323 replies to this topic

[Krzysztof z Bagien]

What drove me away? Pretty much everything that has been said in this thread.
Also Paul Inouye. Well, maybe not him personaly, but rather his almost magical ability to fix nonexsistant problems with overcomplicated solutions, that in turn create real problems, that apparently must be fixed in even more complicated way... which causes another set of problems and so on.

[Bishop Steiner]

Yeonne Greene, on 04 July 2016 - 05:36 PM, said:

Even if it were a big combined-arms, conquest-style game where 'Mechs are locked to their lore values and what you can drop in is dependent on C-bills available to the team at that moment?

Yes. I find respawn tends to lead to mindless rush mentality. Sure it's mitigated in higher tiers in games, and comp scenes, but the causal queues are usually chock full of rambo rushing idiots. So we'd trade the overcautious cowardice of MWO for braindead suicide rushes.

Having one life, having consequences, is one of the better facets of MWO. One that could have been made even better with proper immersive aiming and actual heat effects.

[Y E O N N E]

Bishop Steiner, on 04 July 2016 - 05:41 PM, said:

Yes. I find respawn tends to lead to mindless rush mentality. Sure it's mitigated in higher tiers in games, and comp scenes, but the causal queues are usually chock full of rambo rushing idiots. So we'd trade the overcautious cowardice of MWO for braindead suicide rushes.

Having one life, having consequences, is one of the better facets of MWO. One that could have been made even better with proper immersive aiming and actual heat effects.

I mean, a death in a well-developed respawn game has plenty of consequences. It's less resources available to the team, it's one less player in the immediate fight, it's one less player on the field for some predetermined amount of time. Basically, all the same consequences it has here, except the advantage gained by the opposing team is temporary and the onus is on them to take advantage of the opportunity. Here, the advantage is permanent and they don't really have to do anything except not die.

I dunno. The Counter-Strike game mode just doesn't seem right for BattleMechs Online.

[Davegt27]

the new Frozen City seems pretty fun (only done like 4 drops on it)

thought I would throw something positive in the thread

[Johnny Z]

Davegt27, on 04 July 2016 - 05:47 PM, said:

the new Frozen City seems pretty fun (only done like 4 drops on it)

thought I would throw something positive in the thread

Yep its great. I assume that the Solaris maps will be more close range evening out the map options quite nicely.

I look forward to some even larger maps more generic but sprawling maps, like a huge forest map, desert dunes map and rolling plains map. As well a giant metro map of course as well.

The could even do a very long beach map with water bounding one side entirely and making it a head on situation.

Edited by Johnny Z, 04 July 2016 - 05:55 PM.

[wanderer]

Johnny Z, on 04 July 2016 - 03:50 PM, said:

About this quote here. The match maker in game is the best that has ever been made for any game ever. Everything about it is the best possible. Trolls panicking the pools getting to big and legit veteran players becoming a standard for matches, and newbie areas protected from trolls, is, I hope something that wont change.

You realize the "trolls" are simply starting new accounts, diving into T5, and having a good ol' roflstomping time of things?

Quote

This quote here is suggesting that a troll should be able to purposely lose matches until he drops a tier, ruining many matches, then when in newbie land, butcher a bunch of newbies, going back up a tier, then he loses a bunch of matches to drop down a tier again, and so on. This is what many are asking for, and they know it.

Actually, they're marching the newbies straight into the T3+ shark tank. That's what I'm talking about here. Why would a troll worry about bouncing around the bottom when he can start a freebie account, tank it, kit up that one robot with his "newbie bonus" and proceed to tool every newbie in the place? Your inane thought process of "LOL HE WANTS TO CLUB SEALS" being behind a desire to actually make going up in tiers tougher is simultaneously horrifying, disgusting, and pathetic.

Quote

So ANYONE asking for "changes" to the tier system is asking for this, just so everyone knows.

No. No they're not, you cloud-cuckooland la-la lotus eater.

Quote

The current situation will only improve with more player numbers and the addition of a proper tutorial and new player introduction. Those wishing to troll will be forced to continually make new alts that can only troll for a small amount of time, and that will become more and more difficult with a proper new player experience/introduction.

Because making a free account is so incredibly difficult my eyeballs bleed at the pressure I get just THINKING about such a gargantuan task. In a game built around F2P players. You can't frickin' get rid of trolls or seal clubbers as long as the game is so one-dimensional that you get the same experience from a chain of throwaway accounts as you do playing the game. Heck, we've already had trolls that did just that, up to and including being super-salty TK-festing twits that took IP bans to boot.

