100 replies to this topic

[Summon3r]

kf envy, on 25 July 2016 - 05:08 PM, said:

a mech pack??



you ask why im not buying a mech pack? because i want more stuff then just more mechs, how about more maps, fixing bugs, remove the bandaide ghost heat and put an a non badaide heat system.

i can keep going on but i dont want to post 3 pages worth of texts

its not that im not buying, its that im NEVER buying............. minimally viable product.

[1453 R]

The people doing 'Mech pack work are not, and cannot be, the same people doing 'Features' work.

'Mech packs are how Piranha funds stuff like new maps/map beautification, new features development, and more work done in the black hole that is Faction Play.

By all means, vote with your wallet if you don't like the game - but don't expect that not buying 'Mech packs will suddenly mean Piranha has more time/money/inclination to work on 'Features'. The Features team is already doing whatever it can with whatever Russ tells it to do. The 'Mech team doesn't have the right skillset to also be the Features team; no amount of "NO MONEY UNTIL WE GET CONTENT!" will let Piranha shift 'Mech team people to the Features team or vice-versa.

If you don't want to drop money on MWO, that is strictly and entirely your business and I will not stand in your way. Just keep in mind what that decision actually entails, rather than clinging to some pipe dream that not buying 'Mech packs somehow results in faster features development.

Quite the opposite, in fact.

[Agent1190]

Narcissistic Martyr, on 26 July 2016 - 09:28 AM, said:

People who like the new plan are those who don't play lights or mediums as the heavy and assaults were only in the top tier packs before.

I'm not qualified enough to understand how you could reasonably determine this...

The only thing the new mech-release system hasn't figured out is light Mechs. The Urbanmech doesn't count - that was a niche-mech that had a lot on demand behind it to make it "successful." Light Mechs tend to have low CBill cost, making them easy to earn in game. $15 is also too much for a hero model, it doesn't cost $15 in MC to purchase most light heros. I see packages being the only way to monetize light mechs. The Wasp and Stinger could be the perfect test bed if they offered them together.

Edited by Agent1190, 26 July 2016 - 03:42 PM.

[Kargush]

We get it, you vape.

[Moldur]

1453 R, on 26 July 2016 - 03:32 PM, said:

The people doing 'Mech pack work are not, and cannot be, the same people doing 'Features' work.

'Mech packs are how Piranha funds stuff like new maps/map beautification, new features development, and more work done in the black hole that is Faction Play.

By all means, vote with your wallet if you don't like the game - but don't expect that not buying 'Mech packs will suddenly mean Piranha has more time/money/inclination to work on 'Features'. The Features team is already doing whatever it can with whatever Russ tells it to do. The 'Mech team doesn't have the right skillset to also be the Features team; no amount of "NO MONEY UNTIL WE GET CONTENT!" will let Piranha shift 'Mech team people to the Features team or vice-versa.

If you don't want to drop money on MWO, that is strictly and entirely your business and I will not stand in your way. Just keep in mind what that decision actually entails, rather than clinging to some pipe dream that not buying 'Mech packs somehow results in faster features development.

Quite the opposite, in fact.

PGI is allowed to fire and hire people. All the buckets are poured from the same well, and I should hope that PGI is small enough that they can restructure and allocate resources more efficiently than the government.

If people don't buy mech packs, then PGI will stop trying to sell us so many mech packs, or they can continue to try until they fold. It is whether or not they are a good business, really.

[KHETTI]

Weeeeeeee, buy MC packages and get free caches & keys and sh!t, no thanks, just left my unit, that should tell you something PeeGeeEye.

[1453 R]

Moldur, on 26 July 2016 - 04:20 PM, said:

PGI is allowed to fire and hire people. All the buckets are poured from the same well, and I should hope that PGI is small enough that they can restructure and allocate resources more efficiently than the government.

If people don't buy mech packs, then PGI will stop trying to sell us so many mech packs, or they can continue to try until they fold. It is whether or not they are a good business, really.

If they stop trying to sell 'Mech packs, it's because they're going to try and sell something else.

Pro Tip, MWO Playerbase: They have to sell something.

