294 replies to this topic

[PraetorGix]

Bush Hopper, on 15 July 2016 - 12:33 PM, said:

After the locust the ACH will be next.

No no, why wait? Cheetah is nerfed now too. You know, just to make this erradicating of lights business a little faster... Oh but what a bunch of whinners we are, Jenners got accel buffs!

[Mole]

PraetorGix, on 15 July 2016 - 08:39 PM, said:

No no, why wait? Cheetah is nerfed now too. You know, just to make this erradicating of lights business a little faster... Oh but what a bunch of whinners we are, Jenners got accel buffs!

They don't need to nerf the ACH. The ACH will go down in flames when they introduce the new power draw system that I can feel in my bones they are gonna **** up royally.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Mole, on 15 July 2016 - 08:45 PM, said:

They don't need to nerf the ACH. The ACH will go down in flames when they introduce the new power draw system that I can feel in my bones they are gonna **** up royally.

Yes, let's kill off all lights because spuds can't aim

[Weeny Machine]

FupDup, on 15 July 2016 - 05:54 PM, said:

http://static.mwomer...rk%20Values.pdf

So, basically you're losing arm structure/armor, leg structure/armor, energy range, missile velocity, and laser duration.

Apparently the tiniest gundam in the game was too stronk.

Good for the Jenners that they got at least some agility buffs. It seems other lights, e.g. Wolfhound, are fine in PGI's eyes

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 15 July 2016 - 08:51 PM, said:

Yes, let's kill off all lights because spuds can't aim

I know you meant it in a satiric way but...actually it boils down to that. "Me cannot lolalpha dat mek. Nerf dis!1!!!"

Edited by Bush Hopper, 15 July 2016 - 11:29 PM.

[Ryllen Kriel]

PGI needs to nerf those PHXs and then VNDs too, those are so powerful!

[L3mming2]

i am sad this nerf is quite heavy... losing 26 of 44 structure... on top of losing most of its weapon quirks... pgi why u hate on the litle guy??

[Tordin]

They hate on the little guy because of reverse darwinism. People whine like theres no tomorrow that they cant hit, yet they might not bother at all to improve their arm. PGI listen.
Now the nerf on the cat and locust were kinda a bit too much. Lets hope their size give them proff of a good chunk of survivability still.

[BabyCakes666]

leave locust alone

and the cent D:<

[ComradeHavoc]

I'll say it again, the locust itself isn't op, hit detection, and you laggy sheeters warping all over with your hitbox so out of sync with you visual model that the hitbox is way back in mw4 is op.

Want to keep the locust in its current state? Make it have a 100 ping limit.

Dirty warping little laggers.

Ryllen Kriel, on 16 July 2016 - 12:20 AM, said:

PGI needs to nerf those PHXs and then VNDs too, those are so powerful!

Your but plug emblem under your fisty "fist" is appropriate.

Edited by ComradeHavoc, 16 July 2016 - 04:38 AM.

[BabyCakes666]

why carnt they just leave it a lone it is fine the way it is now

there a pain but deff not OP

PGI just stop :/

[Dino Might]

It is really funny, because of alpha warrior online and the prodigious rate of missing small targets, the LCT gets nerfs. But the LCT was THE BEST proponent for using chain fire, which is what they've been trying to get people to do forever.

What people really want is point and shoot hello kitty island adventure. They want big dumb targets that they click one button on repeatedly until it dies. They don't want a challenge. They want instant gratification.

Good game, everyone. I'm off to better and more interesting things. Mirage 2000 v SU 27, heck yeah!

[Besh]

Me considering myself a decent ( meaning better than average ) LCT Pilot - restricted to the Mastery Pack Variants though - I would like to propse a few Challenges to everyone in this Thread who complains, hates, or simply thinks the LCT needs a nerf for it being OP ( note that those are meant to be completed in PUG Games ) :

First Challenge :

• quickly ( before the Patch hits ) get a 1E, equip it with 6SPLas and a 190 XL ;
  
• do the following : on any given Map, run up to an enemy Assault at full speed, without being seen and/or engaged by any other Mech on the Assault's Team ;
  
• stop and stand still in front of the Assault and kill it, "abusing" the "flaw/bug/glitch" that makes it impossible for the Assault to see/target you (ProTip: If you want to kill Assaults, its actually easier to core/ST them from BEHIND ; but thats not what this Challenge is about...) ;

Next Challenge :

• For simplicity's sake ( and just because its my fav. Variant and Loadout ), stick with the 6SPLas, 190 XL 1E ;
  
