869 replies to this topic

[Kmieciu]

The whole concept of maps with 2-3 attack lanes and bottlenecks at the gates is flawed and unfit for mechwarrior game.
Mechwarrior makes for a very poor corridor shooter. You want to see good map design, check out new Frozen City. It is viable for all sorts of mech builds: both long and short range.

That's why I don't play Invasion / Counter Attack anymore. I got my share of mechbays. I'd rather pay for MC rather than play this meat grinder.

[Wulfen]

Count Zero 74, on 24 July 2016 - 09:58 AM, said:

Just LoL, open area fights? Build diversity? Never new what style od fight?

You want to know what style of fights you will get on open area maps? Long range camp fests, period.

Well, I know from watching a bunch of Invasion videos just how fun, amazing and diverse the current set-up is. I didn't realize that open-space long-range camp fests shouldn't exist as an option. I didn't realize that no Battletech battle was ever fought on a desert, or an icy tundra. Why engage a different play-style when all you want to do is brawl, right?

[AngelusDD]

i want to add something which is important for me (maybe only for me).

A. FP needs to be fun in the actual mech combat which means: less repetetive, less boring (as stated in countless posts above)

B. FP needs to have an incentive to play. that may be better or more rewards. but that can also be more immersion via the inclusion of more lore elements (by which i dont mean simple fluff texts, but game elements in accordance to the BT background)


While A is a necessary condition, only with B it would be sufficient condition!

Which means: sufficient for me to engage in FP and thus MWO in the long-term

( forgive me the not entirely correct use of formal terminology from logic )

Edited by AngelusDD, 26 July 2016 - 11:42 PM.

[Wulfen]

Full admission: I came back maybe a month ago, after trying what I considered a pretty disastrous beta and early launch. My views won't be the same as someone who has played FP for the past year. I respect that. Hopefully you will respect my opinion as well.

I've been reading the forums heavily since I came back to give the game another shot. Someone earlier in this thread asked why Puggers should matter when it came to FP, since they wouldn't play it anyway.

I'd LOVE to do FP. And then I read posts and threads about FP, and what a cesspool it currently is. I read about required dropdecks, mostly consisting of the same 4-5 mechs. Or even scouting FP, where it's not even about scouting; it's just another glorified TDM, with the same recommended/required mechs.

I have, on several occasions, almost hit that Scouting button when I see factions looking for assistance. In the end I don't, because I don't want to be restricted to Griffins or Hunchbacks or Stormcrows. I'm primarily a light pilot, but I get the impression the lights I pilot aren't the scouts they're looking for.

The drop decks as they are don't work for me. I don't want to be forced into a heavy or an assault. On the other hand, I don't want to tick off a team that expects 3 Thunderbolts and a Blackjack, or whatever.

So, those are my main points: mech diversity, role diversity, and map diversity.

And I absolutely agree with other posters that have mentioned the lore side of things. These systems and planets have to mean something. That faction tag that you're wearing has to mean something. I fell in love with the Battletech universe way back in like 1990. I'd love to feel like I was a part of that, even in some small way.

Edited by Wulfen, 26 July 2016 - 11:53 PM.

[VoodooLou Kerensky]

Played TT (I missed out on owning battle droids by not buying it when It saw in Europe[Air force brat ]and when I saw it in New Mexico 3 months later it was BattleTech[Armed Forces Europe Exchange Service book stores were notorious for things like that sneakin thru recalls.)and RPG, But only spending a year doesnt give you alot of time to find gamers who could get their heads around it, being used to DnD and not wanting to try Stompy fighty robots cause I was the one who min maxed his mech ect actually getting into it and dumb enough to show it mercilessly to others who didnt get it at 16.
Played the Amiga Version of Crescent Hawks Inception on my C-64 and Crescent Hawks Revenge too.
Didnt get back to TT/RPG till Navy at 21 but wasnt just BTech, Paranoia,Cyberpunk,ShadowRun,GURPS Lot of time spent afloat between work n watches with nothing to do and the minitures didnt get used at sea but for when we were in the states for 6 months. 4 years of that, good and bad times/
Lil Bit of GEnie's solaris and AoL's too before MW2 and NetMech (dos via Kali not 95 thru MPlayer 95 lagged and MPig servers were the pits) and MW2 Mercenaries with the map editor that accepted files from the entire MW2 series and was used to create those 3110 Planets of the IS's with Drop settings to mimic the lore as much as posible and those maps would be accepted by NetMech which had less lag issues than MW2:Mercs did and became the Ladders and Leagues. So yeah.

