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Community Meeting On Faction Warfare For Upcoming Round Table Discussion

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#61 AnTi90d

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Posted 26 July 2016 - 06:32 PM

View PostDaFrog, on 26 July 2016 - 04:19 PM, said:

So let me guess who's invited to the round table: Kell, Rex, maybe Theaus and Proton.
Anyone representing pugs or is it only big unit heads who have a voice ?


Instead of choosing people that are solo loyalists and freelancers, they're relegating all non-unit opinions to an open mike session after the "important people" are finished talking.

#62 MischiefSC

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Posted 26 July 2016 - 08:35 PM

Sweet. I'll be there.

#63 Mudhutwarrior

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Posted 27 July 2016 - 03:19 AM

Anytime PGI decides to actually talk to the base its always the top tryhards that get a say and then they pretty much ignore them.

Common sense would dictate that if one of the questions posed is to bring in new players they should talk to the ones who left early in their involvement. I have 30 names of everyone I got to join who left in disgust.

I am not saying to ignore the top players. They have it going on with teamplay and top level stuff but that is actually a small number in the base (well before everyone left) They need to have two discussions. Top level play and noob/casual play. We all spend money here.

#64 vocifer

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Posted 27 July 2016 - 03:33 AM

View PostMudhutwarrior, on 27 July 2016 - 03:19 AM, said:

Common sense would dictate that if one of the questions posed is to bring in new players they should talk to the ones who left early in their involvement. I have 30 names of everyone I got to join who left in disgust.

Well, the only way is to contact (or at least try to) those 30 people, get their opinions and present on todays meeting.

And remember that the topic is FP FW CW, not the whole MWO. Those people probably don't even like QP and this is a whole different issue.

#65 Johnny Z

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Posted 27 July 2016 - 03:40 AM

View PostMudhutwarrior, on 27 July 2016 - 03:19 AM, said:

Anytime PGI decides to actually talk to the base its always the top tryhards that get a say and then they pretty much ignore them.

Common sense would dictate that if one of the questions posed is to bring in new players they should talk to the ones who left early in their involvement. I have 30 names of everyone I got to join who left in disgust.

I am not saying to ignore the top players. They have it going on with teamplay and top level stuff but that is actually a small number in the base (well before everyone left) They need to have two discussions. Top level play and noob/casual play. We all spend money here.


No offense. But if your not just trolling, whats the top thing you want to see in faction play, and the worste thing in faction play. In a core kind of way.

#66 Sjorpha

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Posted 27 July 2016 - 06:11 AM

Faction play feedback

The vision, what should faction play be?

The way I pictured FW prior to release was as a strategic gameplay layer on top of the tactical battles. In my head just like there are good and bad moves and skill to win a match there would be good and bad moves to win the war on the galactic map.

I didn't expect this strategic game to be very complex, given the nature of online MMO:s and the limitations of a small developer. But I DID expect it to actually exist. I expected that we would, however primitive, have a way to outplay other factions and win the war or achieve some kind of long time strategic goals. I also expected that owning different planets would have an impact on achieving this victory or goal.

There IS no way to win. There IS no goals to achieve. And consequently taking a planet and whatever other moves you make CANNOT by definition have an impact.

From a basic game design perspective this is just a complete non-starter, you can't design a game without some kind of climax for the player to work towards. This isn't some tryhard elitist idea either, it is true for casual games as well. In single player games the endgame is about finishing the campaign, completing the story, or winning over AI. In multiplayer games the natural goal is either victory over other players or cooperation towards a single player type endgame against the AI. MMORPGs typically combine the two, but they still tend to get stuck with a "nothing left to do" feeling for long time players as they can't realistically simulate victory/loss between factions.

This in my opinion is the most pressing issue that faction warfare has, and it should be the #1 topic of discussion of the roundtable, everything else is basically secondary.

Answer the following:

What should be the endgame victory condition or goal of each faction and for clans/IS?

What should be the possible moves to achieve, counter and counter counter the strategically work towards these goals?

