176 replies to this topic

[Mekwarrior]

I think the locust was the only light to not be hit my a large size increase recently.

I tried the locust once a few months ago but the cockpit view is sooo bad and obstructed that it's just no fun to play no matter what it's like in specs.

Competitive lights and fast mechs were keeping the game interesting, now it's just all about hiding. Which team has the greatest tolerance for boredom and can stay in cover for and LRM+snipe the longest. The team with players that don't want to sit and wait for 5+ minutes usually loose because they have to attack an entrenched enemy. The higher boredom tolerance team only attacks when they have a significant advantage after destroying several lower boredom tolerance player's mechs. Even then they often don't want to move from hiding until they have a 3-1 or more advantage.

Lights used to break up that type of gameplay a bit, but now they are just useless big targets.

Edited by Mekwarrior, 19 July 2016 - 02:36 AM.

[PhoenixFire55]

jss78, on 19 July 2016 - 01:43 AM, said:

Good points there ... Honestly I always found the SL/SPL-boat ACH, flying under a +5 Lag Shield of Destiny, the single dumbest thing I ever saw in this game. It's like a transplant from a generic twitch shooter, not a battlemech to me. Will admit to being bitter, they've touched me in all the wrong places, many times over.

I honestly laughed a little every time I saw CheetahOP thread on the forum because since day one when ACH came out I had no issues with them. I think on a 2nd day of their release I had a match when three! SPL-ACHs caught up with my Battlemaster on Viridian and tryed to kill me. Yeah, I got wrecked real bad and died, but not before I killed two of them and probably crippled the third as well. Back against a wall, make em feed themselves into your frontal arc, alpha their legs, if they jump, the better for ya etc.

As for lagshield ... you clearly don't know what lagshield is if you think ACH or any mech that came out relativly not so long ever had it. I remember the good ol times of closed beta and Raven-3L. Me and a buddy could take two 3Ls and engage and entire enemy team (8 people back there) all by ourselves, kill half of them and badly damage the other half before even starting to think about withdrawing due to our own mechs starting to get open components. I can easily recall situations when I needed to unload 30 gauss slugs (the old one without charge) into a nothing-but-CT-Jenner at point blank range to strip his CT armor.

Yeah, hit reg is bad, always was, always will be given its PGI we are talking about, but its not lights-exclusive, it happens occasionaly with all mechs. Its just more apparent with lights, as speed worsens it quite a lot.

Anyway, as I said, I think lights are supposed to be fragile, they aren't supposed to be able to engage a heavy or an assault 1on1 with any hope to win. But then again, they are supposed to be doing different things, i.e. actual scouting that means anything, and be properly rewarded for it, not with stupid c-bills but rather with being able to sway the outcome of the match with the info they provide. PGI never gave this to lights, thus the last "balancing" pass is just a huge FU to all light pilots.

[Mekwarrior]

Everyone always thinks ppl that play lights want to engage 1vs several or attack the whole enemy team solo but I'm never saying or expecting that.

I want to be able to support the friendly team engaging at medium range. I want to be able to scout, see a lance and then retreat without sustaining very heavy damage.

Lights can't scout on most maps (only the very large open ones) because they can't retreat without sustaining a lot of damage to make them useless in the rest of the game.

They can't support their team at medium range because recently they are prime targets because other players know how weak and large they are recently, they are always targeted first.


Inner sphere light and fast mechs are disappearing from MWO games.

Edited by Mekwarrior, 19 July 2016 - 02:38 AM.

[Stone Wall]

OP is super wrong. Lights are deadly but it's all about positioning, timing, aiming, and awareness. Check out my screenshots from yesterday. You can succeed OP. I believe in you.

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__5297027

Mekwarrior, on 19 July 2016 - 02:32 AM, said:

I want to be able to support the friendly team engaging at medium range. I want to be able to scout, see a lance and then retreat without sustaining very heavy damage.

Lights can't scout on most maps (only the very large open ones) because they can't retreat without sustaining a lot of damage to make them useless in the rest of the game.

They can't support their team at medium range because recently they are prime targets because other players know how weak and large they are recently, they are always targeted first.


Inner sphere light and fast mechs are disappearing from MWO games.

You need a faster engine or to just get good. That's all it is.