They're a business, full of people who like to eat and wear clothes and drive cars and own houses and stuff. They do so by making a game people want to play, and hoping people like it enough to pay for some stuff in it. They clearly can't sell "purely cosmetic microtransactions"; every time they try and sell paint schemes or cockpit swag or deckles or anything else, the playerbase EXPLODES WITH FURY™ over how insane/outlandish/larcenous the prices are. Even nine-cent Cache keys or one-dollar deckles are somehow extortionistic, while "Would you like to buy a mech pack?" has become a disgusting forum meme encapsulating this insane notion that somehow starving the company of money will make them do what you want.

Piranha. Has. To. Sell. SOMETHING. If MWO isn't selling anymore, then guess what? It dies. And we likely never get another first-person, real-time MechWarrior game because this is the property whose player base is then known in the industry for actively and deliberately killing its own games.

Let me put it this way. What would you rather buy? Do not say "PvE", "Better Faction Play", or "Moar Immurzun" - those are things we all know full bloody well have to be included as free game updates or the player base would be broken beyond viability until they were released for free.

What would you spend money on, if it wasn't 'Mech packs? If the answer is "Nothing, until I get PvE, Better Faction Play, and Moar Immurzun", then please allow me to show you to the exit. Someone will give you a holler when it's time for you to do your part to pay for the things you want in MWO again.

[Baulven]

1453 R, on 26 July 2016 - 04:54 PM, said:

If they stop trying to sell 'Mech packs, it's because they're going to try and sell something else.

Pro Tip, MWO Playerbase: They have to sell something.

They're a business, full of people who like to eat and wear clothes and drive cars and own houses and stuff. They do so by making a game people want to play, and hoping people like it enough to pay for some stuff in it. They clearly can't sell "purely cosmetic microtransactions"; every time they try and sell paint schemes or cockpit swag or deckles or anything else, the playerbase EXPLODES WITH FURY™ over how insane/outlandish/larcenous the prices are. Even nine-cent Cache keys or one-dollar deckles are somehow extortionistic, while "Would you like to buy a mech pack?" has become a disgusting forum meme encapsulating this insane notion that somehow starving the company of money will make them do what you want.

Piranha. Has. To. Sell. SOMETHING. If MWO isn't selling anymore, then guess what? It dies. And we likely never get another first-person, real-time MechWarrior game because this is the property whose player base is then known in the industry for actively and deliberately killing its own games.

Let me put it this way. What would you rather buy? Do not say "PvE", "Better Faction Play", or "Moar Immurzun" - those are things we all know full bloody well have to be included as free game updates or the player base would be broken beyond viability until they were released for free.

What would you spend money on, if it wasn't 'Mech packs? If the answer is "Nothing, until I get PvE, Better Faction Play, and Moar Immurzun", then please allow me to show you to the exit. Someone will give you a holler when it's time for you to do your part to pay for the things you want in MWO again.

I'm still not changing my sig.

[1453 R]

Good for you. People should absolutely be allowed to vote with their wallet.

The rest of us will buy whatever we feel like. Including 'Mech packs. Trust me, as bad as Piranha's monetization is (and it's pretty bad overall), we can all name a dozen examples off the tops of our heads of how it could be infinitely worse.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Agent1190, on 26 July 2016 - 03:39 PM, said:

I'm not qualified enough to understand how you could reasonably determine this...

The only thing the new mech-release system hasn't figured out is light Mechs. The Urbanmech doesn't count - that was a niche-mech that had a lot on demand behind it to make it "successful." Light Mechs tend to have low CBill cost, making them easy to earn in game. $15 is also too much for a hero model, it doesn't cost $15 in MC to purchase most light heros. I see packages being the only way to monetize light mechs. The Wasp and Stinger could be the perfect test bed if they offered them together.

In short, it's now cheaper for people who don't like lights or mediums to purchase the mechs they do like. That's all I'm trying to say.

[Baulven]

1453 R, on 26 July 2016 - 05:26 PM, said:

Good for you. People should absolutely be allowed to vote with their wallet.

The rest of us will buy whatever we feel like. Including 'Mech packs. Trust me, as bad as Piranha's monetization is (and it's pretty bad overall), we can all name a dozen examples off the tops of our heads of how it could be infinitely worse.

I was being snarky. I understand businesses need revenue, but there is a difference from getting revenue and making changes to get more players and getting revenue while in a holding pattern with minimal changes so people think we are doing something. I have been here long enough (since april) to see that no real changes have occurred and are unlikely to occur. You know who else has a small *** studio? The guys making subnautica, and they can actually get monthly sizable fixes and patches out. I would love to toss money at MW, MW2 was a game I enjoyed a lot and I have the nostalgia. Every single time I have considered opening my wallet they do something that snaps it shut faster than a clam.