• on any given Map, do 400+ dmg, and 3+ Kills, and survive the Match ;

Next Challenge:

• again, 6SPLas, 190 XL 1E ;
  
• on any given Map, clean up the last 4 enemy Mechs in the Match, while you are the last one standing in your Team ;

Next Challenge :

• same Mech and Loadout ;
  
• on any given Map, run around at full speed between a handfull of enemy Medium, Heavy and Assault Mechs, all trying to kill you, for a minute ;
  
• aim and shoot well enough to do significant dmg ( strip a location of its Armor, or kill through an open CT Location ) to any of the aforementioned Mechs, all the while never dropping from fullspeed ( if you do, you are dead in an instant ) ;
  
• survive that engagement and run away ;

Only, and ONLY if and when you are able to complete all those Challenges successfully, you have the qualification to say ANYTHING about the Performance of LCTs, especially in relation to Pilot Skills . Any lame rebuttal of my Challenges , or lamely excused unwillingness to take on the Challenges, immediately disqualifies you from the Discussion .




If you are not able to successfully complete all of those Challenges within 3 days, simply STFU and GTFO my LCTs . Its IS after all an OP Mech, isn't it ? Should be easy, and 3 days plenty of time....

Edited by Besh, 16 July 2016 - 03:45 PM.

[Dino Might]

At this point, the only thing that will bring me back to playing the Locust regularly is for them to completely zero out all the quirks on that chassis. I want a pure Locust, no bonuses, NOTHING to help it out. Because if we're going to not bother making it comparable, then we might as well go whole hog and make it the bullet hell insanity mode that would give it back an ounce of fun. No half measures.

Then I'll play it and kill people, and they won't have a darn excuse to make. That would bring me back. Until then, 27 spike on the RWR, gotta run boys and girls!

Edited by Dino Might, 16 July 2016 - 05:48 PM.

[Mole]

This is pretty much how I feel right now:

[Sigilum Sanctum]

Mole, on 16 July 2016 - 06:51 PM, said:

This is pretty much how I feel right now:

Me:

[Nightshade24]

InspectorG, on 15 July 2016 - 12:17 PM, said:

The answer to that is obvious and in front of your face. In MWO, a Locust 1V with 1 big lazor is better than 4MGs.

Just because mechs have hardpoints doesnt mean they are useful. You mistakenly assume hardpoints = role.

PGI gave those quirks to the 1V because they KNEW 4 MGs is garbage. Or Paul randomly guessed.

Point is still, 1 LPL with quirks is better than 4MG.

You want fighting at sub-100m? Use the 3M or E.

Just because you are obsessed about hardpoint counts doesnt mean PGI will balance accordingly. In case you havent noticed, PGI doesnt seem to really know how to balance the meta game let alone any given mech.

And Lore is a passing reference point and has little bearing on MWO.

People still think BT rules with random 2D6 systems will translate 1:1 to MWO. Fascinating.

Remove the quirks and the 1 smaller laser + 4 machine guns would be better over 1 large laser.

PGI didn't give those quirks to the 1V because they think MG's are garbage (in fact it's more likely because they think Machine guns are OP, remember what they said before? when they nerfed MG's by 20% because they think mechs like the locust, spider, and ember were over powered killing assaults easily and that one day if a 6 machine gun 'mech ever appears it'll be OP as hell? Did you ever thought why we are not getting the Piranha (12 machine guns) anytime soon or why machine guns got only nerfs in the past 4 years of MW: O? It's because PGI thinks machine guns are to good, not bad.)
The reason why they did it because too many people in the community (or verbal community that changes depending on issue is bipolar). At first there was an uproar: we need more lore quirks!/ more stock quriks!. Then after those changes people cried for more optimisation quirks/ more non lore quirks!, then people started saying the thing they said before again.
This is also why the Pirates bane no longer gets an AC 2 quirk. Because people wanted quirks that suited the stock (again).

The reason why PGI wanted this locust is pretty obvious, if you haven't been following anyonee specifically one of them prefers 1 large laser locust, he has them on two locusts, the 1V because it came first, and the 3M for a higher hardpoint version.

Mathematically, 4 machine guns and 1 medium laser gets nearly the same DPS as a single large pulse laser with uberquirks.
4 machine guns and medium pulse laser (3T ammo to 2T ammo) gets more DPS.
This is comparing the underquirked machine guns mostly to the uberquirked large pulse laser. The follow up differences to that is

without the weapon quirks the machine gun coupled with a medium laser at least in the respected ranges would be superior in terms of damage output compared to the large laser. If it isn't MLG/ cheesy/ meta/ competitive enough for you then that's your problem. Quirks in MW: O are mainly there to spread variety and boost on a 'Mechs advantage. This one is machine gun boating. Any locust in game right now can mount a large laser. none of them can mount 4 machine guns.