Stormbringer13, on 26 July 2016 - 11:32 AM, said:

Dial Up? Hell, I did it with paper, pencil and DICE for Kerensky's sake

[50 50]

@Wulfen
That's a pretty good point about the mechs.
This almost seems to be a requirement, which while it isn't forced on you, you can cop some flak for not taking an optimized drop deck with particular mechs with particular loadouts. It's another factor as to why Faction play is not as much fun for many players. It's another sense or example of being limited in what we can or want to do and it shouldn't be like that.

I actually feel that this is partially a symptom of the design of the maps but it's also the competitive nature of the players, the game overall and it is a lot easier to co-ordinate as a team if everyone runs the same mechs..... just a bit dull.... and repetitive.

I would encourage you to give scouting a go. It plays very differently to the other modes and there is definitely a place for lighter and faster mechs and more than one way to play.

It would be nice to use more elements of the lore to build up the universe so there is a bit of story to it and hopefully we may see more of this and feel a bit more immersion at some point but it will need to fit into the MWO way to lift it up and not be the chains that hold it down. Faction Play was always meant to be our story, the way we make it.... we just need to be allowed to do it.

[Maruku Meshima]

sorry for my english;->
1. a attacker/defender know the battlefield he will attack/defend. so the mech they chosen are made for this target areas.
so let us know first on which map we will drop to prepare our Mech fitting for this areas. that include access to the mechlab before dropping.
2. only 10min wait for opponent and 10min to fit your dropdeck.(a ready button like groupplay will let the opponent know you are ready. so if he is ready the Game can begin before the 10min ends)
3. Long tom shot only 3 time in a Drop. access and control over the long tom has the Dropleader. he can target the long tom with the Map. so he can see what a scout see or he can if his unit has Satellite Sweep use it to target.
4. more and variable Maps.
5. a planet that is capture is one day save unless the attacking faction/unit will pay 1500MC, second day 1250MC, third day 1000MC, fourth day 500MC, day five 100MC. from the six day the planet is open for new Invasions without MC. ;->
my two cent;->

[Hunka Junk]

Dear Tom Bambadil,

Now at 30+ pages, can I ask exactly how you intend to take notes about it?

What I'm really suggesting here is that this gets treated like a qualitative data set. Just as someone doing marketing (or social science) research handles focus group interview transcripts, the info here should be coded out for the purposes of analysis.

Using the long tom as an example:

92 different players commented on the long tom, with 87 saying it should be removed and 5 saying that it should be further altered but kept in the game.

The above is better than "The community has said a lot of negative things about the long tom."

If you've never done something like that, then someone on e-lancer, fiverr or some such could be hired to crunch the data for you. It might cost some money, but it would be the professional thing to do.

Presenting the results of such data collection and analysis would also go a long way toward giving people the sense that they have been heard. Presenting the results of such data would also be a way to acknowledge that you listened to things that may be more appropriate for later roundtables.

What I mean by that is the initial invitation to comment did not stipulate you wanted only feedback about "the bigger things" (queues, buckets, etc...). As such, if you only take notes about those things and just shrug off the rest of what's been said here, that is not going to go over very well with all of the people who bothered to respond. It seems that there is a history of that happening with earlier feedback sessions. Now would be a fine time to change that perception.

The whole mechosphere is watching.

So please take and present your notes carefully and thoughtfully.

[Johnny Z]

Hunka Junk, on 27 July 2016 - 01:28 AM, said:

Dear Tom Bambadil,

Now at 30+ pages, can I ask exactly how you intend to take notes about it?

What I'm really suggesting here is that this gets treated like a qualitative data set. Just as someone doing marketing (or social science) research handles focus group interview transcripts, the info here should be coded out for the purposes of analysis.