Edited by Baulven, 27 July 2016 - 05:55 AM.

[Variant1]

Moldur, on 26 July 2016 - 04:20 PM, said:

PGI is allowed to fire and hire people. All the buckets are poured from the same well, and I should hope that PGI is small enough that they can restructure and allocate resources more efficiently than the government.

If people don't buy mech packs, then PGI will stop trying to sell us so many mech packs, or they can continue to try until they fold. It is whether or not they are a good business, really.

Ok lest say pgi stoped selling mech packs. What would they then sell? because mech packs and skins are cosmetic and dont affect gameplay. So are you saying then that it would be better to start selling maps? because then that would create player division since those who havent bought it wont be able to play it. Do you have any other alternatives that pgi can sell that wont make the game p2w? I think right now mechs are the only way right now for them to sell without compromising game balance.

Edited by Variant1, 27 July 2016 - 06:41 AM.

[davoodoo]

1453 R, on 26 July 2016 - 03:32 PM, said:

The people doing 'Mech pack work are not, and cannot be, the same people doing 'Features' work.

'Mech packs are how Piranha funds stuff like new maps/map beautification, new features development, and more work done in the black hole that is Faction Play.

By all means, vote with your wallet if you don't like the game - but don't expect that not buying 'Mech packs will suddenly mean Piranha has more time/money/inclination to work on 'Features'. The Features team is already doing whatever it can with whatever Russ tells it to do. The 'Mech team doesn't have the right skillset to also be the Features team; no amount of "NO MONEY UNTIL WE GET CONTENT!" will let Piranha shift 'Mech team people to the Features team or vice-versa.

If you don't want to drop money on MWO, that is strictly and entirely your business and I will not stand in your way. Just keep in mind what that decision actually entails, rather than clinging to some pipe dream that not buying 'Mech packs somehow results in faster features development.

Quite the opposite, in fact.

While mech design isnt map design, the same artist can work on textures for a mech or textures for a map. Even with 3d models there are things to be added to maps.
Only animators cant really work on both.

And even their "feature" team works on monetization now, hello supply caches...

But still, lets assume 1 team cant work on another thing at all.
Guess who will be 1st on chopping block in case of trouble and who will ross hire if he gets extra budget.

[Mudhutwarrior]

Can anyone explain to me how MWLL seemed to get off the ground without the level of funding PGI had?

It really doesn't take huge money to do this just a love for the game and mechs.

I am sorry but PGI has been using this as a cash cow while trying to produce other games (transverse)

They could have done better and every thinking person knows that. I have no problem supporting them if and when they decide to actually listen to the base. In my view they only have when its been a near riot and even then it was minimal at best. Russ said he knows better and I believe he thinks so. He knows better than anyone and has the paychecks to prove it.

Doesn't mean we have to accept it and buy into it.

[Cappy]

Mudhutwarrior, on 27 July 2016 - 07:35 AM, said:

Can anyone explain to me how MWLL seemed to get off the ground without the level of funding PGI had?

It really doesn't take huge money to do this just a love for the game and mechs.

I am sorry but PGI has been using this as a cash cow while trying to produce other games (transverse)

They could have done better and every thinking person knows that. I have no problem supporting them if and when they decide to actually listen to the base. In my view they only have when its been a near riot and even then it was minimal at best. Russ said he knows better and I believe he thinks so. He knows better than anyone and has the paychecks to prove it.

Doesn't mean we have to accept it and buy into it.

MWLL didn't have to pay anyone working on the game, they were modding a pre-existing game so they didn't have to pay the licensing fees for their engine (cry engine IIRC).

[Moldur]

1453 R, on 26 July 2016 - 04:54 PM, said:

If they stop trying to sell 'Mech packs, it's because they're going to try and sell something else.

Pro Tip, MWO Playerbase: They have to sell something.

They're a business, full of people who like to eat and wear clothes and drive cars and own houses and stuff. They do so by making a game people want to play, and hoping people like it enough to pay for some stuff in it. They clearly can't sell "purely cosmetic microtransactions"; every time they try and sell paint schemes or cockpit swag or deckles or anything else, the playerbase EXPLODES WITH FURY™ over how insane/outlandish/larcenous the prices are. Even nine-cent Cache keys or one-dollar deckles are somehow extortionistic, while "Would you like to buy a mech pack?" has become a disgusting forum meme encapsulating this insane notion that somehow starving the company of money will make them do what you want.

