldn't have been the first time some mechs got the nerf-nuke and others got the olive-branch.

But this mini-map, I used voip regularly in solo queue matches, and while it didn't always work/result in a win, it allowed for solo queue matches to be enjoyable more often, regardless of win and loss.
Thanks to this specific change however, most of the important information is obscured now, be it the terrain, where the enemies are pointed at to shoot on site, planning flanking moves etc.

That's my major gripe, as it stands.

Edited by The Iron Chancellor, 07 July 2016 - 09:32 AM.

[MrVei]

i think the game could make use of a ranking system based on the mech and its load out. other games like robocraft do this for match making and it works well. that way meta mechs and play together and people like myself that run classic builds play with others that do the same. it could factor in the semi-useless pilot skill as well? what do you all think of that idea?

[MechLord71]

I have also tired of the game. PGI has profited from my nostalgia for Mechwarrior games and the Battletech universe to date, but even that nostalgia is not enough to keep me playing MWO. The game offered by PGI is just not enough for me. Zero feeling of progression/advancement. Zero feeling that what I do in game matters. Most of my old unit is gone and does not play anymore. They have been replaced by a new wave of stat padding hangback players so they can fuel their ego with erroneous stats. Little to no teamwork for the most part unless you find a solid unit.

I faithfully supported this game from the beginning in hope that it would grow and prosper; it has not grown. It is incredibly stagnate and while I am a sucker for the cool looking new mechs....the truth is I think I will just copy and save the picture to my drive and save my precious game time and dollars for something....more. At this point in my life I have money to spend on what I want and enjoy, but I have less free time than in my youth. Given the lack of time I feel I owe myself a better investment and agree with the OP.

Best of luck to all and I truly hope this game or another game captures the intrigue and excitement of battletech/mechwarrior some day. I would love to play that game.

[DAYLEET]

KisumiKitsune, on 06 July 2016 - 12:55 PM, said:

that just means that, by definition of the ticket system, they're really chunking their team just to end up in mechs they like again.

We don't even need ticket system. Capture all objective, hold them and win or the game dont end.

[Navy Sixes]

I quit playing almost 2 years ago. I just came by the forums today on a lark and found this thread.

Honestly, the biggest reason I stopped playing MWO was grad school. But as far as in-game frustration, the AC-2 nerf and the Clans really sucked a lot of the joy away for me.

AC-2's were a good system that were nerfed so that PGI could introduce heavy/assault mechs with lots of ballistic hardpoints. The nerf may have brought these AC-2 boats into balance, but it really punished medium mechs that could carry a pair of AC-2's effectively, making more than one ballistic hardpoint on a medium useless.

I felt like there was so much struggle to get any kind of game balance or new maps or anything else right that PGI really rushed into the clans way too fast. Many of us wanted to see some sort of Inner Sphere "Succession Wars" CW before the clan invasions.

All in all, I felt that PGI was too accommodating of a specific style of play: big slow mechs built for long range PPD. CW (I guess it's FW now in newsspeak) put an end to dakka and LRMs (which were already nerfed down, mostly because the big slow long range PPD crowd hated them).

In short, at first I felt like I was being invited to figure out the game and my style of play on my own terms. I built the mechs I wanted to run, tailored to the way I wanted to run them. There was a meta, sure. There always is, but I had a lot of fun bucking it and for all their issues, at least PGI made that possible.

After a couple years, however, I felt I was being ushered away from my style of play as nerfs, Clans, and FW conspired to diminish and render useless many weapons and mechs. And PGI's solutions always felt to me like the wrong way to go: quirks seemed to me a nasty can of balance-worms, and with mech-sales as their primary income, it felt like mech packages were the only thing that generated any interest.

My two cents

Edited by Tycho von Gagern, 12 July 2016 - 08:31 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

Tycho von Gagern, on 12 July 2016 - 08:30 AM, said:

...

I remember your name Tycho

The AC2 is paradigmatic for the weapon handling and the issues with weapons in MWO.
The AC2 back before the nerf was indeed a very capable and powerful weapon - at least when you did mount two guns. But it started to become OP when you had 3 or more.

This is also the case for all weapons in this game - each and every: 1 worthless, 2 OK, 3 OP (yes hyperbole)

As usually MWO seems to have no real concept.
Look - you need roles it is even a pillar of MWO. role-warfare; and role-warfare isn't limited to Scout, Missileboat, Brawler - it starts with the guns.

Again Wandering Samurai seems to have done a much better job.

AC 2 and AC 5 - anti-air = check (oh they had their own problems) but usually those guns were useless fighting Mechs or Tanks. The bigger guns did behave completely different.

