323 replies to this topic

[wanderer]

Johnny Z, on 04 July 2016 - 08:02 PM, said:

Lvl grinds are trash. Lvl based power in games are trash. MechWarrior Online took the only good thing about an "EXP" bar and that's using it to quantify a players actual "EXP". Awsome.

Any other complaints you have would not be improved at all by any changes to the current best of any online game match maker.

Your SAN check just bounced, because the tier bar doesn't show experience, it shows "time played".

Quote

Like I said before, the situation will only improve with time, as the game becomes more feature complete, with more player numbers.

The rest of your insults make me giggle because all I see is someone who doesn't like things being done properly.

You realize I've been here since 2011, right?

The situation isn't going to improve with time. With time, more and more players will end up shoved into T3 and T2 regardless of actual skill thanks to simply playing at a mediocre standard and the Brownian motion of the matchmaker will carry them upwards simply because when you have enough random derps in teams, someone competent is going to carry and everyone will get a nice ribbon- er, PSR+ bump for being on the same team.

Sometimes that's me on a 4-6 kill bender. Sometimes it's someone else. Most rarely in the games I'm in, it's actually a team effort where nobody ends up with more than 2 kills but we're all magically around the same match score and the reds are all deads, but "carry" matches are far, far more common.

That's because you don't have to get better to gain PSR, hence you don't have to get better to rise in tiers. If you hit the minimum needed to get a + on wins, you will eventually end up T3+. Mathematically so given the average player has about a 50% W/L rate and PSR+'s are higher than PSR-minuses's. The only difference is in who carries the team and how hard they can carry- a Proton can literally kill off 10/12 of an enemy team when he's on a roll, the average T1-2 carrier seems to be in the same range as me- 4-6 kills.

It doesn't sort players. Quite the opposite, it DEsorts players by mashing them into the same queue without attention to actual ability, as the PSR system manages to muddle that severely thanks to having such generously low requirements to advance.

Edited by wanderer, 04 July 2016 - 10:11 PM.

[Davers]

Johnny Z, on 04 July 2016 - 08:18 PM, said:

This game is bare of many features or much content at the moment. The situation will only improve.

The game has been in a playable state for over 4 years, and they are still working out basic stuff like mech sizes and how they want weapons to work (Ghost Heat 2.0). Their game modes show that they do not understand their playerbase, or how the game is played- remember when FW only had 1 unprotected generator?

This thread is filled with people who have waited for the situation to improve, and they don't feel it has. If after 4 years it's still "bare of many features or much content" do you really think there is going to be some huge change in their output, especially since they have slowed down their patching schedule?

[Gladius Vittoris]

Bishop Steiner, on 04 July 2016 - 08:14 PM, said:

You might actually want to read Russ and Paul's posts on PSR.

The time I asked for a zero based sum PRS between 24 players....Pgi ceo asked what a zero based sum is.....

gg clothes

Edited by Gladius Vittoris, 04 July 2016 - 10:10 PM.

[Funkin Disher]

Bishop Steiner, on 04 July 2016 - 07:59 PM, said:

So yeah, that had kept me invested. Hoping HBS can re-invest me. Though I'll be honest, their Dev casts haven't really done anything for me. How the game does more.

Do you get the kickstarter emails they send out? I like the lore they are working on, it really feels Battletech-esque

[Gladius Vittoris]

Johnny Z, on 04 July 2016 - 08:02 PM, said:

Lvl grinds are trash. Lvl based power in games are trash. MechWarrior Online took the only good thing about an "EXP" bar and that's using it to quantify a players actual "EXP". Awsome.

Any other complaints you have would not be improved at all by any changes to the current best of any online game match maker.

Like I said before, the situation will only improve with time, as the game becomes more feature complete, with more player numbers.

The rest of your insults make me giggle because all I see is someone who doesn't like things being done properly.

You are in an island.
The same island where pgi Ceo and fan boys are.

Tweeter Island?

[DAYLEET]

Wintersdark, on 04 July 2016 - 07:33 PM, said:

Yup. No matter what the rest of the game was, that would totally ruin it for me. No amount of awesome side stuff would make up for stupid respawn PvP, not for me.

