294 replies to this topic

[dario03]

So the locust is getting nerfed before the Kodiak 3???
Even though the Kodiak is way stronger...
Hopefully they change that. Otherwise I'm just going to say...
Called it.

[Darian DelFord]

The Zohan, on 13 July 2016 - 11:31 PM, said:

Funny that its almost always the same guys with the same old pics and set of “arguments“ that ***** and moan when ppl criticize their crutchmechs. I am not going to do that little dance with you, just so you know. I'll just grin gently when the patchnotes are released and tip my hat your general direction while you kiddos will most likely run rampant in the forums

Pictures are worth a thousand words.

adamts01, on 13 July 2016 - 11:37 PM, said:

Did you seriously just call the Locust a "crutchmech"? LOL, now I've seen everything.

Aye, tells you how many people actually pilot one consistently

The Zohan, on 14 July 2016 - 12:08 AM, said:

Yep, but for different reasons as i.e. the Jenny Oxide. I dont feel like repeating the reasons over and over again though, its very detailed pointed out by different other players in this and various other threads.
I.e. read the quote right above my post.

If you think any Jenner is a crutch mech then you seriously need to play lights for a while.

[bukidog]

the irrational fear that leads to nerfing lights

[Sorbic]

Nooo I've been wanting to try them again but fast lights and my PC don't currently mix. I finally ordered a new MOBO/CPU but it's not here yet. I've missed my Locusts and was looking forward to it being viable but now they will prob overdo the nerf.

[Sigilum Sanctum]

The Zohan, on 13 July 2016 - 11:31 PM, said:

Funny that its almost always the same guys with the same old pics and set of “arguments“ that ***** and moan when ppl criticize their crutchmechs. I am not going to do that little dance with you, just so you know. I'll just grin gently when the patchnotes are released and tip my hat your general direction while you kiddos will most likely run rampant in the forums

I dont think you actually know what a crutch mech is.

The Kodiak 3 is very good but I hesitate to even call it a crutch mech, I've seen too many ****** pilots to know that.

But you seriously think the Locust, a 20 ton suicide sled, is a crutch mech?

Have you even piloted the damn thing for more than 5 minutes?

Edited by Sigilum Sanctum, 14 July 2016 - 06:48 AM.

[AnarchyBurger]

That's pretty dumb cause they remain a 1 shot often times with an alpha... But whatever, gunna PGI it!

[BaconTWOfourACTUAL]

*crosses fingers*
Here's to hoping that all they do is add 5 tons to it so I can have a bit more armor when flying around the giant stompy stompys.

[MoonUnitBeta]

As long as PGI DOESN’T make it bigger, and alters the quirks instead.

If PGI makes it bigger, then holy cow, what the hell was the point of the entire rescale?! Now we’re starting to go right back to where were before June. The lack of consistency will warrant questions about their methodology.

If they can’t hold their own design choices in-check, then it just opens up room for questions and people lose faith.
So yeah, don’t change the size PGI, for the love of all that’s holy. Please don’t contradict yourself, and just simply alter the locust’s quirks.

Edited by MoonUnitBeta, 14 July 2016 - 07:08 AM.

[Zen Idiot]

when the LCT got popular after the rescale i felt like a hipster whose favorite band just signed a major label deal.

go ahead and nerf it.

[Y E O N N E]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 13 July 2016 - 08:15 PM, said:

First, let's not drag mechs that don't even compete for similar roles, I get that ballistics and missiles were a strong thing, but if we had the BJ-2, I guarantee it would be one of the strongest options right next to the Griffin.

Second, Novas were used almost solely on drop 1, where BJs are arguably the least useful (and even less so after Flamers were made useful). It just never had the sustainability niche that the TBT-5J and 12 ERSL Nova had. Outside of that though, in every drop you saw the HBK-IIC-A laser vomit mech, that would've been a BJ-3 if the HBK-IIC-A wasn't allowed. The BJ-3 is the second best poke medium in the game. The BJ-1X was nerfed too hard once it lost its ridiculous structure quirks and gained no offensive quirks (can we get the pre-rebalance BJ-1X back please), but let's not be hyperbolic about its stature amongst other mediums where many of them are far worse than the BJ-1X.