Using the long tom as an example:

92 different players commented on the long tom, with 87 saying it should be removed and 5 saying that it should be further altered but kept in the game.

The above is better than "The community has said a lot of negative things about the long tom."

If you've never done something like that, then someone on e-lancer, fiverr or some such could be hired to crunch the data for you. It might cost some money, but it would be the professional thing to do.

Presenting the results of such data collection and analysis would also go a long way toward giving people the sense that they have been heard. Presenting the results of such data would also be a way to acknowledge that you listened to things that may be more appropriate for later roundtables.

What I mean by that is the initial invitation to comment did not stipulate you wanted only feedback about "the bigger things" (queues, buckets, etc...). As such, if you only take notes about those things and just shrug off the rest of what's been said here, that is not going to go over very well with all of the people who bothered to respond. It seems that there is a history of that happening with earlier feedback sessions. Now would be a fine time to change that perception.

The whole mechosphere is watching.

So please take and present your notes carefully and thoughtfully.

Worthless. This above statement is about as accurate as anyones guess as to how many alts have replied here.

Edited by Johnny Z, 27 July 2016 - 01:38 AM.

[Hunka Junk]

Johnny Z, on 27 July 2016 - 01:36 AM, said:

Worthless. This above statement is about as accurate as anyones guess as to how many alts have replied here.

Worthless because you think presenting all the commentary here as a qualitative data set is bad or because you think no one will listen anyway?

Ignore the above (you added to your previous message while I was writing this one).

While it's possible that alts might skew the data, how many alts can one person have? Up to now, do you think someone who dislikes the long tom got on this thread, wrote bad things about it, and then logged onto one or more other accounts to post the same thing again and again? Moreover, this would be a far greater concern if this had been a survey sent to each player account or handled in some other way like a poll.

I acknowledge your concern, but I still see worth in the original proposition.

Edited by Hunka Junk, 27 July 2016 - 01:48 AM.

[Johnny Z]

Hunka Junk, on 27 July 2016 - 01:39 AM, said:

Worthless because you think presenting all the commentary here as a qualitative data set is bad or because you think no one will listen anyway?

I'm sure getting to the heart of the matter is one of the most important goals of this topic, but relying on any sort of data you mentioned is worthless sorry to say.

To many alts. To much white noise or what ever its called by competitors or who ever else.

I honestly don't envy who ever is figuring this out, luckily I am sure they are getting paid. Hopefully enough.

Personally I'm not even sure all the goals of this topic, but it does have to do with making faction play be fun, in simple terms.

Only a lot of different players can communicate that.

In concept an inter galactic war between ancient houses and returning clans sounds amazing. How do they get it right and not spend a ton of money on the wrong things.

Edited by Johnny Z, 27 July 2016 - 01:59 AM.

[T I N M A N]

Boys, I know for a fact Bombadil as a person cares very much about FP and is mod on this forum because of that care. I do not doubts about his methods of data collection and note taking because I know the level of care he has toward this topic.

I have spent a fair amount of time talking with him personally.

There is no doubt he takes into account all things said, and has a feel for how many times each has been said, in one way or another, whether by note pad, google doc, or mentally.

While I personally appreciate your care, sincerely, for proper data collection, Bombadil is a competent man. He can handle it

Edited by NightStalker97, 27 July 2016 - 01:59 AM.

[Johnny Z]

Hunka Junk, on 27 July 2016 - 01:39 AM, said:

Worthless because you think presenting all the commentary here as a qualitative data set is bad or because you think no one will listen anyway?

Ignore the above (you added to your previous message while I was writing this one).

While it's possible that alts might skew the data, how many alts can one person have? Up to now, do you think someone who dislikes the long tom got on this thread, wrote bad things about it, and then logged onto one or more other accounts to post the same thing again and again? Moreover, this would be a far greater concern if this had been a survey sent to each player account or handled in some other way like a poll.

I acknowledge your concern, but I still see worth in the original proposition.

Oh ya your right about that. Play one match anyone will tell you its way over powered. You will know yourself. Its going to for sure be changed based on that, by how much is another matter. That's easy.

