LocationStill doing ungodly amount of damage, but with more accuracy.
Posted 13 July 2016 - 04:07 AM
L3mming2, on 13 July 2016 - 04:00 AM, said:
so the locust is OP cos it enables you to bring more heavy OP mechs?
if the heavy class was not that much better then the meds ore lights this would not be a isue in the first place..
There is no way for Lights to become as powerful as Heavies without breaking this game. I hope all of you should get it through your minds. The lack of role warfare is PGI's fault, where lighter weight classes could shine.
Lily from animove, on 13 July 2016 - 03:28 AM, said:
i killed so many locsust, and cannot remember if one killed me since the patch. So no idea how to not kill it.
Be impatient and take a lot of bad shots. miss and overheat and get head shot by a lolcust?
El Bandito, on 13 July 2016 - 04:07 AM, said:
There is no way for Lights to become as powerful as Heavies without breaking this game. I hope all of you should get it through your minds. The lack of role warfare is PGI's fault, where lighter weight classes could shine.
Lights don't need power, a good light jock just need patience, positioning, situational awareness, and a damn good sense of timing.
Edited by Narcissistic Martyr, 13 July 2016 - 04:10 AM.
There is no way for Lights to become as powerful as Heavies without breaking this game. I hope all of you should get it through your minds. The lack of role warfare is PGI's fault, where lighter weight classes could shine.
your logic dictates that assaults should be better then heavys yet heavys are way more popular then assaults.. role warfare is not going to happen anny time soon (if it ever happens) "I hope all of you should get it through your minds" so saying lights should only be usefull for that is the same as saying they sould not be usefull at all...
LocationStill doing ungodly amount of damage, but with more accuracy.
Posted 13 July 2016 - 04:29 AM
L3mming2, on 13 July 2016 - 04:28 AM, said:
your logic dictates that assaults should be better then heavys yet heavys are way more popular then assaults.. role warfare is not going to happen anny time soon (if it ever happens) "I hope all of you should get it through your minds" so saying lights should only be usefull for that is the same as saying they sould not be usefull at all...
Yet they are used. Locust is just a tad over the line for a 20 ton mech, for GQ and FW. That is all. All.
I can't change people's preference to the class that is the most forgiving, which is the Heavy class. Assaults can kick the can out of Heavies in a 1v1 situation, it's just their slow speed and big frame are detriments to a lot of mediocre puggers.
We had the same discussion when the raven was nearly unhitable, then the Centurion, the Spider and the Arctic. It's always the same story. Most people hit them but it does not count proper because PGI often needs a second attempt to make things right.
When a Locust with Small Puls Laser weapons is able to run between 6 mediums and heavies for 2 minutes and is not loosing a leg, a torso it might not the "skill" of all others. It might be the bad hit registry on the Locust.
Another good indicator is the more you see a certain Mech in single public queue played by top players, the more it is unbalanced towards the rest. That's why they play it.
The thing needs to lose any and all acceleration quirks it has. Nothing that dam small should accelerate that quickly. I cant even aim fast enough to get lasers on it before its back into cover and poking out somewhere else 3 miles away. Sorry, your Lagshield crutch needs to go the way of the firestarter, I.E. Not be broken.
Still trying (waiting) to understand why the Locust...the Locust of all mechs, a mech that is certainly hard to hit and an annoyance, but still a Locust...is purported to be nerfed over something like the Kodiak-3, which is probably the most commonly complained about "OP" mech, closely followed by Stormcrows in a scout match. I just don't get it.
We had the same discussion when the raven was nearly unhitable, then the Centurion, the Spider and the Arctic. It's always the same story. Most people hit them but it does not count proper because PGI often needs a second attempt to make things right.
When a Locust with Small Puls Laser weapons is able to run between 6 mediums and heavies for 2 minutes and is not loosing a leg, a torso it might not the "skill" of all others. It might be the bad hit registry on the Locust.