What should be the strategic value of planets in relation to achieving victory or endgame goals?

#67 Mawai

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Posted 27 July 2016 - 06:23 AM

View PostJohnny Z, on 27 July 2016 - 03:40 AM, said:

No offense. But if your not just trolling, whats the top thing you want to see in faction play, and the worste thing in faction play. In a core kind of way.


I realize this wasn't directed to me Posted Image ... however, I thought I could toss in an appropriate answer.

As someone who tried FP briefly and doesn't play it now ... though I keep up with reviews and opinions and have watched a few videos of the current version ... here are my biggest concerns with it in no particular order.

1) Time to get a match ... I play casually and for fun. WIth work, family and other commitments my gaming time is very circumscribed. As a result, although I could sometimes manage the longer match play times of FP, long waits to get a match in which I am doing nothing fun are a waste of my limited resources.

2) Long Tom artillery. Having a random "you are dead" button that randomly hits your forces every 2 minutes aimed at wherever your mechs are most concentrated is simply, in my opinion, a bad game mechanic. It isn't fun for either team since the ones being hit by it can't coordinate their attack properly and the ones who have it can't claim any skill in winning a match where it is a factor. As long as the Long Tom is in FP in anything like its current form, I will probably never play FP ... it just isn't the kind of random death gaming experience I am looking for.

3) Match balance. Due to limited play time constraints I am not a part of a unit. I have only grouped up a few times when playing MWO and although the experience was generally good there is added overhead in terms of time to find and organize a group and additional time waiting to drop as folks decide to change mechs or make mechlab changes. This means that when I drop in FP, I am dropping solo. In order to obtain more enjoyable matches for this demographic, the matchmaker needs to aim to have roughly the same number of solo players on each side.

Yes, it requires some matchmaker coding and I am concerned PGI may have lost the people who actually understood how it works. However, tweaks to the FP matchmaker that aimed to match group size or at least solo count on each team might go a long way to generating better matches. Team coordination is a very big factor in effectiveness. Probably more than individual player skill in general. The number of solo drops on each side significantly affects the ability of the team to coordinate ... so I would consider tweaking the matchmaker to make putting the same number of solos +/-1 on opposing teams and see how that works.

----------------------------------------

Possible SOLUTIONS:

-----------------------------------------

1) As other have said, one of the big reasons for the long wait times in FP is the fractured nature of the allegiances. Each player is aligned with a sub-faction of clans or IS. This gives a huge number of possible battles between clan vs is, is vs is and clan vs clan. Often there are insufficient players in one or another of the queues to form a match. This just results in a generally poor matchmaking situation.

In addition, spreading the available FP player base over multiple fronts and letting them choose which battle to join (is vs is, clan vs clan or clan vs is for specific factions attacking and defending) just further splits the available players.

-------------

To address this, I think you need to create "alliances" of players that can be grouped together for specific battles.

For example ... in a clan vs is battle ... any clan aligned set of players can be faced off against any is aligned set of players ... individual factions don't matter. Yes it breaks lore but it does allow for matches to form more quickly. The battle itself could be for a specific clan vs a specific IS faction but the "Call to Arms" feature would basically include anyone else in an allied faction queuing for FP at the same time. Earning or retaining control of planets would require some specific level of participation in the fight by members of the specific factions designated as attacking and defending. This would prevent one faction from gaining control of a planet on the efforts of allied factions.

The focus could be on clan vs is battles ... however, is vs is and clan vs clan are at least occasionally REQUIRED in order to balance queue numbers. Without the ability to kick off intra faction battles there is no way to manage the queue lengths for each of the opposing factions given unequal number of players queuing at any point in time.

Solutions like this should address the time to form matches at the expense of elements of the lore in terms of which sides might work together and which never would even if they were about to be over run Posted Image.

----------------------

2) Remove Long Tom. It was a bad idea. Replace it with intel or other non-combat based advantages or maybe give additional defences like turrets if a combat element is desired. Perhaps the defending team can specify where to place a limited selection of defenses or fortifications so that matches become a bit more dynamic. However, the long tom as it stands right now is a deal breaker for a lot of people.