The last sentence is n/a in this context. I never mentioned BT rules, I never mentioned 2D6 or that it's a 1:1 translation to MW: O. If I wanted a 1:1 translation instead of complaining about quirks I would be saying force every 'Mech to be stock. As well as shout clan mechs should be in stars not lances, clans should be in a binary not a company, clan and IS are devided teams in FP, etc.

If I want to fight under 200 meters, why should I use the 3M over the 1V? There's a huge gameplay difference between the two mechs, such as the lack of ballistic hardpoints as well as the heat build up. Even a blind man can tell you the differencess between a small pulse laser and a machine gun.

Drenath, on 15 July 2016 - 11:15 AM, said:

You do make some excellent points though I disagree on a few.

The quirks are a big part of it but the hardpoints IMO are a bigger consideration. If it had 2-3 energy hardpoints between CT/head you'd see more build diversity. Even without the quirks, keeping a single laser hardpoint would likely resuilt in the same builds we see. Or not see because they'd be nerfing a 'mech which isn't even that good today.

Curious how much MG ammo you spent on that 1000+ damage match, and what your MG accuracy looks like. Mine's in the 50's, which if my math is correct puts me just under 100dmg/ton of ammo.

Before the quirks 4 machine gun locusts were common, rather 4 MG + ML, or 4MG + MPL, builds were also popular for 2MG and 1 Large laser, but these were not as common as the 4 MG locusts, 1 large laser/ 1 large pulse lasers were not that common before the quirkening because 4 mg's provided nearly the same DPS as a single large laser and did more with a medium laser as well.

My build has a medium laser and 4 machine guns, I also ran a lighter engine which this is due to having 4 tonnes of machine gun ammo which I do run out relatively often but most often within optimal range. However I got a 2nd Locust 1V (due to how dirt cheap they are) which has the same load out but instead of a lighter engine it's lighter armour.

4T of machine gun ammo is 8000 rounds, each round doing 0.08 damage. Approximately 640 damage if all bullets hit. Most of the time they do as I am basically right up the back of an atlas or what have you. (killing him in a couple seconds due to the sheer DPS of machine guns). The medium laser did the remainder of the ~360. However I must say I do not (or back then) run modules, and I do believe machine gun ROF quirks back when wasn't in game either. If I modules up my medium laser/ had machine gun ROF quirks / if I can module a machine gun the damage would be higher. Of course I will not pretend every single bullet hits. It'll be like firing an LRM 20 at an enemy and trying to count how much missed and hit. However I can tell you I would definetely not hit 1000 damage with a single medium laser alone.

I would personally appreciate if PGI makes the machine gun dps back to 1.0 / made the damage per shot back to 0.1 instead of 0.08. Would teach those bad players who pretend a machine gun light can't hurt them to not ignore a 'mech. But then again it would probably make the Locust 1V and Spider 5K kings of lights again... would be so fun to see the Piranha in game or Kraken.
I really want to run 12 machine guns , 2 gauss, and an STD 400 on my kraken.

[InspectorG]

Nightshade24, on 16 July 2016 - 07:28 PM, said:

Remove the quirks and the 1 smaller laser + 4 machine guns would be better over 1 large laser.

PGI didn't give those quirks to the 1V because they think MG's are garbage (in fact it's more likely because they think Machine guns are OP, remember what they said before? when they nerfed MG's by 20% because they think mechs like the locust, spider, and ember were over powered killing assaults easily and that one day if a 6 machine gun 'mech ever appears it'll be OP as hell? Did you ever thought why we are not getting the Piranha (12 machine guns) anytime soon or why machine guns got only nerfs in the past 4 years of MW: O? It's because PGI thinks machine guns are to good, not bad.)
The reason why they did it because too many people in the community (or verbal community that changes depending on issue is bipolar). At first there was an uproar: we need more lore quirks!/ more stock quriks!. Then after those changes people cried for more optimisation quirks/ more non lore quirks!, then people started saying the thing they said before again.
This is also why the Pirates bane no longer gets an AC 2 quirk. Because people wanted quirks that suited the stock (again).

The reason why PGI wanted this locust is pretty obvious, if you haven't been following anyonee specifically one of them prefers 1 large laser locust, he has them on two locusts, the 1V because it came first, and the 3M for a higher hardpoint version.