The numbers you suggest are worth more for a very weak argument.

[Hunka Junk]

Johnny Z, on 27 July 2016 - 01:44 AM, said:

I'm sure getting to the heart of the matter is one of the most important goals of this topic, but relying on any sort of data you mentioned is worthless sorry to say.

To many alts. To much white noise or what ever its called by competitors or who ever else.

If this were voting in a presidential election, I'd share your concern.

NightStalker97, on 27 July 2016 - 01:50 AM, said:

Boys, I know for a fact Bombadil as a person cares very much about FP and is mod on this forum because of that care. I do not doubts about his methods of data collection and note taking because I know the level of care he has toward this topic.

I have spent a fair amount of time talking with him personally.

There is no doubt he takes into account all things said, and has a feel for how many times each has been said, in one way or another, whether by note pad, google doc, or mentally.

While I personally appreciate your care, sincerely, for proper data collection, Bombadil is a competent man. He can handle it

OK. Then, I look forward to the results.

[Johnny Z]

Hunka Junk, on 27 July 2016 - 02:08 AM, said:

If this were voting in a presidential election, I'd share your concern.



OK. Then, I look forward to the results.

Its not, its a video game for fun. But a lot cheaper than golf and takes up less realistate.

By the way a golf membership costs more than what a large portion of people make in an entire year.

Edited by Johnny Z, 27 July 2016 - 02:42 AM.

[Honiara]

Hunka Junk, on 27 July 2016 - 01:28 AM, said:

92 different players commented on the long tom, with 87 saying it should be removed and 5 saying that it should be further altered but kept in the game.

Wow, if this is true (and i'm sorry i'm not trawling 30 pages of replies to count). This is a whopping 94.6% of people who have commended on the Long Tom, that thinks Long Tom should be removed.

Someone with more time that me should work out how many people on the following Twitter thread also wants Long Tom removed My guess 90%+ https://twitter.com/...046429775663104

Edited by Honiara, 27 July 2016 - 03:57 AM.

[AnTi90d]

In the poll that I created..

http://mwomercs.com/...ce-your-opinion

62.4% (229 players) voted to have Long John Thomas removed entirely.
37.6% (138 players) voted to keep Tommy Boy, but have him nerfed.

(If you read the thread, though, almost all of the pro-Tom people were Jade Falcon gobblers..)

[Rebel Ace Fryslan]

I read allot of active players, trying to think to get a good gamplay arena.
Coming up with improve or totally new ideas to make it fun again.

It's nice to see the positive aproach.

But with all it has to be a total implementation and it has to happen quicker.
Plz do take on consulting players and rotate the group so that is diverse.


PS: Reminded myself of the ugly switch bug between invasion and scouting-mchs. And the silly dropdeck for scouting is 1 of the invasion. And we don't have 6 profiles (1 per map) for dropdecks.

[Cizjut]

-Planets are worth special resources that win the Season for the House

-Sometimes the monarchs set up objectives so the community captures it for bonuses

-CW Mechs destroyed on the battlefield need to wait two (or penalization) other deployments to be usable again, or pay the repair cost to instantly use them again. This DENTS the enemy response time, and makes them think what would they're willing to sacrifice in a time frame and what not.

-Coincidentally, those repair costs make Coffers to have some SENSE. A strong Merc Unit not only gets more contracts, but can also redeploy better and get more mechs for their rankings.

-Refueling/restocking bays on CW maps

-New CW maps: New ones that aren't based on lane chokepoints holy ****

-AI controlled defender units roaming besides turrets, like tanks, choppers and infantry. Ghost drops aren't a waste of time anymore, and investing in AI defenses COULD prove useful.

-All of this works for Solaris Arena. Units can enter the arena and win prizes until the end of the Season.

-Less queue times on the FW mode: Streamlined queues for the small community until it gets bigger.

[Drenath]

Get rid of the rigid drop size lobbies/queue times and go with a persistent open galaxy model. Something more like Planetside. Integrate a Faction option into the PUG/Solo queues that drop players near the faction action.