[Mekwarrior]

You mean hiding and sniping. That's not my playstyle sorry, it means long very boring games and won't work with a lot of maps.

Ok so if you like that playstyle that's cool but why do you want to make it so that's the only playstyle an entire class of mechs can ever play as?

Edited by Mekwarrior, 19 July 2016 - 03:01 AM.

[Stone Wall]

check out that Locust video in the thread if you need an example of play style

[Mekwarrior]

The locust was the only mech not have be massively increased in size to the size of a medium mech.

I'm talking about the old inner sphere mechs like the jenner and others, also the cicada.

Play as the jenner or the cicada, not one of the newer mechs.

Edited by Mekwarrior, 19 July 2016 - 03:21 AM.

[L3mming2]

MrMadguy, on 19 July 2016 - 12:47 AM, said:

For you and for all others, who complain about Light nerfs. Lights aren't intended to openly attack enemies and have never been. If you got used to such kind of gameplay and now cry, that you want to play exactly like this - then you should know, that you have never been intended to play Lights this way, cuz it's actually unintended cheat/exploit. It happened only due to PGI, being incompetent, not knowing limitations their game engine (at which speed/size ratio quantization/aiming problems start to happen) and simple rules of game design, such as responsiveness of game (i.e. player should be sure, whether he has hit target or not - not guess it) - as the result, allowing such pure cheats/exploits, as invulnerable Lights, to happen.

your blanket statments on lights would carry more weight if u actualy played them... again a guy with 0 light maches sinds the rescale...

[Stone Wall]

L3mming2, on 19 July 2016 - 03:18 AM, said:

your blanket statments on lights would carry more weight if u actualy played them... again a guy with 0 light maches sinds the rescale...

heh there you go again. you must really hate Lights or something.

Mekwarrior, on 19 July 2016 - 03:18 AM, said:

The locust was the only mech not have be massively increased in size to the size of a medium mech.

I'm talking about the old inner sphere mechs like the jenner and others, also the cicada.

Play as the jenner or the cicada, not one of the newer mechs.

Played 3 games yesterday. One was in a Jenner with 5 kills. It's not that hard. But it's not as easy as taking 4 uac 10s or using LRMs in Closed Beta.

[MeiSooHaityu]

IMO, Cicadas are pretty good and fun to use. Run MLasers or maybe MPLasers, install a big engine, and profit! They just seem to be quick, agile, have higher weapon mounts, and most energy quirks are range based giving you a bit more range to work with.

Now actual lights are harder for me to pilot at close ranges. I can do it, but it takes patience, maneuvering, and just overall knowing when to commit to a fight and when not to. It just isn't as straight forward as other classes. That is why I prefer my lights to be support like my Panther 10K with ERPPC or Urbanmech with ERPPC.

[Mekwarrior]

The Cicada doesn't seem to be able to survive any more damage than lights. It's supposed to be a in a heavier class but it doesn't seem to be in actual gameplay.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Mekwarrior, on 19 July 2016 - 03:28 AM, said:

The Cicada doesn't seem to be able to survive any more damage than lights. It's supposed to be a in a heavier class but it doesn't seem to be in actual gameplay.

Only 5 tons separate it from the light class, so that is about right. The thing about the Cicada is that it has high mount arms and often is very nimble to allow it to use cover for protection. Add to that possibly the best shield arms in the game, and it can do pretty well. Not to mention it often cools better than lights as well (seems to anyway).

The Cicada is still a situational mech like light mechs tend to be (again only 5 tons heavier than a light), but to me that extra 5 tons seems to make it more forgiving.

[WarPickle]

Waahhhhh... my 20 ton light is fragile..... I have to learn a play style now that doesn't involve charging off like a freakin maniac into the enemy force shooting everything then running away unscathed (for the most part)... it's a light... it should die like a light!

My 100 ton king crab should not be dying faster than a freaking locust... but yet it does... but boo hoo..... for your stupid lights that now have to use some sort of tactics...

By the way I have lots of lights and enjoy them regularly.... I use them to support my team, cap points or scout rather than be a suicidal nut job and running off lasers blazin like Butch and Sundance....

