319 replies to this topic

[cazidin]

So. What builds will we put on the Linebacker?

[TELEFORCE]

I think it's the Linebacker. It bears similarities in profile to this:

[Bishop Steiner]

TELEFORCE, on 06 July 2016 - 04:03 PM, said:

I think it's the Linebacker. It bears similarities in profile to this:

Crazy talk

[Gas Guzzler]

ScarecrowES, on 06 July 2016 - 03:51 PM, said:

So... suffice it to say I'm excited. I know a lot of people aren't, but I'm looking forward to some time in a Linebacker cockpit.

And really, there's a lot to be happy about. It's not a bad mech, despite what many claim, and might just work well for how MWO plays.

First, given it's shape - with a long, dense, deep torso - the thing is practically guaranteed to be around the current size of the Catapult. Perhaps even a little shorter, given that its height will not be inflated by the arm boxes the Catapult carries.

It sports 17.5 tons of free tonnage at nearly max armor. That's not a lot for a 65-tonner, admittedly, but it also carries 4 locked DHS in the engine, giving it a stock 21.5 tons of effective equipment tonnage, or 22 with efficient armor placement. The Stormcrow - which the community readily agrees is a top-tier mech - has 23 tons of effective equipment tonnage.

The Linebacker runs as fast as the Stormcrow, with the additional armor and structure a 10-ton heavier mech carries, and has a much smaller frontal profile.

The Linebacker's arms are mounted lower - as is the case with most mechs - but base art has the torso mounts high on the body, often on top of the mech. And the Linebacker carries most of it's weapons in the side torsos, so most weapons should be high mounts. And speaking of hardpoints, these are the stock hardpoints for TT variants:

Good selection of hardpoints. Can do missiles, ballistic, or energy... or any combination of those. Open head and CT slots for equipment or sinks. Included a max energy weapon list for those that want to know the vomit potential.

Admittedly, amongst Clan mechs, it has a lot of really good competition at 65 tons. But it's definitely a unique option. Fast, small, and reasonably well-armed. I have no doubt it will find its niche.

ASSUMING GHOST HEAT 2.0 goes through, this thing won't be able to vomit anything. Previously 6 ERMLs would have been an acceptable but hot build for it, but at 42 damage, that greatly exceeds Russ's first guess at alpha limit of 30 damage, so meh.

And at 16-17 tons of podspace, you can bring like 2 UAC5s, or 1 UAC10 and 2 ER MLs, or 1 UAC20, or 1 Gauss Rifle, so I'm not really holding my breathe for this POS.

[McMurl]

Im 99% sure its the linebacker. The black python has only 2 variants that can be used due to the third using heavy lasers. Unless PGI decides to create variants (which would be very difficult, considering that its an omnimech) the linebacker is the only feasible option.

Linebacker might be DOA due to its severe lack of podspace (a maximum of 16 tons with stripping some armor) and lack of hardpoints, but it has the speed to chase down some IS mediums. it will also be alright for group ambushes, although their are much better options. the linebacker would probably play as a sniper or medium range support. It will play similarily to the summoner, although without jump jets (the H variant has jump jets, but that variant has Heavy lasers, so nope) Worst clan heavy possibly, with stormcrows being a more viable option, trading some armor for FAR more firepower.

[Pariah Devalis]

Maybe a 6M 2E delivery system. However I do not see it being a decent ballistics or energy platform.

Edited for timeline appropriate variants.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 06 July 2016 - 04:11 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Pariah Devalis, on 06 July 2016 - 04:09 PM, said:

Maybe a 6M 3E delivery system. However I do not see it being a decent ballistics or energy platform.

Depends greatly on how Ghost Heat 2.0 treats SRMs.

[Pariah Devalis]

Gas Guzzler, on 06 July 2016 - 04:11 PM, said:

Depends greatly on how Ghost Heat 2.0 treats SRMs.

Meh. Two groups and call it a day. Does anyone here honestly think barely crossing the threshold will result in catastrophic heat generation, anyways?

[ScarecrowES]

Gas Guzzler, on 06 July 2016 - 04:05 PM, said:

ASSUMING GHOST HEAT 2.0 goes through, this thing won't be able to vomit anything. Previously 6 ERMLs would have been an acceptable but hot build for it, but at 42 damage, that greatly exceeds Russ's first guess at alpha limit of 30 damage, so meh.

And at 16-17 tons of podspace, you can bring like 2 UAC5s, or 1 UAC10 and 2 ER MLs, or 1 UAC20, or 1 Gauss Rifle, so I'm not really holding my breathe for this POS.

17.5 free tonnage is with nearly max armor. I can't imagine you'll want to add MORE than what it comes stock with, but it's not a big drop to max the armor.

