157 replies to this topic

[Andi Nagasia]

@Pat Kell,
if LongTom should be Changed, i think instead of out right removing it push it back to 1%
which i think would be something like having 590 Points of 600(so 1 Match of Scouting),

make the Space where LongTom is a DropShip Timer Increase,
so you only Get Reinforcements Every 60Seconds Rather than 30Seconds,
that would shot threw Enemy Scouting your Dropships are finding it harder to get to the Planet,
as your Landing Zone has been Compromised, Ect,

i think this would be a Good Trade off i think,
and LongTom will almost never be seen unless your Perilously Neglecting Scouting,
as its hard to get to 100% Scouting, even if your Fighting under Organized Groups,

[xWiredx]

So let me get this all straight.

Longtom in BT TT is 30/20/10 and the explosive damage (blast wave essentially) goes out like... up to 90m right? I have never played TT and am only vaguely familiar with the rules, but I can at least use Sarna, so correct me where I'm wrong.

Now since PGI has doubled the armor to increase TTK, if we strictly double Longtom damage, it becomes 60/40/20 but the radius should stay the same. if we let the radius expand proportionally, its 180m.

We're pretty close at the new 200m value for the radius, but I would like to see that get shored up since I think the real intent here is to keep the enemy deathball more spread out. 180m is probably fine for that except during a light rush.

The damage, though... that still needs to get cut in half compared to the new value for it to be even remotely inline with what it should be.

C'mon, PGI, does anybody there do math? Does anybody Google anything? I'm still miffed about fall damage and its lack of ignoring current technology let alone future technology. Yet here you are again basically just ignoring logic for the sake of attempting to claim you know what you're doing.

[Obadiah333]

Jman5 "As we all know people really enjoy being bombed out of the sky with virtually no in-game recourse."

I agree that the long tom system is broken. It's too powerful. It should maybe only drop twice a match. It needs reduced radius, reduced damage, reduced everything. I agree that it is not helping people want to play FW. I agree with most of your points about long tom.

That said, why are you making moronic statements like the one quoted above? Every person on here that is complaining about long tom - hey, there is a way to deal with it. It's called scouting. If you are too lazy to scout and want to just assault a planet that has long tom, the problem is you. The in-game recourse is called scouting. It's a game mode. It's in faction play, the tab just left to the assault tab. Go check it out. OR, just continue to drop on planets that have long tom and then come cry on the forums that it can't be stopped and it's not fair. Good luck with that.

[Tanil Kane]

Obadiah333, on 15 July 2016 - 07:02 AM, said:

That said, why are you making moronic statements like the one quoted above? Every person on here that is complaining about long tom - hey, there is a way to deal with it. It's called scouting. If you are too lazy to scout and want to just assault a planet that has long tom, the problem is you. The in-game recourse is called scouting. It's a game mode. It's in faction play, the tab just left to the assault tab. Go check it out. OR, just continue to drop on planets that have long tom and then come cry on the forums that it can't be stopped and it's not fair. Good luck with that.

Having one game mode determine the playability of another game mode is a horrible idea. Not everyone enjoys scouting mode, nor enjoys medium and light mechs. People that pilot and enjoy Heavies and Assaults shouldn't be forced to grind away in scout mode before they can actually play the game they enjoy. They will either just do Quickplay or log off.

And you can drop on a planet that does not have long tom active at the time you queue up, only to have it be active by the time you actually drop or become active during the match itself, especially with the long wait times for some factions. At that point there is no recourse.

[Wintersdark]

Obadiah333, on 15 July 2016 - 07:02 AM, said:

That said, why are you making moronic statements like the one quoted above? Every person on here that is complaining about long tom - hey, there is a way to deal with it. It's called scouting. If you are too lazy to scout and want to just assault a planet that has long tom, the problem is you. The in-game recourse is called scouting. It's a game mode. It's in faction play, the tab just left to the assault tab. Go check it out. OR, just continue to drop on planets that have long tom and then come cry on the forums that it can't be stopped and it's not fair. Good luck with that.

I don't think you've really thought that through.

People don't continue to drop on planets with long tom. That's the whole damn point.

But they don't go to scouting, for many reasons:

Not everyone enjoys scouting, some don't like lights/mediums, some are looking to play larger groups, etc.

So people, when faced with Long Tom, just stop playing.

Can you seriously not see how that is a problem? How a mechanic so broken that nobody will play with it is a ruinously bad design?