Mathematically, 4 machine guns and 1 medium laser gets nearly the same DPS as a single large pulse laser with uberquirks.
4 machine guns and medium pulse laser (3T ammo to 2T ammo) gets more DPS.
This is comparing the underquirked machine guns mostly to the uberquirked large pulse laser. The follow up differences to that is

without the weapon quirks the machine gun coupled with a medium laser at least in the respected ranges would be superior in terms of damage output compared to the large laser. If it isn't MLG/ cheesy/ meta/ competitive enough for you then that's your problem. Quirks in MW: O are mainly there to spread variety and boost on a 'Mechs advantage. This one is machine gun boating. Any locust in game right now can mount a large laser. none of them can mount 4 machine guns.

4(old)MG+1SL would be OP...at 100m.

MWO tends to play at 500m.

So yeah, you wanna argue the 1V is a MG boat why the hell didnt PGI give it MG quirks and the Lazer ones to a different Locust?

Why hasnt the previous E quirks been transplanted to another Locust variant? 3V, maybe?

Was it because AT THAT TIME they realized MGs are crap and 1E NEEDED to do something big?

So by your logic we will get A MG Locust(1V), A half MG Locust(3V), Another half MG Locust(PB), a SRM knife fighter(S), a lazer knife fighter(3M), a ML poker(E)/SPL knife fighter, and a half lazer/SRM(1M).

Such variety. Good thing most roles in MWO are built on sub300m Brawling, right?

I would be interested in Machine Guns if they WERENT CoF 100m face huggers.

Instead ill just use the Locust S and have the tactical option to Front Load my damage and break off instead of face hugging to maybe rack up the damage on the component i want.


"Any Locust can mount a Large Laser..."
True, BUT you omitted the advantage of the 50% reduction in FACETIME using a weapon that has a giant blue line pointing to the shooter in which decent players would target that spot.
Perhaps you want a PPC Locust?

A ERLL Locust with that much Duration Reduction was a pretty unique mech. PGI you know, COULD have just stripped it of its structure quirks, maybe even nerf structure, and leave a unique 20ton sniper.

And yes, you never mentioned BT rules.

But if you have been paying attention you would realize a lot of PGI's balance problems stem from:
A. Not understanding BT rules.
B. Not understanding the various roles of weapons in BT and their relation to the BT crit system.
C. Not knowing what BT rules to use(mechbuilding), which to ignore, and when to create new rules that fit a FPS.
D. The various arguments FOR or AGAINST using Lore in all of the above.

Stock builds would be great, but it would fail due to the crit-system. A good half the mechs would suffer from under-ammo. Players would cry about too short TTK because most BT mech only ran half armor - an advantage for the Goods, a penalty for the Bads. Goods would saw off ST/CT faster than now. Bads would bombard Russ's Twitter.
PGI said they cant run MM that would have to balance 12 IS mechs vs 9 Clan(or whatever) and PRS cant even.

With Stock builds it would be Warhawk Prime all day. And Locusts with 4 leg armor.

I love Stock but it wont work except for the few, like me, willing to adjust to the harsher 'environment'.

[Jon Gotham]

N0ni, on 13 July 2016 - 02:53 AM, said:

As someone who never uses lock ons.. i have no problem hitting them with just about anything.

I don't think hitting them is the problem. Damage registering on them might be. I own 3 locusts myself, and I have had some amazing damage shrugging going on. Right now if you twist about and move at same time, the small hotboxes spread like crazy and don't always register hits cleanly.
The ACh on the other hand seems to be a shot magnet.

[TheMisled]

people are only gonna complain when you have games like this: http://plays.tv/vide...manar?from=user

If you notice, most of them just couldn't aim, that and I just tried to stick as close to another mech as possible to make it harder for them to hit me without hitting thier own. They all huddled in close trying to get the kill but that just made things easier for me as I didn't have to run long distances in the open to get to them. simply knowing how to use a mech can make it seem incredibly OP to the pilot on the recieving end, especially when it comes to lights as, despite being the hardest of all the classes to use, they can be really effective in the right hands.

I think my main concern with the quirkining in this patch has got the be the removal of laser duration quircks for the 1E. in my humble opinion, that'll make hitting things with enough of the laser to deal a suitable amount of damage to them while running around thier feet at 160Kmph an absolute nightmare.

Edited by e1itegamerpro, 17 July 2016 - 03:13 PM.

[Mole]

Sometimes I think a drunken toddler with a double inner ear infection trying to walk a tight rope with a bowling ball in one hand and a feather in the other would know balance better than PGI.