Another good indicator is the more you see a certain Mech in single public queue played by top players, the more it is unbalanced towards the rest. That's why they play it.
well there were true times where hitreg was broken and ravens did not took damage, which was also backed up by proper video evidence. So there is clearly sometimes something broken. and I have yet not seen such 2 minute locusts because they all died before that happened. So I don'T see a general hitreg issue as we did had them in the past.
still hitreg issues are not a subject to call for nerfs, they should always be a subject of fixing hitreg.
LocationStill doing ungodly amount of damage, but with more accuracy.
Posted 13 July 2016 - 06:07 AM
Bud Crue, on 13 July 2016 - 05:56 AM, said:
Still trying (waiting) to understand why the Locust...the Locust of all mechs, a mech that is certainly hard to hit and an annoyance, but still a Locust...is purported to be nerfed over something like the Kodiak-3, which is probably the most commonly complained about "OP" mech, closely followed by Stormcrows in a scout match. I just don't get it.
KDK-3 will get its nerfs. PGI won't do it now cause it is still available cash only. Scrows in Scouting is easily circumvented by 4 Locust drops or any good IS Mediums.
Here's how I imagine the dialogue at the PGI office.
Employee 1: Well, the rescale is done. It turns out, we've effectively nerfed every light mech except the ACH. The Locust is a little better.
Employee 2: So the Locust is too good?
Employee 1: No, no, it's still not as good as the best mediums, heavies and assaults. It's just better than other light mechs, because all the other ones are terrible now.
Employee 2: So it's overpowered?
Employee 1: No, it just appears good. By process of elimination. Because you nerfed all the other mechs. It's fine, it's not a problem.
Employee 2: So... we should nerf the Locust.
Employee 1: What!? No! Meh, whatever, I'm going to lunch.
Unfortunately some of the buffs/nerfs that PGI implements are intended to deal with imbalances related to the engine and underlying game play rather than the mech itself.
The locust is small, fast and accelerates quickly. This makes it harder to hit if you can't aim and a bit more challenging to hit if you can.
However, the real issue may be underlying hit registration. We have no way to tell unfortunately, but ongoing complaints about hit registration have been a staple comment about MWO for years.Each iteration of the code and the implementation of HSR has improved the situation immensely but the impression is that it is still not good enough in some situations. This may be the problem with the locust, with its small size, fast speed and quick acceleration ... it could be breaking the hit registration algorithm (sometimes) since everything is calculated server side. The image you see on your client is only an approximation of the battlefield based on data received from the server and the opposing client that could be out of date by up to 500ms or more depending on ping and packet loss.
MWO is server authoritative. The server decides where your opponent is and this is NOT necessarily where it is being drawn on your client. If a locust is running fast, turning often (jinking), and even speeding up and slowing down a bit ... this all happens on scale times on the order of 50 to 500ms. (Note that for assaults and even the heavier lights the time scales are longer). This is where the issue of hit registration in a server authoritative system enters the picture ... if the opposing client is making speed and direction changes every 100 to 250ms and the ping to the server is 50ms while the ping to the other client is 150ms ... then the server will have position updates from the target client that have not been sent to the firing client. Or perhaps, the server will have sent the updates to the firing client but they will not have actually been rendered on the firing client yet. If the lag is 150ms that means the server thinks it has sent the firing client the update but the firing client has not drawn it yet so when the client records fire it is aimed at the wrong place.
A 150ms lag for a target moving 50kph is 2 meters. For a large mech that doesn't turn quickly this means that the mech will probably be more or less where you aim but instead of hitting the CT you might hit the side torso or arm.
On the other hand, at 165kph, the mech travels almost 7m in 150ms. Add to this the fact that it turns quickly so that 7m could be within almost +/-90 degrees of its initial path AND the fact that the mech is probably only about 3m(?) tall. So, a locust that makes a quick turn could be a couple of mech heights in almost any direction from its initial path BEFORE the positional update from the server reaches the client. HSR is supposed to address some of these issues ... but if the server includes the update that had not reached the client in the calculations then the odds are good that the HSR will report a miss despite the fact that the revised position of the locust never displayed on the client. Hopefully there are additional measures to address this ... but the issues get worse the faster and more maneuverable the mech.