There's no incentive to face Long Tom. It's pointless. Barring extreme skill mismatches and tremendous luck, it's a guaranteed loss. So, people either go to quick play, or log off completely.

[Mystere]

Andi Nagasia, on 14 July 2016 - 06:43 PM, said:

so what your saying it it would be like 6SSRM6s hitting you 2.5times? every 4 minutes?

Lights and Mediums are fast Enough to get out of the way in time,
Heavies and Assaults would just Shrug it off, it would be Useless, at that point just remove it,

the LongTom Should Hurt, its an Incentive for you to Scout the Planet and Attack,
if you are getting hit with the LT you need to get an Active Scouting Party,
edit- Spelling

Well, that's the entire history of MWO right there, isn't it? People loudly demand the removal of each and every Mech, weapon, piece of equipment, map, game mode, and mechanic they do not like, or worse, gives them any disadvantage because they simply refused to counter it.

People want the LT to be gone, pronto, and absolutely without any consideration of figuring out how it can be made to work. No, just remove them, just like everything else.

Damn! I miss JM on these forums.

MischiefSC, on 14 July 2016 - 07:56 PM, said:

So your argument is literally the exact same one used to justify broken IS/Clan balance for 2 years? "Yes, it's broken (in my favor) but you need to learn to work with it anyway because that's hardmode".

Did you even read? AN is saying "fix it" and not "remove it". There is a galactic difference.

Edited by Mystere, 15 July 2016 - 10:46 AM.

[Deathlike]

Mystere, on 15 July 2016 - 10:33 AM, said:

Well, that's the entire history of MWO right there, isn't it? People loudly demand the removal of each and every Mech, weapon, piece of equipment, map, game mode, and mechanic they do not like, or worse, gives them any disadvantage because they simply refused to counter it.

People want the LT to be gone, pronto, and absolutely without any consideration of figuring out how it can be made to work. No, just remove them, just like everything else.

It would involve a mega-nerf, even if you wanted to keep it.

[EvilCow]

Only 120 damage?

DOA

[Mystere]

Pat Kell, on 15 July 2016 - 12:57 AM, said:

Sorry for the wall of text but for those who like to skip to the end to get the point, just read this. Remove or drastically weaken long tom or CW will never be able to pull itself out of the basement and low player participation that you are currently seeing. Not saying that a lot will come back as there are obviously many reasons why people have left CW but this one seems like the absolute easiest to fix....just hit the delete key.

Frankly, CW has much much bigger problems than the LT. The latter is just the latest "rage magnet". But, this "I don't like XXX, therefore remove XXX pronto!" attitude many here display is just not helping either.

Edited by Mystere, 15 July 2016 - 10:53 AM.

[Mystere]

Pat Kell, on 15 July 2016 - 01:14 AM, said:

There simply has to be a better way to incentivize people to put in the effort to do scouting missions. Higher pay outs, give more loyalty/merc points, make a separate faction reward tree so that as you scout, you can earn free stuff such as you get as a loyalist or a merc...cuz lets face it, there are some who would rather get poked in the eye repeatedly than run scout missions.

I disagree. CW lacks the feeling of fighting a campaign, a war, where each fight is related to the next. Thus, changing scouting mode so that it just gives rewards is not fixing the fundamental problem. It's just adding to it.

Pat Kell, on 15 July 2016 - 01:14 AM, said:

SAVE CW- REMOVE LONG TOM

This "I don't like XXX, therefore remove XXX!" mentality is part of the problem.

In an somewhat related note, I guess we'll soon find out if the BREXIT folks are right.

R3av3r, on 15 July 2016 - 04:49 AM, said:

Scouting should not do -anything- to an Invasion Match. There should not be separate modes that interact. The idea that some idiot in a game that I am not playing can absolutely RUIN the game that I am playing is moronic and terrible.

Then what the **** is CW for then if it is just QP with respawns?

As I keep saying, at least half of the problems with MWO can be traced back to the player base. <smh>

[Mystere]

Andi Nagasia, on 15 July 2016 - 05:44 AM, said:

how is it broken in my Favor?
1) is it because im in JadeFalcon? and they are the only Clan with Actual Groud,
(this doesnt matter in the Slightest, i could be in Any House/Clan and have the same thoughts)
2) is it because im in a Unit? and Units seem to Control a Good Majority of FW?
(anyone can Organize and form a Group, thats what LFG was created for)

Nether of these Above Matter ...

Come on! You know exactly what kind of a response is, plain and simple.

Edited by Mystere, 15 July 2016 - 11:17 AM.