-----------------------

3) Revise the matchmaker to put the same number of solo players +/-1 on opposing teams. This should improve matchmaking or at least give both sides similar levels of team coordination.

Edited by Mawai, 27 July 2016 - 06:25 AM.


#68 MischiefSC

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Posted 27 July 2016 - 02:00 PM

1. Combine attack/defend queue. Only 1 planet per front. Concentrates populations, eliminates pug v premade issues. Mix all modes on each world - attack, defend, counter-attack. This way you can't just rush objectives to flip a world.

2. Halve ghost drop timer to 5 minutes. Double slices, reduces wait times.

3. Vote for planet. You vote for what faction to attack and then vote for 1of 3-5 planets on the border.

4. Vote for alliances. You vote for an ally, you share borders with your ally. Allows for dynamic population concentration.

5. Remove LT. If scouting provides a definitive advatage then scouting is more important than invasion and 4man queue closes 12man queue.

6. Hiring mercs. Eliminate bonuses for mercs. Increase bonus for loyalists. Let loyalists transfer funds to merc units and create 30 day contracts to hire specific mercs for a set of bonus payouts. Being a loyalist should flat out pay more, unless you're a great merc team in demand.

#69 Mudhutwarrior

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Posted 27 July 2016 - 02:08 PM

View PostJohnny Z, on 27 July 2016 - 03:40 AM, said:

No offense. But if your not just trolling, whats the top thing you want to see in faction play, and the worste thing in faction play. In a core kind of way.


Not trolling and I am not a faction warfare player. It's really none of my business what you guys do there. I just wish you luck with it. My thing is the base is suffering and without new players it will continue to shrink. I am fine with factions getting the game they deserve and have been waiting for but without the noobs.casuals you won't be able to keep it going.

We need solid progression and if you want a university you better have good high schools behind it. This needs a two pronged approach to succeed. I am saying this even though I think its another scam like the council was.

#70 Dago Red

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Posted 27 July 2016 - 02:31 PM

View PostAnTi90d, on 26 July 2016 - 06:32 PM, said:


Instead of choosing people that are solo loyalists and freelancers, they're relegating all non-unit opinions to an open mike session after the "important people" are finished talking.



I'm saying this as a person in a unit so bias I know but how would you submit that they find leading voices among a group of the population that by it's very nature has none? Short of just grabbing people at random and hoping they're not raving madmen I'm not sure what method one would even use.

#71 Ted Wayz

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Posted 27 July 2016 - 02:43 PM

How about reading the feature suggestion or CW forums for ideas? been plenty there for years.

Always suggested they match up maps to give planets a "feel". Polar, Frozen, Alpine, Boreal etc for cold planet. You get the drift.

Suggested a tug of war format for planets with different phases using all our current game modes. Again nothing new needs to be created. End the conquest on city maps with each map equaling a sector. Nothing complicated.

Bring back salvage only for CW. Give defenders an advantage on resources.

Finally assign pugs to canon House units. Make the rewards for advancement represent the House such as level 10 Liao get a Vindicator, etc. Level 20 get a House decal etc. Add a little immersion.

The only radical feature i would suggest is this, give the ranking defending unit loyal to that planet the ability to assign drops. Give them visibility to the attack and defend queue and let them assign who defends against whom.

PGI has most of the pieces. They just need to bring them together.

#72 Davers

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Posted 27 July 2016 - 02:58 PM

View PostDago Red, on 27 July 2016 - 02:31 PM, said:



I'm saying this as a person in a unit so bias I know but how would you submit that they find leading voices among a group of the population that by it's very nature has none? Short of just grabbing people at random and hoping they're not raving madmen I'm not sure what method one would even use.

I nominate Mud. He's a raving madman, but he's our raving madman. :)

#73 Blue Pheonix

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Posted 27 July 2016 - 03:01 PM

Please talk about adding reasonable suggestions to make the light class played more and be more viable in this upcoming "round table talk".