Look. You want to make tiers work?

1) Increase the match score needed to get X by 50 points per tier. You hit tier 4? You now need 150+ to gain any PSR on a win instead of 100+. You need 300+ to at least break even on a loss. T3? Now it's 200/350. T2? 250/400. T1? 300/450.

2) You reduce the grind with higher tiers. T5 is -5% XP/Cbills (sorry, you're in easy mode). T4 is break even. T3 gains +5% XP/Cbills. T2 +10%. T1 +15%. This is added to the base totals before multipliers for premium time and the like. Bottom feeders get less rewards. Getting higher tiers is a carrot.

3) You increase PSR loss by 25% and put a second tier of PSR loss in for failing that starts at 50 match score on a loss and increases with each tier by 50 (100-150-200). Tier loss actually becomes a threat when playing.

4) You drop one tier from your highest tier achieved, you simply revert to whatever the norm is. You drop two or more, the penalty is doubled- a T1 player that drops to T2 simply loses that 5% bonus, but a T1 player that drops to T3 loses -20% (net -15%), T4 -30% (net -30%), T5 a whopping -45% (base -5% with a -40% penalty) loss of exp/C-bills. Dunking your own account applies a stick. Getting someone else to boost your account's tier past your own skill backlashes by applying a stick, too.

5) You add unique rewards that require a Tier 3+ to purchase AND use of a cosmetic nature. Paints. Cockpit items like warhorns. (And you do similar things for FW as well.). Again, carrots for being good and staying good. We should have more carrots than sticks. T1? Unique geometry options for your 'Mechs. (similar ones for top FW ranks, too)

[Lykaon]

I have been around since June 2012 myself and I have reached a similar point.

Except I can isolate some factors for my attention wandering.

It's the masses of MWo. The bulk of the players seem to be satified with smash em up robots with as little challange or variance as possible.

This is why an average session of MWo goes like this.

HPG manifold - skirmish
Canyon Network - skirmish
HPG manifold - domination
Some other map or some other mode
HPG manifold - domination
Mining collective - skirmish
Canyon - domination
HPG-skirmish-hpg-skirmish-canyon-skirmish-mining skirmish....yaaaawwwnnn.


There is an immediate assumption that certain maps are for a certain game play style. And using any other type of build on that particular map is forbidden.

"polar is not a brawling map" ...this is utter crap it is a brawler map if you are not expecting to have idiot proof cover the whole time you close distance and it may actually require team support to be successful. "It's not a brawler map" really means it's not an ideal situation for a brawler and may require some thinking.

Most of the players in MWo prefer to pilot heavy mechs and assault mechs. And the smaller more focused maps choked with near fool proof cover are the easiest to pilot an alpha spammer heavy or assault.

The smaller the map is the fewer the variables are. There is a far lower demand on brain power to figure out where to point your 40 PPFLD spam machine.

And if you can limit the victory conditions even further my always playing skirmish there are no pesky objectives to get between you and your alpha spam.

It leads to a very narrow focus on the game that favors a narrow band of mech chassis and builds that are seemingly endlessly grinding skirmish after skirmish on whatever the smallest map is presented as an option.

At least until someone who isn't the drooling masses has built up enough vote modifiers to get a match on a larger map that isn't a skirmish where the drooling masses of your team mates haven't a clue on how to play because their tactical minds have atrified on a steady diet of tiny map skirmish.

Edited by Lykaon, 04 July 2016 - 06:53 PM.

[Davers]

I think it's the illusion of choice. There are lots of weapons and mechs, but many are just subpar choices. I always find myself playing the same mechs. Then when I buy a new one, I wonder why I bothered since it just isn't as good as what I have been playing. And then I I am out millions of Cbills for no good reason.

[Hillslam]

For me I moved on when the endless monotony of team deathmatch ad nauseum got too repetitively boring.

Moved over to ... wait for it... other team deathmatch games. World of Tank. World of Warships. WarThunder. Overwatch. Battlefield 1. Etc Etc Etc Etc.

Realized "well s**t, I'm really bored of all of them". (PS - don't get me started on the full r3t@rd that is "eSports")

There needs to be more to do in these games now. They're all blurring together. My money and time has dried up for them anymore.


I'll return when there's PvE and missions worth doing.

Edited by Hillslam, 04 July 2016 - 07:01 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Hillslam, on 04 July 2016 - 06:59 PM, said:

For me I moved on when the endless monotony of team deathmatch ad nauseum got too repetitively boring.