Unfortunately, rather than fix or try to improve HSR and hit registration which is a more difficult and time consuming problem ... the easy fix is to nerf the locust. This won't fix the problem entirely since the locust is only harder to hit when there is more lag (assuming this theory is remotely close) ... changes to the locust will make it DOA for low lag cases and average or a little harder to hit for high lag cases ... so it averages out to where they would like to see it.
Also, this theory can explain why some folks have no real trouble with locusts (I don't usually) while others can't seem to hit them with anything.
P.S. I also am suspicious of leg hit registration since it is unlikely that the legs will be drawn in the correct location on the client compared to the server and for a locust those legs are moving a lot faster (and are a lot smaller) than an atlas or dire whale.
I'm trying to understand where the need...or in this case: irrational motivation...may have originated from to nerf the Locust.
Can someone point me in the direction of all the threads (any) where all this "Locust is OP" qq-ing is at? I found one thread (all hail our new locust overlords) which was started right before the rescale dropped, but it was mostly tongue-in-cheek, and there is nothing there since June 22nd. Any others?
Locusts used to be so few and far between. A few of us would man handle a couple of people in drops with the 20 ton monsters, but for the most part, Locusts were just there to die if they ever showed their faces at all. So people got used to never having to deal with them. Then, with the rescale, people thought to try them out. Suddenly, there are Locusts in almost every match, and some of them piloted by good players. Now, Locusts are getting 2 or 3 kills in a match, which is a far cry from where they used to be. So, now, there is a noticeable difference - Locusts seem too good because they are doing much better than before (despite before being bottom of the bargain bin levels of performance). To the average player, now this requires a nerf to return to the status quo, because no 20 ton mech should ever challenge a Timby.
Well, to all that I say, "meh..."
I played the Locust before quirks, I crushed people with it after quirks. I stopped playing it about 6 months ago just because they decided to make it more tanky and less mobile (make it more like every other light). So now, they'll again do the same - make every mech roughly the same, so that the same tactics and builds will work across the board, and nobody will ever have to think about what they are doing. We apparently want a game where we just mash buttons in point'n'click style Hello Kitty Island Adventure, but without the immersion.
To make my point clear: The Locust has ALWAYS been deadly, and the current levels of performance are in line with previous levels - it's just that more people are playing them now.
BEFORE THE RESIZE:
Where were the streams of player tears then?
Fine...make the Locust crappy. See if I care. Maybe I'll start playing it again to reintroduce myself to the hard mode that everyone wants to avoid like the plague (<-- hah, get it?).
KDK-3 will get its nerfs. PGI won't do it now cause it is still available cash only. Scrows in Scouting is easily circumvented by 4 Locust drops or any good IS Mediums.
If the presumption (see above posts) is that the Locust is being nerfed (supposedly nerfed...Russ tweet only said "changed") because of all the tears and qq-ing (which I am unable to actually find much of), then shouldn't mechs which have dozens of threads, near tomes of posts, about how OP they are, be the ones to get nerfed?
If the presumption (see above posts) is that the Locust is being nerfed (supposedly nerfed...Russ tweet only said "changed") because of all the tears and qq-ing (which I am unable to actually find much of), then shouldn't mechs which have dozens of threads, near tomes of posts, about how OP they are, be the ones to get nerfed?
There is no way for Lights to become as powerful as Heavies without breaking this game. I hope all of you should get it through your minds. The lack of role warfare is PGI's fault, where lighter weight classes could shine.
This is only really true for GQ, where PGI has attempted to use tonnage limits to balance large group vs small. FW would be fine because everyone could bring 4 mechs. If all classes were equal combat capable (but better at different styles of combat), it would be feasible to bring 4 lights, or 4 heavies without a need for tonnage limits.
The problem with not having the mech classes balanced is a bad gameplay experience for those that want to run something other than heavies in QP. It's not uncommon to see the heavy queue hit 40% as is.
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L3mming2, on 13 July 2016 - 04:00 AM, said:
