869 replies to this topic

[AngelusDD]

p4r4g0n, on 29 July 2016 - 12:54 AM, said:

Addressing it is critical since even the best game mode in the world is going to have a tough time retaining players if they keep getting seal clubbed the majority of the time.

that is all true, and it is correct to fix it first.
yet it still does not send the right "signal" to the players, especially those who abstain from FP or MWO as a whole, that things are gonna change in FP for the better on the longer run. it is just a first intiative.

i think time for implementing stuff is an issue that counts as much as the actual content fixed or implemented.
and this is highly underestimated.

the problem on the "time front" is, that players don´t decide between playing MWO FP or nothing, but between MWO and many other games. Players lost to other games are much harder to get back, since players are lazy. Lazy to read, lazy to switch back to games with high time consumption etc. And new games come out too.
Players are really complicated customers

So communication from the side of PGI must be much quicker and more "agressive". Presenting a strategy. Short-term, medium-term, long-term. Where the voyage is going.
Fixing 2 older problems (LT, queues) is certainly a small beginning. But just a beginning, easily to be overlooked.
One should not forget that player drain was there BEFORE those 2 issues were even implemented.
They were even implemented as "improvements" for the declining population.

At least, one of the other outcomes of the roundtable was the promise to listen to the community more, via frequent polls and dedicated suggestion threads etc.

Edited by AngelusDD, 29 July 2016 - 01:31 AM.

[Kamikaze Viking]

I feel all the talk of buckets and low population is a fixation on the symptom, not the cause.

From everyone i've spoken to its generally 2 main factors.

Map Metagame: The need to feel like you make an impact, 'Skin in the game' as someone said. Most commonly people talk about wanting to own planets that have resources and an economy, which drives some minor story.

Gameplay Improvements and Variety: Most people hate Chokepoints, Lanes and Long Tom. thousands of community suggestions on new modes.

Now. I'm all for Reducing the buckets as a temporary fix, so that people can get games fast enough. BUT if thats all they do without addressing the 2 main aspects, then the FW mode is dead.

[50 50]

The reduction in buckets doesn't necessarily need to mean reducing the number of factions, but it does need some way of managing the number of planets any one faction may have to split it's forces over.

Part of this problem is the minimum requirement to have 12 players per team for a battle to even take place.
If the minimum requirement was removed and we had a mode that allowed for it to scale up then effectively what we get is solos and small groups who begin to scout a map as larger groups form and join in to make the battle escalate into a full invasion.

When I look at the Faction Play lobby, I often see a handful of players sitting on one side on one of the planets hoping they will eventually get enough players to make a full team and that hopefully someone will jump in on the other side to allow for a drop to actual occur. Sometimes this happens, but if there is another planet where there are already enough players, everyone gravitates to that spot in the hope they will get a chance to drop... which they still may not depending on the numbers.

Plus having to rely on the match maker to sort it out.

It's simply wasting time.

But if the map/mode allowed for it, then when we jumped in and saw there were a handful of players on one of the planets and we know they are already in there doing something, Then we know that we can instantly commit our drop deck to that planet and drop in there straight away. It's a no brainer.

Should players want to queue up behind 12 others that are already deployed, then the mode should allow for that as well and suddenly we have a system which allows for multiple different players to create different waves and effectively be reinforcements into the battle. It goes from being a single battle with 12 players on each side to a battle that could involve significantly larger numbers all participating in that one conflict.

If we look at it from both ends of the scale, we are able to participate as a single solo and be able to do something all the way up to a large organised unit who may have enough members to deploy several waves into the battle.

We should alter our thinking that having a battle running with only 1 player on it is a bad thing and look at it more as a player who is paving the way for allies to come in and finish the job.

[Kinski Orlawisch]

FedCom inc finaly? Would bee nice.

[50 50]

By the way, perhaps the AI is not good enough at this stage for AI mech opponents, but it might be good enough for combined arm elements - Tanks, VTOLs and Infantry.

Spending unit coffers or MC or whatever to add in some basic defences in the battles could be an option.

[Colonel ONeill]

Fixing the queue/bucket problem is NOT the way to make CW intresting for most of the players! It is part of it, yes. But even if you gonna get a game after waiting 5min, the game will still be boring and crappy onesided!

The gamemode itself needs changes/additions to be intresting. PGI does not understand that

Sorry to say, but that roundtable was a bit wasted time.

Edited by Colonel ONeill, 29 July 2016 - 03:45 AM.

[Bud Crue]

Just finished listening. Dear god, 40 minutes in and they said NOTHING. Then all buckets all the time until the break. Huh, I have a sneaky suspicion that combining the "buckets" (oh boy) is the big fix that we are getting.

As to the rest, nice lip service to player contribution. A few players who clearly were nervous and/or not sure what they were doing there were nice points of humor near the end. Those few who mentioned role play/ lore aspects of factions and were met with uncomfortable silence, that sort of summed up the whole bias of "this is a meeting for mercs and we want to discuss those things that affect us" vibe I got during the whole show. Finally when Pat Kell et al detailed all the problems with Long Tom and Russ was like "well those are good points but LT needs to do damage and be important, sooo..." (not a quote I am attempting to illustrate the summarize his comments as well as the vibe/attitude that came across) made it clear to me that a Long Tom fix or rework isn't coming any time soon if ever.

By the way, where did the summation thread that Derek started go. Was reading it just a moment a go and now I can't find it.

[Col Skaza]

Pat Kell, on 28 July 2016 - 10:52 PM, said:

I think if they don't look at ways to improve the game mode as a part of the total solution, we will continue to slide

Exactly same thought occured to me. Bucket-discussion seemed limited to fixing problem "as is", without taking a look at underlying problem:
Question "Why we dont have enough population to fill buckets we have?" was not part of discussion (In the part I was listening to).

I liked "Tug of War" idea. It could be made even bigger, instead of 2 planets being contested, it could be whole area, thats being fought over (3, 4, 5 even 6 stars), and when side wins planet tags are awarded to all Units on the "leaderboard" for that fight. And fight lasts for several days at least.
One more thing on "Tug of War": War planning affects war planning.
Example:
We are half way through todays voting.
- Majority of Wolves vote FRR.
- Majority of Steiner vote Wolf.
- Majority of FRR Vote Wolf. -
- Majority of CJF vote Steiner.
Now: Steiner pilots see that Wolv is not focusing on them. Steiner sees, that CJF is focusing on them, and, at least in theory, changes war planning in favour of CJF.
Even could go as far as "rigging" voting, by adding 10-20% Steiner votes in favour of CJF.

Jumping Queue:
I didnt like it at first, sounded like creating separated "Compqueue", but with it being optional (as in: Group jumps que if another priority group shows up) might be kinda of a solution to "seal clubbing", and therefore to population shrinkage.

One thing that I didnt hear, while I was on, was question of changing one of worst mechanics of CW:
Winning battles and flipping planets by controlling territory. Battles are not, were not and will not be ever won by side having more territory. Battles are won by side having more strength.

Each side have number of Force Tokens at the beginning of planetary contest. Loosing a battle means, that side lost Token. Once Tokens are depleted, battle is over.

This could be nicely incorporated into "Tug of War" and "Jumping Que" mechanics.

[Terrastras Rex]

Colonel ONeill, on 29 July 2016 - 03:41 AM, said:

Fixing the queue/bucket problem is NOT the way to make CW intresting for most of the players! It is part of it, yes. But even if you gonna get a game after waiting 5min, the game will still be boring and crappy onesided!

The gamemode itself needs changes/additions to be intresting. PGI does not understand that

Sorry to say, but that roundtable was a bit wasted time.

Thanks for saving me the time of having to listen to it.

I guess the 12man vs pugs stomps will continue. =X

My suggestions on page5 of this thread got 10+ likes.. none of them were brought up?

I only recognized Pat Kell and Jman5 of all the people on the roundtable. Do the rest even FP?

[AnTi90d]

Bud Crue, on 29 July 2016 - 03:58 AM, said:

By the way, where did the summation thread that Derek started go. Was reading it just a moment a go and now I can't find it.

http://mwomercs.com/...on-in-progress/

There's also

https://www.reddit.c...d3x&sh=93cd2717

and

https://www.reddit.c...r60&sh=5adea3f9

Terrastras Rex, on 29 July 2016 - 04:05 AM, said:

My suggestions on page5 of this thread got 10+ likes.. none of them were brought up?

Everyone's suggestions were ignored. This meeting wasn't a meeting, it was a sales pitch to the community.

The tug of war idea might sound good.. but it directly screws over low population factions.

Edited by AnTi90d, 29 July 2016 - 04:10 AM.

[Bud Crue]

AnTi90d, on 29 July 2016 - 04:07 AM, said:

http://mwomercs.com/...on-in-progress/

There's also

https://www.reddit.c...d3x&sh=93cd2717

and

https://www.reddit.c...r60&sh=5adea3f9

Thanks!

[TheLuc]

The round table was a town hall with a different name, will it change some thing ? Nope it wont change a thing as Faction Play will still be a ghost town, most players that are left been here for a few years and are burnt out.

When there is more action in forums than the actual game, when top players have like 4k posts on forums instead of playing, when the community is getting features that they didn't asked for and when the newest Mech to come out becomes a running joke ala `` do you want to buy a Mech pack ? `` there is some thing really wrong on the side of the Dev.