How do you deal with the respawn in CW?

[Kasumi Sumika]

Bishop Steiner, on 04 July 2016 - 01:34 PM, said:

I've been here since late May, 2012.

For all it's bugs, enjoyed the heck out of Closed Beta.
Soldiered through the Hell of 2013.
Persevered through a year and a half of Poptardery.
The Clan Invasion.

Etc.

But about a year ago, an odd thing happened.... I stopped wanting to log on.

What I notice... is I play 4-5 matches... then log off in disgust. But I can't quite put my finger on the issue.

Is it only one, or a mix?

I PUG for the most part so can't really comment on Group or FW play. But in QP a few things I notice, that IDK..were probably there before...but seem more pronounced now.

1) Epic Player Stupidity. I can't prove it, but it feels like the average player IQ has dropped by at least 50 pts. MM has always served up streaks of bad matches. But every drop feels like I'm surrounded by morons, now. Simple concepts like "shoot the enemy UAV" just elude people.

2) TTK. This has been an on again/off again battle... even in Open Beta, people would complain about Medium Mechs getting instagibbed. Well, it is massively worse now than ever.

3) Stagnant boring game modes and mechanics. Zero immersion.

IDK.. I could go on and on... but I really don't want to. I want a reason to play this game. But... I can't. Just logged on for 5 matches.... and same stupidity when I ran 4 matches last week.

Yea, so much this.

Currently this game is a chore to play right now. QP Queue now taking too longer. About 3-5 Minutes to wait and often over about 8 Minutes. But even I'm patiently wait that long And now I lately got streaks of Bad Games. Not only I have to deal with Bad Players who doing stoopid things, But also Bad Mouthed Players that always insulting each other. It's really not fun and tiresome.

Maybe I just take a break from MW:O and play another games then comeback when there's new event going on.

[kapusta11]

Not fun? Go play tanks then.

On a serious note, here is your problem:

Bishop Steiner, on 04 July 2016 - 01:34 PM, said:

I PUG for the most part

[Kubernetes]

Wintersdark, on 04 July 2016 - 07:27 PM, said:

The problem with respawn is that while death has consequences, it has consequences for the team, not the dying player. This leads to an even worse player psychology than we have - cowardice is understandable, believable. Gross over recklessness and serving may lead to loss, but it's also stupid.

People SHOULD fear dying; it makes the hard choice, the brave choice, the right choice.

I fear premature death way more in an FW match than in QP. If you die in QP, no biggie, spectate or go to the next match. If you die too quickly in FW, it can have consequences that cascade further down the line. Accordingly, much tougher choices have to be made. 'We beat back a wave but my armor is red and ammo is low. Should I push out now so I don't die in base and hamstring my team then? But if I push out and they attack the other gate I'll have to eject. Should I just eject now?' I suppose I don't fear dying in FW so much as I fear dying badly, at the wrong time or in the wrong place. The game still goes on and dying badly can have consequences for myself and my team. QP? Meh, go to the next match.

We could have a long discussion about this, and maybe this isn't the right place for it, but I think that most players in MWO actually fear dying too much. It chokes any aggression out of them and they don't take the shots they should take or search out positions that permit good shots. When I get in a tanky assault for instance, I just accept that I'll probably die when I push, but that's okay because it's a team game and if my sacrifice helps us win it's worth it.

[Novakaine]

LORD ORION, on 04 July 2016 - 09:07 PM, said:

The game was more interesting when we had over the top weapon quirks so good players could do amazing things with their mechs.

Now we have bland and tanky IS mechs, and the game is more like Civil War era battles where you maneuver to stand in a line and trade shots at optimum weapon ranges.

I've taken breaks before, but right now it's different... I feel more like what you have described... play a couple of games and get bored and agitated at the same time.... even when playing with my unit in CW.

I've even recently not bothering to complete tournament goals...

You mean bland tanky Clan mechs also right?