Moved over to ... wait for it... other team deathmatch games. World of Tank. World of Warships. WarThunder. Overwatch. Battlefield 1. Etc Etc Etc Etc.

Realized "well s**t, I'm really bored of all of them". (PS - don't get me started on the full r3t@rd that is "eSports")

There needs to be more to do in these games now. They're all blurring together. My money and time has dried up for them anymore.


I'll return when there's PvE and missions worth doing.

They're making me miss my old Super Nintendo and Nintendo 64, and back when games were something other than team death match.

[shopsmart]

If PGI would open up map making to the community with certain parameters. Then have it submitted for review and addition to the game. It actually might help.

[Scout Derek]

sorry for the edit but I could not stand the title spelling >.<

[JediPanther]

The only time seem to have fun in the game any more are the rare times I do stuff with unit members just doing an hour or two of fp or qp matches then I'm done. I was really hoping the resized catapult and hero would get me back into the game more but with pgi flat out not knowing how to do something as basic as a mini map which most games from the late eighties and on ward could do a map of some kind I just said screw the hero mech purchase. I plan to get it on sale as my final purchase. This game doesn't even have tutorials for the game modes except youtube and just rambo-ing into them.

The game use to be fun experimenting with mix builds on mechs and trying them to see what happens for you in a few matches.Teams use to try and work as teams when every mech counted in the 8 vs 8 area. since I hit T3 it's been nothing but more and more meta and high alpha mechs. Forget a lights' 32 alpha. That is nothing compared to med,heavy and assaults alphas ranging from dual ac 2os to quad guass or uacs 1os kdks.

Some times the only thing keeping me playing is the urge to just lrm some thing or run a troll ac 2o rvn 4x.

[Johnny Z]

wanderer, on 04 July 2016 - 06:28 PM, said:

You realize the &quot;trolls&quot; are simply starting new accounts, diving into T5, and having a good ol' roflstomping time of things?



Actually, they're marching the newbies straight into the T3+ shark tank. That's what I'm talking about here. Why would a troll worry about bouncing around the bottom when he can start a freebie account, tank it, kit up that one robot with his &quot;newbie bonus&quot; and proceed to tool every newbie in the place? Your inane thought process of &quot;LOL HE WANTS TO CLUB SEALS&quot; being behind a desire to actually make going up in tiers tougher is simultaneously horrifying, disgusting, and pathetic.



No. No they're not, you cloud-cuckooland la-la lotus eater.



Because making a free account is so incredibly difficult my eyeballs bleed at the pressure I get just THINKING about such a gargantuan task. In a game built around F2P players. You can't frickin' get rid of trolls or seal clubbers as long as the game is so one-dimensional that you get the same experience from a chain of throwaway accounts as you do playing the game. Heck, we've already had trolls that did just that, up to and including being super-salty TK-festing twits that took IP bans to boot.

Look. You want to make tiers work?

1) Increase the match score needed to get X by 50 points per tier. You hit tier 4? You now need 150+ to gain any PSR on a win instead of 100+. You need 300+ to at least break even on a loss. T3? Now it's 200/350. T2? 250/400. T1? 300/450.

2) You reduce the grind with higher tiers. T5 is -5% XP/Cbills (sorry, you're in easy mode). T4 is break even. T3 gains +5% XP/Cbills. T2 +10%. T1 +15%. This is added to the base totals before multipliers for premium time and the like. Bottom feeders get less rewards. Getting higher tiers is a carrot.

3) You increase PSR loss by 25% and put a second tier of PSR loss in for failing that starts at 50 match score on a loss and increases with each tier by 50 (100-150-200). Tier loss actually becomes a threat when playing.

4) You drop one tier from your highest tier achieved, you simply revert to whatever the norm is. You drop two or more, the penalty is doubled- a T1 player that drops to T2 simply loses that 5% bonus, but a T1 player that drops to T3 loses -20% (net -15%), T4 -30% (net -30%), T5 a whopping -45% (base -5% with a -40% penalty) loss of exp/C-bills. Dunking your own account applies a stick. Getting someone else to boost your account's tier past your own skill backlashes by applying a stick, too.

5) You add unique rewards that require a Tier 3+ to purchase AND use of a cosmetic nature. Paints. Cockpit items like warhorns. (And you do similar things for FW as well.). Again, carrots for being good and staying good. We should have more carrots than sticks. T1? Unique geometry options for your 'Mechs. (similar ones for top FW ranks, too)

This system that is upward only works to have experienced legit players at the top.