[Mystere]

xWiredx, on 15 July 2016 - 06:11 AM, said:

So let me get this all straight.

Longtom in BT TT is 30/20/10 and the explosive damage (blast wave essentially) goes out like... up to 90m right? I have never played TT and am only vaguely familiar with the rules, but I can at least use Sarna, so correct me where I'm wrong.

Now since PGI has doubled the armor to increase TTK, if we strictly double Longtom damage, it becomes 60/40/20 but the radius should stay the same. if we let the radius expand proportionally, its 180m.

We're pretty close at the new 200m value for the radius, but I would like to see that get shored up since I think the real intent here is to keep the enemy deathball more spread out. 180m is probably fine for that except during a light rush.

The damage, though... that still needs to get cut in half compared to the new value for it to be even remotely inline with what it should be.

C'mon, PGI, does anybody there do math? Does anybody Google anything? I'm still miffed about fall damage and its lack of ignoring current technology let alone future technology. Yet here you are again basically just ignoring logic for the sake of attempting to claim you know what you're doing.

Why expect PGI to use math and logic if a large chunk of the player base refuses to do so too?

Tanil Kane, on 15 July 2016 - 07:36 AM, said:

Having one game mode determine the playability of another game mode is a horrible idea.

That's because your frame of mind -- and that of many others -- is just restricted to simple "game modes". Now imagine if instead we had "campaigns", where one battle affected the course of others.

Edited by Mystere, 15 July 2016 - 11:26 AM.

[C E Dwyer]

Reduced or not, its still extremely bad and extremely stupid to have something this powerful dropping randomly, this frequently.

People will stop playing F.W all the time LT is in place, dropping this often.

This is a classic example of P.G.I refusing to admit they screwed the pooch and its reducing F.W population.

I'll come back when its dropping at least 50% less frequently, preferably limited to once every ten minutes

[Mystere]

Deathlike, on 15 July 2016 - 10:37 AM, said:

It would involve a mega-nerf, even if you wanted to keep it.

Heck, I have no problem with LT being replaced by regular artillery or air strikes, possibly with more shells and bombs . It's something I've suggested long ago.

Cathy, on 15 July 2016 - 11:26 AM, said:

Reduced or not, its still extremely bad and extremely stupid to have something this powerful dropping randomly, this frequently.

People will stop playing F.W all the time LT is in place, dropping this often.

This is a classic example of P.G.I refusing to admit they screwed the pooch and its reducing F.W population.

I'll come back when its dropping at least 50% less frequently, preferably limited to once every ten minutes

In other words, make it irrelevant in proportion to the cost of achieving it? Might as well shut down the servers.

[1453 R]

Jman5, on 13 July 2016 - 05:07 PM, said:

http://mwomercs.com/...ejuly-road-map/



Thank goodness. Now if you bring a 100 ton Direwolf it will only be crippled beyond use instead of out-right killed. Oh and don't you worry about ejecting. Long Tom just stepped out for some of his "medicine". He's coming right back in two minutes to teach you the meaning of respect and how your generation is a bunch of entitled whiners.

The reduced radius will also mean you might only lose or cripple 2-3 mechs every 2 minutes instead of 4 or 5.

Also they're going to keep Long Tom's cooldown precisely aligned with the dropship cooldown so that it can continue focusing down freshly dropped mechs that are forcibly clustered in a tight spot and unable to move. Incidentally, did you know that Long Tom cannot abide crowds?

Having the cooldown set at 2 minutes resulting in up to 14 separate visits from Long Tom is in no way unreasonable. Especially in a game with Limited respawns and a counter-attack game mode that is decided by kill count.

They're also totally not double counting torsos in the maximum damage per mech. A maximum of 1,320 damage per mech is a completely reasonable amount.

Finally, terrain and elevation will continue playing absolutely no role in blocking or reducing damage. As we all know Long Tom is deeply suspicious of people who try to avoid his company. He will burst through meters of solid rock and concrete to find you.

As we all know people really enjoy being bombed out of the sky with virtually no in-game recourse. I'm sure the queue numbers for those planets are going to really take off after this change. It totally wont continue relying on suckers not checking the scouting percentage before launching.

Must really, really suck that the Scouting game mode actually has a function, dunnit? I mean, who'd want to give singletons or small groups of buddies any recourse at all from the normal FW methodology of "get farmed by MercStar 24/7", eh?

I mean, you'd figure that the answer to the Long Tom being really potent was to not let your recon elements get continuously wrecked to the point where you end up Long Tom'd in the first place, but what do I know, eh?