[ShoeKush]

I’ve had some 500 damage games in the (S)team variant of the Artic Cheetah. Which is insane btw, hitting my jets and flying spins of spinning red laser vomit death. Or I sneak up behind you with the (S)team variant of the Raven. It is quite fun to penetrate the rear with a Raven.

Which is exactly what occurs with the Locust. Strap a nice engine to it and the damned thing is insane. I honestly don’t believe these pilots about their lag shield. I never seem to benefit from any kind of shield. Just a mech that takes light damage because its moving so fast, and is so small, it’s impossible to keep the lasers focused. Besides most people aren’t looking for fast mechs scampering round their backs.

But some prefer it.
In any case the job of the light mech is to provide ECM cover.

Saying again, ECM. You have an OP Anti Missile System. Stay with your unit.

Of course saying that into these forums is like speaking into a cavern, as most posters know how to play this game. Seeing as I believe my ranking indicator is stuck on five for some reason it must just be my, burgeoning on psychic connection, to communicate to rank 5 lights with an ECM to stay with their team, or go counter the enemy's countermeasures. Be useful, basically.

Edited by ShoeKush, 19 July 2016 - 03:47 AM.

[MrMadguy]

I actually don't think, that PGI realized their mistakes and started to fix them. I think, that they prepare for release of new $$$ Light 'Mech and realized, that nobody would buy it, if game will still be filled with OP enough free Light 'Mechs, like ACH-Prime, and making this new $$$ Light even more OP - isn't physically possible. So, prepare for announcement of new IS Light 'Mech.

[KHETTI]

In MWO if you are good enough mobility trumps firepower all day long.

[Mekwarrior]

Classic light inner sphere mechs are obsolete now since the latest massive size increase. Add to that the new clan shadow cat always packing lots of streak srms and it's the end for the classic inner sphere lights.

[Morticia Mellian]

*See's the OP indicating that lights are nerfed and useless, and then another suggesting the complete opposite with lights being overpowered and exploitative.*

As someone who generally plays light mechs and some of the faster mediums like the Cicada, I think both point of view comes from lack of skill or failing to actually work with your teams.

First of all, if you are bee lining right into the enemy with a light in open view of the opposing team, then you are doing it wrong, especially if you stop and do not use cover / take advantage of the terrain, hell, stay in one spot. Mobility is your armor, not your hit points. Also have to learn to synergize with teams and be flexible in role, not always do the same thing. Sometimes I go recon, yet not to far from teammates, and always in a flanking angle of the enemy and with cover. I snipe once or twice, then move to another position, not stick to one spot and become predictable. On occasion, depending on fellow lights, form a wolfpack and hit reds who are alone and isolated. Play interference against squirrels or opposing wolfpacks, enough to chase them away from your heavier brethren or attract their attention on you so can lead them into a firing arc of a teammate. When teammates who duking it out group vs group with the enemy, I go to the sides to attempt to flank. If they all decide to focus on me, then I run like hell, zig zag behind cover, attract their attention away from my teammates, yet not to far away where I get isolated and lose support. Once you figured out how to move in your mech, then it is simply being tactful and switch up your role to fit the circumstances.

As for those who think Lights are invincible exploitative, especially with a skilled player, then I think you are also playing your heavies/assaults wrong. If you split off from your team and attempt to be solo, even in pair and such, or staying behind to fire off LRMs or Snipe, then you deserve to get pounced on by a light and backstabbed. End of the game and your one of the last surviving if not the very last? Then take advantage of terrain, back up to a wall to protect your back, take advantage of jump jets to help turn, and be patient with your shots as that light will have to at least briefly stop or go in a predictable line to have a go shot on you...and when they do, alpha striker then and there. As much as a light may be fast and a pain to hit them, it means they are equally having trouble hitting you.

One thing I would like to see with lights though, is have repeating scouting reward instead of simply first lock, and expand the spotting assist reward to include direct teammate attacks along with missile hits. If we can encourage light players to play supportive roles instead of feeling like they need to straight up dish out dmg, then improve game play while encourage team work.

[Mekwarrior]

Game after game the closest thing to a light to be seen in a shadow cat.

[Mystere]

MrMadguy, on 19 July 2016 - 12:59 AM, said:

Lights can be used as scouts, cappers and supporters.

The problem is those come with terrible payouts.