First, my comments on that matter were intended to be a general sentiment rather than an analysis per role and chassis.

Second, what you say is disingenuous because how competent a medium is in a role versus other mediums is irrelevant when you are better served filling that role with a heavy even under restrictions, which you did. Laser poke/overwatch was very consistently performed by Black Knights or Grasshoppers while mediums were brawlers or brawl nukers unless a very niche service was required on specific maps (i.e. with the IFR or capping on Tourmaline or the SHC being sneaky on Bog or Polar).

Third, the only thing making the HBK-IIC relevant is the range on cLPL and its ability to mount dual Gauss. Even if that 'Mech were absent from the game, the BJ-3 is too hot or undergunned for its weight at every range bracket within which it is competent and would remain shelved. This was true for the entirety of MRBC7, it just wasn't acknowledged right away. The presence of JJs was the only thing that kept this 'Mech in for as long as it was, to the detriment of many who hadn't adopted new strats for different 'Mechs.

The BJ-1X (and the chassis in general) losing some structure was of marginal importance. The complete loss of laser duration and the reduction in laser range and the continual losses in agility have destroyed it's utility in anything outside of a QP or FW drop. Too much compulsory face time compounded by sluggish response and an isXL and having to get too close. No medium has replaced it in this role because no Medium was ever good enough in it before and none have been good enough since.

The Blackjack isn't bad, it's solid. Unfortunately, solid only makes the cut when it is synonymous with exceptional. And that is really all I am trying to say, because it applies to the Locust as it currently stands and because it is an example of a chassis nerfed to the way-side and having none of those changes rolled back...a fate I would really like to avoid for the only 'Mech in the game that gives me real thrills.

The Zohan, on 13 July 2016 - 11:31 PM, said:

Funny that its almost always the same guys with the same old pics and set of “arguments“ that ***** and moan when ppl criticize their crutchmechs. I am not going to do that little dance with you, just so you know. I'll just grin gently when the patchnotes are released and tip my hat your general direction while you kiddos will most likely run rampant in the forums

If being small and hard to hit is a crutch, then surely being able to mount twice the Locust's weight in guns and armor on other 'Mechs is also a crutch, yes?

That's it, guys, nobody is allowed to have more than 4 tons of armor and firepower greater than six Inner Sphere medium lasers!

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 14 July 2016 - 07:39 AM.

[3xnihilo]

I still think most of the complaining comes from the idea that the smallest mech in the game should not be good. Right now the locust does not compete with the top tier or even second tier mechs, but it is better than a lot of the really bad mechs, so it has exceeded its allotted usefulness so it needs nerfed back to bad so it "stays in its place".

[Sigilum Sanctum]

3xnihilo, on 14 July 2016 - 07:29 AM, said:

I still think most of the complaining comes from the idea that the smallest mech in the game should not be good. Right now the locust does not compete with the top tier or even second tier mechs, but it is better than a lot of the really bad mechs, so it has exceeded its allotted usefulness so it needs nerfed back to bad so it "stays in its place".

Correct. The sentiment is very wrong and has no place when discussing what is good for balance.

The only reason people are moaning about the Locust is because other light mechs have become irrelevant.

[Lily from animove]

Sigilum Sanctum, on 14 July 2016 - 07:41 AM, said:

Correct. The sentiment is very wrong and has no place when discussing what is good for balance.

The only reason people are moaning about the Locust is because other light mechs have become irrelevant.

they haven't even, but peopel think this, because as much as the locust is "unhitable" as much "broken" are the other lights now. While in fact most work like before. Just not in the "aimfail" league. where the locust shrink made people miss and the 35t growth made people suddenly hit them. But in the upper leagues they all still get hit as much as before and the light pilots there still can handle them similar well.

these changes now are clearly done to stop the salty T4.