Piranha. Has. To. Sell. SOMETHING. If MWO isn't selling anymore, then guess what? It dies. And we likely never get another first-person, real-time MechWarrior game because this is the property whose player base is then known in the industry for actively and deliberately killing its own games.

Let me put it this way. What would you rather buy? Do not say "PvE", "Better Faction Play", or "Moar Immurzun" - those are things we all know full bloody well have to be included as free game updates or the player base would be broken beyond viability until they were released for free.

What would you spend money on, if it wasn't 'Mech packs? If the answer is "Nothing, until I get PvE, Better Faction Play, and Moar Immurzun", then please allow me to show you to the exit. Someone will give you a holler when it's time for you to do your part to pay for the things you want in MWO again.

Sorry, I thought that was all implied. Of course they have to sell something. No need to get heated. That is what I was alluding to with my last sentence:

Moldur, on 26 July 2016 - 04:20 PM, said:

It is whether or not they are a good business, really.

What I am saying is PGI will have to sell something people want to buy. It sounds like you and other people are saying that there is no better choice than mech packs for funding and we should be buying them or else PGI will do something bad to try and get money. Obviously mech packs are not a great means of funding if no one wants to buy them. That's the bottom line. Customers should not have to begrudgingly spend money on something they don't even want just because they have some assumed apprehension that something worse will be put out if they don't. Imagine doing that at a physical store, buying a thousand packs of gum or some equally useless item that you don't really want, just so that the store can have a bit more money. It is ridiculous. How dare we not buy mech packs? Do we have any idea what we are doing to the game?

PGI can go ahead and fail if they fail. They can sink or they can swim. They cannot fail and succeed at the same time. They cannot fail to put out anything worth buying while simultaneously meeting customer demand (as an economics term.) That is called living in Bizarro world where customers act completely irrationally and businesses just exist as long as they sell something even if it is just a bunch of packs of gum at the front counter.


*scoff scoff* "what are the alternatives for their income? BREAKING THE ******* GAME?!?"

Yeah, you know what? That is a question for PGI. Not me, not any of you. PGI can dig themselves out of their own hole that they made when they decided to keep pushing out mech packs while doing a paltry amount of work on the actual game for 4 years, work that arguably has not even made the game any better.

Edited by Moldur, 27 July 2016 - 09:01 AM.

[Cizjut]

IF the mechs were actually different with unique new systems to the chassis, new weapons, builds or at LEAST new HUD aesthethics that seemed like out of a different assembly line, completing a thematic around it, yes I would

But since every new chassis is an identical variant of an existing one, it's meh.

[EvilCow]

I have enough mechs, there is no added value in owning more. They should find a way to use all your mechs in FP by implementing garrisons or making them unavailable for a while if destroyed or some other mechanism. Currently there is no reason to own more.

Moreover, I don't need more mech bays, I already have all the colors I need, camos mean nothing because you cannot know the map in advance, I hate gambling so caches are just extra cbills, I have many months of banked premium time from previous purchases and I don't need that because I have plenty GXPs and cbills are not a problem. So, no need to buy MCs too.

In addition, I hit the top of tier 1 (and I am an average player), most my mechs have all skills and there are no more game objectives for me to reach. So, sadly, no need to play either.

I just wonder why I am sticking around here, probably just because battletech-skinned space robots.

It is like they don't want my money.

Edited by EvilCow, 27 July 2016 - 08:49 AM.

[Black Ivan]

I bought many many Mech Packs, but afer the little development MWO received despite the regular sales I stopped buying.

CW is a bad designed wasteland, Quick Play suffers from a horribe Match Maker, Hitreg issues since day 1, no real immersion into the setting and tghe kist goes on. I lost my faith that PGI uses my money effectivly to better the game.

[Besh]

EvilCow, on 27 July 2016 - 08:48 AM, said:

I have enough mechs, there is no added value in owning more. They should find a way to use all your mechs in FP by implementing garrisons or making them unavailable for a while if destroyed or some other mechanism. Currently there is no reason to own more.
[...]

Requiring any occupying Unit to have a certain amount of complete Dropdecks garrisoned on the specific planet, having those 'Mechs locked to only be able for fighthing when on that planet, and IF wanting to use them elsewhere applying some kind of traveltime delay to account for the relocation, would that make Sense for FP ?