I figure if we're going to be limited to 30 points of simultaneous damage output, that actually BENEFITS mechs with a bit of extra engine and a bit less on the weapons. I imagine mechs that end up with more weapons than they can actually use might find themselves wanting to trade some of those guns for something they can use, eh?

[Gas Guzzler]

Pariah Devalis, on 06 July 2016 - 04:12 PM, said:

Meh. Two groups and call it a day. Does anyone here honestly think barely crossing the threshold will result in catastrophic heat generation, anyways?

Most of the time you don't ever want bonus heat... mechs in a brawl are hot enough already!

[Pariah Devalis]

Gas Guzzler, on 06 July 2016 - 04:13 PM, said:

Most of the time you don't ever want bonus heat... mechs in a brawl are hot enough already!

Most mechs of that weight can't get in and out that quickly and easily, though. I don't think the mech will be great, but I can easily see it filling a very specific niche of a heavy striker. 2 flamers, 6xASRM4. Dump and pump.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 06 July 2016 - 04:15 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

ScarecrowES, on 06 July 2016 - 04:12 PM, said:

17.5 free tonnage is with nearly max armor. I can't imagine you'll want to add MORE than what it comes stock with, but it's not a big drop to max the armor.

I figure if we're going to be limited to 30 points of simultaneous damage output, that actually BENEFITS mechs with a bit of extra engine and a bit less on the weapons. I imagine mechs that end up with more weapons than they can actually use might find themselves wanting to trade some of those guns for something they can use, eh?

If you think being limited to a 4 cERML OR 2 cLPL alpha is good for this mech, then by all means... have fun.

Pariah Devalis, on 06 July 2016 - 04:15 PM, said:

Most mechs of that weight can't get in and out that quickly and easily, though. I don't think the mech will be great, but I can easily see it filling a very specific niche of a heavy striker. 2 flamers, 6xASRM4. Dump and pump.

We'll see I guess, not sure if it will have enough DHS with that loadout.

ScarecrowES, on 06 July 2016 - 04:12 PM, said:

I figure if we're going to be limited to 30 points of simultaneous damage output, that actually BENEFITS mechs with a bit of extra engine and a bit less on the weapons. I imagine mechs that end up with more weapons than they can actually use might find themselves wanting to trade some of those guns for something they can use, eh?

And really it doesn't, because low podspace mechs are limited to lasers or SRMs to do their damage, and since those weapons are not "damage efficient" like the heavier PPFLD or dakka DPS, that is a hindrance.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 06 July 2016 - 04:16 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

cazidin, on 06 July 2016 - 04:03 PM, said:

So. What builds will we put on the Linebacker?

None. Cuz I won't be getting it.

[Imperius]

Trauglodyte, on 06 July 2016 - 04:00 PM, said:

Mech packs are good for the business. It pays the developers that will hopefully, SOON, give us the game that we want. In the mean time, it gives the players more goodies that they want. You might now want it but that doesn't mean that someone won't.

I know that very well, that's why I started having to speak with my wallet and join the others. I was different, I did provide constant support only wanted game improvements for the most part. After playing the same mech since I got it (basically the substitute for the mech I always wanted) I finally just grew tired of it. <Stuff happened> now I'm a bittervet with a closed wallet and I finally stopped all my Mechwarrior notifications I had set up.

I blow lots of money on games and entertainment as long as I'm entertained.

I never asked for CW I always said it would fail.
I definitely never asked for a Tournament. That should haven been a given on failing.

The only thing I asked for that may not have been super helpful to PGI's bottom line is an Engine update. As for PVE that I always pushed for well that's just a gold mine for revenue, but hey I'm just a armchair developer played games for about 26 years now I guess I still don't know when a game is not fun for me after all our feedback isn't needed and another developer would have just given us Mechassault. I laugh every time I hear that because one of PGI's top supporters "which was me" came into Battletech because of MechAssault and I loved that game.

Edited by Imperius, 06 July 2016 - 04:22 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

grievoussmaug, on 06 July 2016 - 04:06 PM, said:

Im 99% sure its the linebacker. The black python has only 2 variants that can be used due to the third using heavy lasers. Unless PGI decides to create variants (which would be very difficult, considering that its an omnimech) the linebacker is the only feasible option.

Linebacker might be DOA due to its severe lack of podspace (a maximum of 16 tons with stripping some armor) and lack of hardpoints, but it has the speed to chase down some IS mediums. it will also be alright for group ambushes, although their are much better options. the linebacker would probably play as a sniper or medium range support. It will play similarily to the summoner, although without jump jets (the H variant has jump jets, but that variant has Heavy lasers, so nope) Worst clan heavy possibly, with stormcrows being a more viable option, trading some armor for FAR more firepower.