[PyckenZot]

Bishop Steiner, on 04 July 2016 - 01:34 PM, said:

1) Epic Player Stupidity. I can't prove it, but it feels like the average player IQ has dropped by at least 50 pts. MM has always served up streaks of bad matches. But every drop feels like I'm surrounded by morons, now. Simple concepts like "shoot the enemy UAV" just elude people.

Might be your T2 status, I remember back when I had the T2 stats, that I had the same complaint. Incredible displays of stupidity,... or just "I don't care syndrome", who knows, but the result was the same. Immense frustration.

Now I'm not saying this does not happen in T1,... (it does and especially in the weekends) But it happens much less often there.

Bishop Steiner, on 04 July 2016 - 01:34 PM, said:

2) TTK. This has been an on again/off again battle... even in Open Beta, people would complain about Medium Mechs getting instagibbed. Well, it is massively worse now than ever.

TTK is an big question mark for me. One does not have to tell you to not facehug a Kodiak,... so that topic is of the table. And taking this basic tactic into account, I still have days where simply turning a corner seems to melt 50% of my armor for no apparant reason. On other occasions, I can run point for hours and tank incredible amounts of damage. I fear quirk disparity between mechs have made tanking ability feel unnatural.

(that and then of course there is the weapon single pannel convergence,... a thorn in this game's side since conception,...)

Bishop Steiner, on 04 July 2016 - 01:34 PM, said:

3) Stagnant boring game modes and mechanics. Zero immersion.

Disagree when seen in relation to similar games. (enter typical F2P MOS games examples)
Imho mechanics, immersion, game modes and grind level are better in MWO than many others.

Edited by PyckenZot, 04 July 2016 - 11:55 PM.

[B O O M E R]

Bud Crue, on 04 July 2016 - 05:14 PM, said:

Only thing keeping me playing is the fun of playing group QP with my unit mates. Game itself is almost incidental to that.

This x 1000. This is what's keeping the game on life support.

Edited by B O O M E R, 05 July 2016 - 12:30 AM.

[VXJaeger]

To me root of all evil is 8man ->12man change, after that all kind of problems started appearing,
TTK collapsed -> weapon nerfing started, quirks came in, skill of individuals losed meaning to outcome etc.
Also Paul and his brilliant ideas to fix everything that ain't even broken should be nerfed.

[Karl Streiger]

Bud Crue, on 04 July 2016 - 05:14 PM, said:

I have only played for a couple of years. But I feel like P3, PGI's "e-sports" fixation, and then Russ deciding to be insulting to the players really combined to take away about 50% of my enthusiasm for the game.

This so much this.
Rambling of a mad man. This is the 3rd time I did have loose faith. Usually, the trend starts with bollock (two letters? is this coincidence) from Russ (Island) Don't know if I can recover.

OK, Bud you provided the third nail in the coffin with theorizing that CW3 is exactly what was promised. Now you can also say - but if this is the CW3 that was promised than the leaderboard is E-Sport pure.
You can compare with others = Esport. Mission accomplished.
So this means this game is finished it is the final version there wouldn't be any big changes in the future.


You would need a ton of work starting with a month of planing just to point out flaws and provide a path to fix the game.
But this is not going to happen. The best we can hope for are some APIs and licence changes to use the MWO 3D models prior to lego weapons in MWLL -because the Mechs are the only thing (- Lego Weapons) this game has done right.


This is the 3rd time I did have loose faith. Don't know if I can recover.

Johnny Z, on 04 July 2016 - 08:11 PM, said:

Well contrary to the lies told on this forum, you don't go up in PSR unless you perform well. So PSR is not an EXP bar in that way. It does gauge players performance.

Its as good as it gets at this moment and going forward. Its the best matchmaking system possible.

The group queue and match fixing can make a mockery of any matchmaker so that's neither here nor there.

BS at its finest?
You just need to deliver average performance to go up. You really have not to participate to have a negative trend.

Edited by Karl Streiger, 05 July 2016 - 01:07 AM.

[H I A S]

Johnny Z, on 04 July 2016 - 08:11 PM, said:

Well contrary to the lies told on this forum, you don't go up in PSR unless you perform well. So PSR is not an EXP bar in that way. It does gauge players performance.