The meeting was a waste of time and I will stick to QP, no FP for my crew and I, unless it becomes what its suppose to which under Russ wont happen.

Russ stick to what he wants and nothing else, once he is stuck playing alone maybe he will add PvE.

Edited by TheLuc, 29 July 2016 - 04:28 AM.

[justcallme A S H]

Kamikaze Viking, on 29 July 2016 - 01:31 AM, said:

I feel all the talk of buckets and low population is a fixation on the symptom, not the cause.

Absolutely it is.

But in the near term of say, 4-8 weeks as it should be a relatively easy thing to code and test - what other solution is there that is as quick/deliverable?

There must be some sorta quick win to try and at least get a percentage of people playing again. Then move to the longer term, as the bigger changes and what phase 3 should have been - is a 6 month+ affair.

[AnTi90d]

TheLuc, on 29 July 2016 - 04:23 AM, said:

The round table was a town hall with a different name, will it change some thing ? Nope it wont change a thing as Faction Play will still be a ghost town, most players that are left been here for a few years and are burnt out.

Russ stick to what he wants and nothing else, once he is stuck playing alone maybe he will add PvE.

I think the changes will change FP.. rather, it will reduce people willing to play FP.

Combining factions would remove faction flavor and alienate real loyalists.

If factions aren't combined and rather allied, Russ will remove one faction's ability to have their own queue. He's dead set on reducing the number of queues.. or.. as he calls them.. buckets.. Are loyalists going to play FP if they aren't allowed to fight for their faction?..

It's all good changes for MerSenaries.. who made up most of the roundtable. (3 of the guys were from one MerSenary group.)

[TheLuc]

AnTi90d, on 29 July 2016 - 04:33 AM, said:

I think the changes will change FP.. rather, it will reduce people willing to play FP.

Combining factions would remove faction flavor and alienate real loyalists.

If factions aren't combined and rather allied, Russ will remove one faction's ability to have their own queue. He's dead set on reducing the number of queues.. or.. as he calls them.. buckets.. Are loyalists going to play FP if they aren't allowed to fight for their faction?..

It's all good changes for MerSenaries.. who made up most of the roundtable. (3 of the guys were from one MerSenary group.)

Well Russ did tell a few years back that all players were Mercs ( I should have noticed that the game was not titled appropriately from the start and take it as a warning sign ) So he sticks to that forcing players to play as he wants it. May I remind those how reads this that also Russ told that players didn't know what is best for the game, he also did a comment about players that was rather negative. To add is that guys from NGNG did tell that the community didn't know head from tail about FP and had no idea what it wanted. This show how much important the players are. In the end what ever change we ask for just wont happen.

Reducing numbers of buckets as Russ calls it will reduce wait time but as you wrote it will have no effect than reducing number of players even more as the game play will remain same, a flavorless skirmish.

Why I stick around ? to have my Mech fix once in a while in QP ( 2-3 match in the week ) Alex and the 3D modellers team do a fantastic job and the Battletech Mechs, otherwise that there is no reason.

Cant wait for the HBS Battletech game, at least Jordan Wisemann wont screw up is own franchise.

Edited by TheLuc, 29 July 2016 - 05:16 AM.

[LordLosh]

I don't think the 30 plus pages of ideas mentioned buckets at all! We wanted fixes and depth! Yet again nobody cares or listens at all. I pray and hope all the ideas and suggestions are given to the delevopers so they can at least look over what they could have done.
Yeah get me more boring one sided matchs that's what we all want thanks Russ

[Malleus011]

Make CW drops FUN and the BUCKETS will fill THEMSELVES.

[TheLuc]

Malleus011, on 29 July 2016 - 05:04 AM, said:

Make CW drops FUN and the BUCKETS will fill THEMSELVES.

Voila !!!!

[Wulfen]

Malleus011, on 29 July 2016 - 05:04 AM, said:

Make CW drops FUN and the BUCKETS will fill THEMSELVES.

This was said, ad nauseum, in the chat last night. I think they gave it a passing nod in a mumbled response, but that was it. I could tell from the opening statements that Russ and crew had already made up their minds on how to 'fix' FP.

[Kael Posavatz]

The queue-thing presents something straightforward and actionable that PGI can address to show that it is serious about listening to community ideas to improve the game.

The Wednesday pre-round-table round-table went on for over six hours and tried to address many of the other points. The one thing I got from the parts I listened to were that a lot of other issues are inter-related. One thing affects others in ways unintended and strange, and actively addressing them is likely to take a great deal of time and effort and is unlikely to be accomplished quickly.