Marack Drock the Unicorn Wizard, on 25 July 2016 - 02:05 AM, said:
Karl said earlier that you could refrain from voting you'd probably just get questioned for it. And again were they holding guns to people's heads saying "Sie stimmen!"? Um no... You did have a choice. Like I said you wouldn't like the consequences for said choice but you DID HAVE ONE.
Again, it was not a "vote" per se, it was an acknowledgement of a predefined list of names. There was no opposition you could vote on. And if you didn't show up for the "vote", you became highly suspicious and had to fear being interrogated by the Stasi. The same was true if you tried to use a booth to cast your vote secretly. And believe me, you didn't want this. And even though nearly everyone succumbed to the pressure, they also rigged the votes to reach almost 100% every year. In 1986, there was a voter participation of 99,74 %, with 99,94 % of the people voting "yes". You can't get such numbers in a democracy. Just beleive me/us, it was no democracy. It is no shame to admit when you are wrong. I am an historian myself, but that wouldn't even be necessary - we Germans are educated on this from being a child until we leave school. But if you still don't believe it, read some literature on the topic, I can recommend you some titles if you want. But please don't insist on something obviously being wrong.
Marack Drock the Unicorn Wizard, on 25 July 2016 - 02:05 AM, said:
World War 1 was caused by the assassination of Ferdinand of Austria (what is most widely regarded as the foremost cause) which prompted all of the Central Powers to declare war at once. Basically it was Germany and all its allies declaring war at once because a prince got pumped full of lead.
If you know this (still pretty simpliflied though, WW1 was triggered by Ferdinand's death, not caused, it would most likely have happend anyway), then why do you basically say that Germany caused the war? Russia for example played a major role in the run-up and actively worked on setting Europe up for a war to secure its access to the Turkish Straits. France also had a great interest in war. In fact, Germany tried to prevent the war until the last possible moment, begging Austrian and Russian officials to intervene up until before the declaration of war.
Marack Drock the Unicorn Wizard, on 25 July 2016 - 02:05 AM, said:
And World War II happened because of a giant reform led by the {Godwin's Law} party which led to the rise of {Godwin's Law} as the leader of Germany by an almost unanimous vote by the populace. The {Godwin's Law} party gained popularity and such because Germany was in a financial hole because they had to pay off the debt of World War I. They were not checked by the rest of the world. They were paying off the rest of the world for helping cause the deaths of 16 million people. They were not checked really. They were bankrupt and destitute and desperate for a huge change in society. {Godwin's Law} was a charismatic leader. Hell I have watched videos and such of his speeches and it is honestly not hard to see why people followed him. Anyways World War II was started by a chain of events... all pretty much lying with Germany's fault.
And thanks for the suggestion on the book. I will pick that up soon, been needing something good to read lately.
Yes, Germany (or rather its people) were at fault, but in many points you can't blame them for it. AH and his party could only rise to power because of the great depression at that time, which was caused mainly by the harsh punishment inflicted upon the losers of WW1 by the winning nations. The allies learned from this and did it the other way round after WW2 - if the Entente had acted like this after 1918, there wouldn't have been a war like this most likely (but a war nonetheless because of the irreconcilable ideologies at that time). As hyperbolic as it may sound, but what you guys are doing with Trump right now shows perfectly how AH could rise to power. If the populace has problems and lives in (sometimes fake) fear, it's easy to elect and follow a charismatic leader who promises solutions. (Btw no attack on you guys, we also have a huge surge in votes for right-wing parties over here because people are just dumb and don't care to think about the consequences their vote may have - same with France.)
There were a lot of reasons and people to blame for WW1, not only Germany. And in effect there were a lot of reasons and people to blame for WW2, which basically was a follow-up to WW1. Blaming only Germany for one or two of them is not only short-sighted, but just provable wrong. And I am not saying this as a German myself (I know how f*cked up our country was in the past and I still blame our people for following the national socialists), I am saying this as a historian who did a lot of research on the topic, not only by scientifc literature but also on the actual sources still available.
Edited by RedDragon, 25 July 2016 - 02:53 AM.