Its as good as it gets at this moment and going forward. Its the best match making system possible.

The group queue and match fixing can make a mockery of any match maker so that's neither here nor there.

Sry, i have to ask:
are u kidding?

[MrMadguy]

Same here.

And I personally see 3 reasons for this:

1) MM. PSR is too W/L biased and has nothing to do with real skill. I can't log into game currently, so I can't tell you my real stats, but you can. Log in and find me on ladderboard, if you want. As I remember, my stats are: W/L = 1, K/D = 0.5, average match score = 150. See? My stats are well below average, while W/L = 1. What does it mean? It means, that there is always a player in my team, who have stats above average - i.e. K/D = 2 and average match score = 300 for example. So what? It means PSR mixes players with low and high skill in one team. And this is completely wrong. This means, I'm just punching bag for more skilled players. And this is against purpose of matchmaker and makes in completely pointless.
2) Map/Mode design. Map/Mode design is extremely biased towards long range Meta. If you don't have Gauss and ER-LLs - you may go home. This kills all interest and customization in this game. Best example - recent changes to Frozen City map. One of the best maps in a game is completely ruined via making big open crater at it's center, so this map is turned into snipe fest too. There almost no maps left in this game, that aren't snipe fests. So now this is SnipeWarrior Online. Domination - is purely snipe-fest mode. So. Most maps and modes are very snipe-biased and you don't even have an option to avoid them, cuz they're literally forced on you.
3) Inverted balance. Assaults are supposed to be the best brawlers and tanks. They are actually designed this way - they have low wide hardpoints, that make using cover almost impossible. But... In MWO they are most fragile 'Mechs, that can be literally one-shot. And Lights, that are supposed to be scouts and cappers - are almost invulnerable and are the best brawlers in this game. And problem isn't with survivability only. Firepower - is nonsense too. Laser boat Medium Hunchback-IIC has the same firepower, as my Heavy Firebrand, while also having 600m range. How can it be? In order to have better firepower, you should sacrifice something other - range, speed, armour, heat effectiveness, size, survivability, etc. Simple rule: if you have many hardpoints and high firepower - you have to be big and slow, cuz weapons have fixed weight and density, i.e. volume. You can't be tiny, have 170kph speed and at the same time - have 8 hardpoints. it's nonsense. But it isn't the case in MWO. Lights and Mediums can freely equip best weapons in this game without sacrificing anything else = being completely OP.

As the result = completely unplayable game, where 2 AFK players =/= loss, cuz teams are completely unbalanced, where invulnerable Arctic Cheater can easily kill your Heavy 'Mech 1 vs 1, where Mediums, like Stormcrow and Nova, can have enough firepower to two-shot your Atlas and where everybody and their grannies can drill you from 600-800m, while you will never get close enough to them to be able to do any damage.

Edited by MrMadguy, 05 July 2016 - 01:58 AM.

[Templar Dane]

Have a look at this beauty of a match.

Enemy team has 6x 100 ton mechs. Our heaviest mech was an orion at 75 tons.

If I remember right that's 905 tons vs 630.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

Please PGI sell the Licence to Gaijin, with War Thunder and Star Conflict ,this Guys let seeing the can make good F2P Games with Ambient and Fun...PVe, CooOp, many Missiontypes, Grindingmissions against Ki, Campaigns, Battles ,Sectorwar, historic Missions...Star conflict with a own open World in Freelance Style

Now , has HAWKEN more, Soul, love and Ambient as MWO >*

Edited by Old MW4 Ranger, 06 July 2016 - 02:14 AM.

[Wintersdark]

DAYLEET, on 04 July 2016 - 10:40 PM, said:

How do you deal with the respawn in CW?

We don't have respawn in FW. Allow me to explain.

If you read WHY I don't like respawn in my posts above, it boils down to moving the cost of death, the burden of death, from the player dying to the team. You consume team resources in respawning; you cause the teams offensive to slow. But theres no real cost to the player, the cost is to the team.

In FW, you have 4 mechs instead of 1. But it's still just YOUR mechs. You dying costs YOU. It costs your team, too, but it costs you directly.