They've already made up both battlemech and omnimech already

And the Python is a battlemech, not an omni

[ScarecrowES]

Gas Guzzler, on 06 July 2016 - 04:15 PM, said:

If you think being limited to a 4 cERML OR 2 cLPL alpha is good for this mech, then by all means... have fun.

It puts a limit on all mechs equally, yeah? Say we're talking the Linebacker vs the Ebon Jag. Both limited to firing 4 ERMLs. That puts an artificial check on your output in both mechs. You're going to be forced to cycle through weapons at a specific rate. What good is it for the Ebon Jag to mount more weapons than the Linebacker, for instance if it's limited to cycling through the same number of weapons at the same rate than the Linebacker? You're going to get to a point where having more weapons does you no good, because you're not going to be able to fire them at any higher rate than a mech that mounts fewer.

Of course, the Linebacker trades guns for speed, so it actually might make out on that trade if damage output is limited. Well, I think perhaps it already makes out on that deal... who knows. But limiting damage, I think, benefits mechs that are limited already.

[Pariah Devalis]

Gas Guzzler, on 06 July 2016 - 04:18 PM, said:

We'll see I guess, not sure if it will have enough DHS with that loadout.

10.5 tons of 11 tons of armor, and 14 DHS.



Via: http://keikun17.github.io/mwo-viewer/

Can almost, and by almost I mean within 2% or so, fire all 6 ASRM4 three times in a row, back to back. Of course, with the new power draw, who knows how it will compare to current ghost heat. If it's a problem, just fire salvos of 4+2.

Sadly, that's about the only configuration on the mech that I can see worthwhile. Low weight to damage ratio C-SRM launchers. Might find a role in base rushing decks. Maybe. It's about 10 tons too heavy to actually be in an environment that makes sense for the chassis as a whole (scouting mode). Even then, what happens when a Splatbacker crosses paths with a Spluntsman?

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 06 July 2016 - 04:27 PM.

[Trauglodyte]

It could still be the Black Python

Imperius, on 06 July 2016 - 04:19 PM, said:

I know that very well, that's why I started having to speak with my wallet and join the others. I was different, I did provide constant support only wanted game improvements for the most part. After playing the same mech since I got it (basically the substitute for the mech I always wanted) I finally just grew tired of it. <Stuff happened> now I'm a bittervet with a closed wallet and I finally stopped all my Mechwarrior notifications I had set up.

I blow lots of money on games and entertainment as long as I'm entertained.

I never asked for CW I always said it would fail.
I definitely never asked for a Tournament. That should haven been a given on failing.

The only thing I asked for that may not have been super helpful to PGI's bottom line is an Engine update. As for PVE that I always pushed for well that's just a gold mine for revenue, but hey I'm just a armchair developer played games for about 26 years now I guess I still don't know when a game is not fun for me after all our feedback isn't needed and another developer would have just given us Mechassault. I laugh every time I hear that because one of PGI's top supporters "which was me" came into Battletech because of MechAssault and I loved that game.

I won't deny any of that. Everyone has their limits to what they're willing to accept. I don't play much any more because I can only get myself to play the solo pug so much without wanting to find all of the bad players that cost me a win, beat them silly, kill their children, and sterilize them so that they don't continue to plague the world with more bads. But, we can't do that kind of thing can we? Again, you find joy in the small things in life. For me, getting to play this game at all is a small win. That it isn't the game that I want, yet, is a failing on the fault of PGI. We also don't know that game will show up later. Until then, I'll toy around with it and have my small doses of fun. It's what we can do.

Edited by Trauglodyte, 06 July 2016 - 04:36 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

ScarecrowES, on 06 July 2016 - 04:22 PM, said:

It puts a limit on all mechs equally, yeah? Say we're talking the Linebacker vs the Ebon Jag. Both limited to firing 4 ERMLs. That puts an artificial check on your output in both mechs. You're going to be forced to cycle through weapons at a specific rate. What good is it for the Ebon Jag to mount more weapons than the Linebacker, for instance if it's limited to cycling through the same number of weapons at the same rate than the Linebacker? You're going to get to a point where having more weapons does you no good, because you're not going to be able to fire them at any higher rate than a mech that mounts fewer.

Of course, the Linebacker trades guns for speed, so it actually might make out on that trade if damage output is limited. Well, I think perhaps it already makes out on that deal... who knows. But limiting damage, I think, benefits mechs that are limited already.

Because the Ebon will take Dual Gauss or 3 UAC5s or 2 UAC10s instead of 4 ER MLs. Can the Linebacker take Dual Gauss or any of those options?

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 06 July 2016 - 04:32 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Trauglodyte, on 06 July 2016 - 04:31 PM, said:

It could still be the Black Python

Beat you to the punch on that....