There is talk about these reasonable ideas here: http://mwomercs.com/...weight-classes/

#74 AnTi90d

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Posted 27 July 2016 - 03:07 PM

View PostDago Red, on 27 July 2016 - 02:31 PM, said:

I'm saying this as a person in a unit so bias I know but how would you submit that they find leading voices among a group of the population that by it's very nature has none? Short of just grabbing people at random and hoping they're not raving madmen I'm not sure what method one would even use.


FP leaderboard cross referenced with people that are willing to voice their opinion on the forum or in support email.. or maybe going to faction Teamspeak hubs once or twice to find the most active people not in units.

Hell, even three solo loyalists / freelancers on the panel would have shown that they might actually give a damn about people outside of their inner circle.

A little effort and goodwill would go a long way.

As it stands now, if you're not one of Russ' precious chosen ones, you aren't allowed to have an opinion except for after the meeting is over when they let just anyone and everyone say ****.. but at that point everything will be decided, so what's the point of even opening your mouth.

Edited by AnTi90d, 27 July 2016 - 03:10 PM.


#75 Davers

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Posted 27 July 2016 - 03:16 PM

View PostAnTi90d, on 27 July 2016 - 03:07 PM, said:


FP leaderboard cross referenced with people that are willing to voice their opinion on the forum or in support email.. or maybe going to faction Teamspeak hubs once or twice to find the most active people not in units.

Hell, even three solo loyalists / freelancers on the panel would have shown that they might actually give a damn about people outside of their inner circle.

A little effort and goodwill would go a long way.

As it stands now, if you're not one of Russ' precious chosen ones, you aren't allowed to have an opinion except for after the meeting is over when they let just anyone and everyone say ****.. but at that point everything will be decided, so what's the point of even opening your mouth.

Yeah by the time the unwashed masses get to speak there will be so many people talking, contradicting each other, and bringing up a million different issues/points that it will all get crushed under it's own weight. Nothing useful will come of it, there won't be time to talk about it all, and maybe a handful of comments will be selected to talk about.

#76 Accused

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Posted 27 July 2016 - 03:39 PM

-rant-

They need to scrap the whole CW idea and start from the ground up. Instead of asking how to improve the crap they already have, instead ask what does the community actually want.

-end rant-

Solo player perspective incoming.

Wait times is the major deal breaker. If you can't drop within 5 minutes it's not going to happen. Don't give two shits if that's not realistic. Why not try 6 vs 6 / 8 vs 8 with half the timer and half the rewards?

Ghost drops need to resolved in a fraction of the time they are now.

Long Tom doesn't make sense. Endgame to infowarfare should be a planet wide UAV, planet wide jamming (ecm to all mechs), planet wide BAP, etc. Long Tom should be a single (perhaps x3) nuke used by the drop leader.

Finally CW seems too "unit" based. Everyone understands its unit endgame, however units shouldn't lead, the khans should. Have personal daily xp quests (or whatever you want to call them) so solo people can still earn.

Edited by Accused, 27 July 2016 - 03:41 PM.


#77 Mystere

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Posted 27 July 2016 - 03:49 PM

Unless PGI clearly and explicitly communicates their vision for CW, this entire thing is pointless and only a hack job will come out -- and that's assuming something does come out.

Posted Image

Edited by Mystere, 27 July 2016 - 03:50 PM.


#78 Deathlike

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Posted 27 July 2016 - 04:08 PM

I'm watching it... not that anyone needs to hear from me or anything.

#79 Davers

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Posted 27 July 2016 - 04:17 PM

View PostDeathlike, on 27 July 2016 - 04:08 PM, said:

I'm watching it... not that anyone needs to hear from me or anything.


Quiet peasant! Your betters are speaking!

#80 Johnny Z

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Posted 27 July 2016 - 04:23 PM

View PostDavers, on 27 July 2016 - 04:17 PM, said:



Quiet peasant! Your betters are speaking!


He says one nice thing and gets trolled for it.

Edited by Johnny Z, 27 July 2016 - 04:23 PM.






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