A long upward struggle to get to tier 1. Anyone says different is lying.

If players went down in tiers it would promote a thing called dethreating. It is something happens in match makers not as good as this one.

I'm not going into details but I can only imagine the match fixers are none to pleased with this current match maker. With more players involved it will only be way better. As the game gets more feature complete the situation for legit players will only improve.

As the cheats get banned and have to face a long uphill battle to get back to top tier, eventually ONLY excellent legit veteran players will be top tier. As it should be.

I laugh at the match fixers and cheats. So hard. That they have to deal with this match maker. Good times.

Edited by Johnny Z, 04 July 2016 - 07:28 PM.

[MadcatX]

I really wouldn't say it's a sudden thing myself.

With the majority of the content being mechs, the map and mode voting essentially eliminating half the maps and modes so there's less content there, FW being lacking, I find burnout is just something that can come about rather quickly in this game and even I'm amazed at folks who can put in hours a day and still have fun.

I do find having joined a unit has kept me around and kicking a bit longer then usual though, some good folks to group up with and chat with on a TS as well as coordinate with on the map does make it more enjoyable.

[Wintersdark]

Yeonne Greene, on 04 July 2016 - 05:44 PM, said:

I mean, a death in a well-developed respawn game has plenty of consequences. It's less resources available to the team, it's one less player in the immediate fight, it's one less player on the field for some predetermined amount of time. Basically, all the same consequences it has here, except the advantage gained by the opposing team is temporary and the onus is on them to take advantage of the opportunity. Here, the advantage is permanent and they don't really have to do anything except not die.

I dunno. The Counter-Strike game mode just doesn't seem right for BattleMechs Online.

The problem with respawn is that while death has consequences, it has consequences for the team, not the dying player. This leads to an even worse player psychology than we have - cowardice is understandable, believable. Gross over recklessness and serving may lead to loss, but it's also stupid.

People SHOULD fear dying; it makes the hard choice, the brave choice, the right choice.

No doubt at all: if we had respawn, I'd have uninstalled at that moment and never looked back. I understand the pro-respawn arguments (particularly that it's easier to make "interesting game modes" but it's moving the burden of death off the player... Yuck.

[Wintersdark]

Bishop Steiner, on 04 July 2016 - 07:08 PM, said:

They're making me miss my old Super Nintendo and Nintendo 64, and back when games were something other than team death match.

It's what's stopped me from getting into WoWS. That's totally a game I'd love; I just adore naval combat. But... More PvP death matches? No thanks.

It's the cheap and easy route as the developers don't really need to actually make content.

I'm done with that. MWO was my first serious time in online deathmatch PvP games, and it will be my last.

[Y E O N N E]

Wintersdark, on 04 July 2016 - 07:27 PM, said:

The problem with respawn is that while death has consequences, it has consequences for the team, not the dying player. This leads to an even worse player psychology than we have - cowardice is understandable, believable. Gross over recklessness and serving may lead to loss, but it's also stupid.

People SHOULD fear dying; it makes the hard choice, the brave choice, the right choice.

No doubt at all: if we had respawn, I'd have uninstalled at that moment and never looked back. I understand the pro-respawn arguments (particularly that it's easier to make "interesting game modes" but it's moving the burden of death off the player... Yuck.

People will fear dying in a respawn game because KDR. Actually, even games like Battlefield have a larger problem with cowardice than they do recklessness. Too often you have a bunch of players that want to just hang back and snipe or fly the always-OP airplanes, letting the enemy run amok through the control points since there are no boots on the ground. This kind of game is decidedly different from a game like Halo, where everybody runs headlong to their deaths at the hands of the sniper sitting on top of Blood Gulch's teleporter hill.

[Wintersdark]

Bishop Steiner, on 04 July 2016 - 05:41 PM, said:

Yes. I find respawn tends to lead to mindless rush mentality. Sure it's mitigated in higher tiers in games, and comp scenes, but the causal queues are usually chock full of rambo rushing idiots. So we'd trade the overcautious cowardice of MWO for braindead suicide rushes.

Having one life, having consequences, is one of the better facets of MWO. One that could have been made even better with proper immersive aiming and actual heat effects.

Yup. No matter what the rest of the game was, that would totally ruin it for me. No amount of awesome side stuff would make up for stupid respawn PvP, not for me.

[Bishop Steiner]

Procurator Derek, on 04 July 2016 - 07:18 PM, said:

sorry for the edit but I could not stand the title spelling &gt;.&lt;

Help!

I'm being repressed!