[Littlerift]

3xnihilo, on 14 July 2016 - 07:29 AM, said:

I still think most of the complaining comes from the idea that the smallest mech in the game should not be good. Right now the locust does not compete with the top tier or even second tier mechs, but it is better than a lot of the really bad mechs, so it has exceeded its allotted usefulness so it needs nerfed back to bad so it "stays in its place".

This might be true, most of the pilots in-game who complain about my Pirate's Bane being OP are Atlas pilots with LRMs - they spent their cadet bonus on the biggest, baddest 'mech they could and the fact that it's not fitted out well means that it can be beaten by the a 'mech 5x smaller than it. To such people this seems ridiculously unfair: surely the biggest, heaviest 'mech is the best one, right? He should win by default! The Locust must be OP to beat such a god of war.

[Sigilum Sanctum]

Lily from animove, on 14 July 2016 - 07:54 AM, said:

they haven't even, but peopel think this, because as much as the locust is "unhitable" as much "broken" are the other lights now. While in fact most work like before. Just not in the "aimfail" league. where the locust shrink made people miss and the 35t growth made people suddenly hit them. But in the upper leagues they all still get hit as much as before and the light pilots there still can handle them similar well.

these changes now are clearly done to stop the salty T4.

The only lights that I've seen consistently played are the Arctic Cheetah, because it's size and agility weren't hit. The LPL Ravens because they we're more or less unchanged, and the Oxide because it still has good structure quirks.

Anything and everything else has become irrelevant. The combination of being over sized plus the changes to the movement profiles no longer makes the Wolfhound, Firestarter, Jenner (though they were irrelevant before), and the Jenner IIC (especially considering its proportions were already large before) viable choices.

You can still play them, and probably have fun with them, but their survivability has taken a major hit. Regardless of player skill.

These are my observations anyway. If Krivvan or Deathlike or any other competitive light player would care to correct me please do, I'd like to be proven wrong.

Edited by Sigilum Sanctum, 14 July 2016 - 08:29 AM.

[AnarchyBurger]

Honestly I would rather see the other lights made better than the locust take a hit. Mechs such as the commando, panther, firestarter, and wolfhound have become simply trash. Mechs the size of mediums without any of the benefit. As many others have said the locust simply looks so good because everything else is crap.

[Drenath]

Nightshade24, on 13 July 2016 - 08:50 AM, said:

I believe no 'Mech should get a 50% weapon quirk, or a 40%, or anything that high.

Locust 1V I am looking at you.

There''s like 6 variants plus a hero for the locusts so if anyone complains that a nerf to the locust 1V's energy quirks is unfair and they can't do locusts without it then they should feel ashamed or just get on to the other 3 locusts out there.

I might agree generally, but the 1V is really an exception - if you take away the laser quirks and the whole variant becomes pointless because it's built around a single energy hardpoint. Any other mechs like that? Game-wise the only real value of that thing is suppression fire. I've seen LPL and PPC builds but they just don't have the mobility to be effective.

I personally do much better with the PB, but the 1V's fast laser is a unique/special kind of fun while really not that impressive in terms of game impact. It's essentially a poor man's RVN-3L without ECM.

Edited by Drenath, 14 July 2016 - 09:31 AM.

[Blue Pheonix]

Take this from someone who has piloted all weight classes. PGI has made all light mechs suck to some degree because of constant nerfs because of constant complaining. Don't believe me? Pilot one yourself. Right now the locust and the Cheetah just "suck less" then the other turds.

With all this constant complaining, I expect PGI to nerf the locust and the cheetah soon. Then the good light pilots will have to again find and choose the "less sucky" mech to pilot until people then start complaining about that. Then soon after, that new mech will be on PGI's nerf radar. Are people sure they are not trying to nerf/hamstring the pilot and not necessarily the mech? Us pilots will just keep switching mechs, learning it, practicing it and getting good in that one. Then people will complain that one is OP.