It's the allocation of responsibility that matters, much more than the fluff. And it does so both ways -

I'd hate FW if we just had 36 respawns per team, because then if I where playing carefully but billybob next to me didn't GAF, he could Rambo and just burn team (and thus my portion thereof) respawns.

From a game design standpoint, that's a good thing -if FW worked that way, it may even work better, as you'd avoid situations where you could have players permadead early - teams would basically remain at 100% until the last.

However, I just outright despise playing PvP games of any sort that way. I need that fear of death to get past the "This is stupid and gamey feeling" that I always get with respawn PvP games.

See:

Kubernetes, on 04 July 2016 - 11:19 PM, said:

I fear premature death way more in an FW match than in QP. If you die in QP, no biggie, spectate or go to the next match. If you die too quickly in FW, it can have consequences that cascade further down the line. Accordingly, much tougher choices have to be made. 'We beat back a wave but my armor is red and ammo is low. Should I push out now so I don't die in base and hamstring my team then? But if I push out and they attack the other gate I'll have to eject. Should I just eject now?' I suppose I don't fear dying in FW so much as I fear dying badly, at the wrong time or in the wrong place. The game still goes on and dying badly can have consequences for myself and my team. QP? Meh, go to the next match.

[Reza Malin]

Hillslam, on 04 July 2016 - 06:59 PM, said:

For me I moved on when the endless monotony of team deathmatch ad nauseum got too repetitively boring.

Moved over to ... wait for it... other team deathmatch games. World of Tank. World of Warships. WarThunder. Overwatch. Battlefield 1. Etc Etc Etc Etc.

Realized "well s**t, I'm really bored of all of them". (PS - don't get me started on the full r3t@rd that is "eSports")

There needs to be more to do in these games now. They're all blurring together. My money and time has dried up for them anymore.


I'll return when there's PvE and missions worth doing.

I have found similar realisations in myself.

I have turned back to a lot more single player games recently.

Warhammer: Total War, Mordheim, Fallout 4, Witcher 3 etc etc. Lots to do.

If i fancy some PVP i just hop back on this for a few games.

I do still enjoy it, but i just accept now that without being in some paramilitary wannabe unit, with mandatory "training" etc etc yawn, it is what it is. A shooter with robots, that have cool functions/controls, but still essentially TDM.

I think i spend more time playing with my builds than actually using them now, ha ha.

EDIT: I also predict, battlefield 1 will be more of the same. Fresh setting, same old gameplay.

"oooh giant airships"......"ohhhhh old guns"....."oohhhh melee weapons".

Airships = BF4 gunship. Done before, temporarily fun but deeply flawed feature.

Guns = laughable. Some of those guns are quite literally ridiculous. After a couple of days, there will be one generic assault rifle type weapon build that everyone will use, that will look like a offshoot from BF4. Same for SMG and Sniper. Other 99% of weapons will be forgotten.

Melee = Been done, in many variations, just no specific melee weapon slots. Really, what does this add to the game over previous attempts? Hype.

Hype = preorders.

Really? Who really thinks its going to be any different than the previous battlefield/battlefront type games?

Dont get me wrong i used to love battlefield, and had more fun on BFBC2 and BF3 than i can even remember. BF 4 was an abortion at launch, and took around a year to become enjoyably playable. They got all CoD on us. Churn churn churn. Same old dog toffee, but with hype creating bells and whistles.

Release aesthetically tacticool media heavy video to generate excitement. Show people playing a rigged multiplayer set up with famous people, when in fact the first time you play/see any game it looks cool.

I just don't see what its going to do to make me play it more than i played Battlefront, which also had the same amount of hype. I played battlefront for approximately 1 week and uninstalled it. Once i was over my star wars nostalgia, i realised it was just 4 big maps and not much variation in gameplay.

EDIT2: If anyone is looking for a fresh and interesting game, and likes warhammer, check out Mordheim. Its unforgiving. but really enjoyable if you like thinking.

Edited by Fade Akira, 05 July 2016 - 04:39 AM.