While in MWO its all the same just with TT damage (bad design decision) and different ranges (not linked to speed) TT heat (bad design) and different Rate Of Fires (not enough)

You can add that usually a change of today is invalidated by a change tomorrow. Take for example the AC 10.
It was granted more ammunition to have more worth for Mechs like Summoner, Orion, Gargoyle. But this gun already had an excellent range/heat/damage ratio - the only problem was it was mediocre - its 10 point damage was worthless vs double armor even when you hit with every shot - other guns (primary LPL) gave you a better weight/damage ratio - and energy hps are more common and not limited to size.

However when you be able to boat this gun (1 meh, 2 ok, 3op) things change drastically.

We don't have a IS Mech capable of having 3 AC 10s jet (Ilya but that is a slow big target with XL engine) but with maybe a Cerberus or Annihilator this would change.

The KDK-3 for example well while Quad UAC10 was obviously as soon as the KDK was available for sale i thought it wouldn't be that bad - with 0.14sec delay between the shots. But look at the numbers (the Daka Whale - featured 6 UAC5s - at first without ghost heat. 3 pellets per shot each 1.667 dmg. That sumed up to 10dmg every 0.13sec.
It was the way to go.

Now the KDK-3 (well at least it seems that the UAC10 finally got ghost heat too?) - anyhow we are speaking today about 3 pellets each 3.33dmg and every 0.11sec (0.03sec doesn't sound much but it sums up) so we are talking about 13.32dmg every 0.11sec this Mech is even more dangerous as the Daka Whale, not even to mention speed, and location of the HPs.

As said missing concepts is one of the biggest issue of this game - maybe there is a concept but none of us seems to understand the red-line. That means Paul is either a genius and has more intelligence as the whole community (swarm inteligence) - or everything is done by feel.

---

Anyhow - MWO has exactly one thing that no other games seem to offer. The Droplead and group gameplay. I think most of the game we see today is based on the making of different queues for SOLO and Group - without providing a VoIP or Command wheel at the very same moment. Not to forget about ECM and the missing Doritos. ECM was extremely powerful in SoloPug games - and it is still.

I provided dc for solo drops during closed and open beta until the day ECM was introduced. The good thing was usually I dropped in a group of 3-4 players and this was the backbone of our team - the other solos got guidance and were assisted. So not the pug farming group but the pug assisting group - of course something like this shouldn't exist and the queues were split. PLUS the game changed from 8vs8 to 12v12. Everything without proper communictation tools.

Today we have VoIP and a command wheel - but it is not the same in comparison to a "real" Drop-Command. It starts with the Mechs of your party. A PUG match is random here. In a unit I know about the expertise of my pilots and can use them in this way.
When spare time would not be the issue i would play MWO only in a group or a small unit. Of course, MWO could be played as short battle before breakfast but this is not very appiling so I stopped playing active MWO (lobby from time to time) until i have enough spare time - 4-6h per week to spend in group games.


So long text but TLDR:
MWO is a great game when you have enough time to spare and play it with a unit of friends. The most joy MWO can offer is to be successful as drop commander because this is the part with the thinking in this shooter.
MWO is lacking the concept to successful deliver group or solo player experince starting with weapons, over mechs and game modes as well as tools to communicat. Because MechWarrior or BattleTech is everything about the unit -not about the individual

Edited by Karl Streiger, 12 July 2016 - 10:42 PM.

[Simbacca]

Bishop Steiner, on 06 July 2016 - 12:10 PM, said:

I know how you feel. I consider myself, in reality, a high tier 3, maybe on a good day with a better system than I currently have, a low tier 2. I'm halfway to tier 1, and simply am not a tier 1 player in skill, or mentality, since I would rather play a lore correct game, than a Meta game.

Where I am arguably tier 1 is understanding of the game and tactics, but not in actual player skill.

PSR is pretty much match score, not a measure of skill - and there are so many ways to legitimately inflate match score. Doing certain (actions some of which helps the team) brings in excellent XP and C-Bill awards, but badly inflates a player's PSR rating. In Faction Play - these same actions are a simple means to increase payout. But these actions do not demonstrate skill.

=First one to target foe mech.
="Assists" via just touching the foe.
="LRM Spotting", when you just kept the target lock to keep track of damage inflicted/or need the lock yourself for your own SSRM or LRMs.

In Quick or Group Play I have simply resorted to avoiding doing certain actions I used to do under the old ELO system.
=No more targeting when possible
=No more UAVs (I reserve these now for Faction Warfare - when I do play during events)

Because somehow MM considers me to be an excellent player (I am average or at best above average) it expects me to carry the team when I cannot. I am constantly being put in lopsided match after lopsided match. To reduce the degree of PSR inflation I had to stop doing certain team assisting functions, which in itself is perverse in a team-based game.

[XX Sulla XX]

Seems I am crazy I am still having fun and playing (When my internet does not go out randomly all the time arrgghhh.).