Trust me when I tell you that with the weakest armor and damage alpha's/weapon loadouts, us light pilots have to work for our damage and our match score. Work hard. Some make it look easy but its not. Its work. Don't believe me, pilot some lights yourself.

PGI needs to buff lights, not nerf them. There is a reason they are the least piloted weight class in the game by a long shot. The average player does not do good in them. Only good players with good skill who practice and work with them do good in them. I, like other light pilots like the challenge in piloting a mech that keeps me on my toes with situational awareness (enemy mechs types, current damaged weak spots, friendly mechs, map layout etc). I can be "one shotted" easy so I have to know when to engage, where to engage and when to bolt". I however, don't like to be hamstrung consistently just because people don't want to work on their aim. I cant tell you how many times I have been "one shotted" both moving and standing still. Its hard enough with PGI making mechs, then turning them into turds because the average "weekend warrior" is getting owned by someone who plays a lot.

PGI, stop giving heavies and assaults "love" (just because everyone and their mom wants to pilot them and doesn't want to get "one shotted") and give some love to the lights and mediums! Stop this nerfing madness with lights because of the complainers and either actually make some decent lights or buff the ones you have so at least they "suck less" or don't suck at all (even better).

Edited by Blue Pheonix, 14 July 2016 - 12:00 PM.

[Littlerift]

Thinking more about the issue, it seems to me quite likely that the issue is that Light mechs take much more skill to do well in than other mech types (generally), and because of this and the limited pool of people who play Light mechs the class has a higher than average skill level. This gives the impression of the Lights being overpowered, when in reality they're underpowered but typically piloted by at least average to above average pilots. Most games Light mechs tend to do comparable damage to Heavies and Assaults, despite the fact that said Heavies and Assaults carry more weight in guns than the Light mechs weigh in total. Beginners flock to the Heavies and Assaults because they're the big, scary mechs with tonnes of guns, and there is a general notions that the classes are, in-fact, something of a ranking system, with Lights being the weakest and Assaults being the strongest. In some ways this is true, but because of this belief bad Assault pilots blame the Lights being OP for their destruction rather that reviewing their own actions.

[bukidog]

Dino Might, on 13 July 2016 - 06:20 AM, said:

Locusts used to be so few and far between. A few of us would man handle a couple of people in drops with the 20 ton monsters, but for the most part, Locusts were just there to die if they ever showed their faces at all. So people got used to never having to deal with them. Then, with the rescale, people thought to try them out. Suddenly, there are Locusts in almost every match, and some of them piloted by good players. Now, Locusts are getting 2 or 3 kills in a match, which is a far cry from where they used to be. So, now, there is a noticeable difference - Locusts seem too good because they are doing much better than before (despite before being bottom of the bargain bin levels of performance). To the average player, now this requires a nerf to return to the status quo, because no 20 ton mech should ever challenge a Timby.

Well, to all that I say, "meh..."
I played the Locust before quirks, I crushed people with it after quirks. I stopped playing it about 6 months ago just because they decided to make it more tanky and less mobile (make it more like every other light). So now, they'll again do the same - make every mech roughly the same, so that the same tactics and builds will work across the board, and nobody will ever have to think about what they are doing. We apparently want a game where we just mash buttons in point'n'click style Hello Kitty Island Adventure, but without the immersion.

To make my point clear: The Locust has ALWAYS been deadly, and the current levels of performance are in line with previous levels - it's just that more people are playing them now.

BEFORE THE RESIZE:





Where were the streams of player tears then?

Fine...make the Locust crappy. See if I care. Maybe I'll start playing it again to reintroduce myself to the hard mode that everyone wants to avoid like the plague (<-- hah, get it?).

Dino, you're my hero. And thanks for putting up a video that proves what we have all been saying, locusting is all about the pilot. It's a shame that Russ and PGI most likely won't even read this thread and will do what they have always done to lights when the heavies start crying.

Edited by bukidog, 14 July 2016 - 01:00 PM.