[C E Dwyer]

Mystere, on 15 July 2016 - 11:29 AM, said:

In other words, make it irrelevant in proportion to the cost of achieving it? Might as well shut down the servers.

Who said anything about shutting down servers, but why should I bother to support a part of the game that P.G.I made unfun even more.

If reducing the frequency of a thing to a level where its aceptable for somemore folks to come back is going to cause the servers to close, then the lights will go out whether they do or they don't change things

[dervishx5]

So basically the Long Tom is being changed from this:



To this:



Seems legit.

[MischiefSC]

@Mystere

We don't want a mechanic that fights for us. That simple. We put up with turrets because we can kill them. We grudgingly put up with dropships because spawn camping.

We don't want a mechanic that damages and destroys mechs automatically. If you made it incredibly weak then yeah, I sorta guess, but end of the day? If a robot dies it should be because we killed it with guns on our robot. Not because some pug somewhere took a spider to a scout match. MY MATCH SHOULD BE DECIDED BY MY TEAMS PLAY.

If you don't have that you'll bleed players. End of story. Because it's a bad mechanic.

@Andi -

Same as above. I'll side fro. Scouting balance being broken as Pat mentioned we don't want a auto damage mechanic and we don't want wins in someone else's scouting match to dictate wins in my invasion match. That's a bad game mechanic. It's one thing to lose a world because bad pugs or other faction has better teams. Losing MY MATCH because bad pugs in scouting means people don't play.

The mechanic is emptying FW. That's fundamentally a bad game mechanic.

[Mystere]

MischiefSC, on 15 July 2016 - 01:28 PM, said:

@Mystere

We don't want a mechanic that fights for us. That simple. We put up with turrets because we can kill them. We grudgingly put up with dropships because spawn camping.

We don't want a mechanic that damages and destroys mechs automatically. If you made it incredibly weak then yeah, I sorta guess, but end of the day? If a robot dies it should be because we killed it with guns on our robot. Not because some pug somewhere took a spider to a scout match. MY MATCH SHOULD BE DECIDED BY MY TEAMS PLAY.

If you don't have that you'll bleed players. End of story. Because it's a bad mechanic.

I have a question for all of you. How do you implement artillery and air superiority in a war game?

And for emphasis:

MischiefSC, on 15 July 2016 - 01:28 PM, said:

MY MATCH SHOULD BE DECIDED BY MY TEAMS PLAY.

Well, I want my war decided by my faction.

Edited by Mystere, 15 July 2016 - 01:38 PM.

[1453 R]

MischiefSC, on 15 July 2016 - 01:28 PM, said:

@Mystere

We don't want a mechanic that fights for us. That simple. We put up with turrets because we can kill them. We grudgingly put up with dropships because spawn camping.

We don't want a mechanic that damages and destroys mechs automatically. If you made it incredibly weak then yeah, I sorta guess, but end of the day? If a robot dies it should be because we killed it with guns on our robot. Not because some pug somewhere took a spider to a scout match. MY MATCH SHOULD BE DECIDED BY MY TEAMS PLAY.

If you don't have that you'll bleed players. End of story. Because it's a bad mechanic.

@Andi -

Same as above. I'll side fro. Scouting balance being broken as Pat mentioned we don't want a auto damage mechanic and we don't want wins in someone else's scouting match to dictate wins in my invasion match. That's a bad game mechanic. It's one thing to lose a world because bad pugs or other faction has better teams. Losing MY MATCH because bad pugs in scouting means people don't play.

The mechanic is emptying FW. That's fundamentally a bad game mechanic.

Question, if I may?

Then what do you propose the point of Scouting is? If Scout mode has no impact, bearing, or effect whatsoever on Invasion, as your comments seem to suggest you favor, then why would it exist?

Faction Play, in general, bleeds players because there is absolutely, positively, no worthwhile goddamn way for solo singletons or Friday-night-gaming-buddy groups to get into FP and not be mercilessly ground up into meat shreds by five hundred-man megalliances Bent On Galactic Domination™. Scouting mode was meant to be a playground for the little guy; the guys who the majority of the FP playerbase scorns, denigrates, and discriminates heavily against can still have his Faction Play-y fun in Scouting games where the Invasion guys can't tell him to uninstall and hang himself for not being part of a thousand-man Official Army the way everyone in FP is supposed to be.

What do you propose the solution is to the fact that Faction Play's 'standard' modes are monumentally discriminatory to The Average Joe, if the Scouting mode is supposed to be completely excised from FP?