101 replies to this topic

[Ghogiel]

Mawai, on 28 July 2016 - 03:38 AM, said:

He acquired between 8 million and 16 million cbills depending on whether he just sold the items back or actually could use them.

Apparently if all you wanted was cbills for the crates and have MC to burn on keys you'd buy mechs on sale and sell them anyway.

You'd have to play a lot of matches to get 38 crates anyway. What is it over 400 matches if the odds are 1 in 12 of getting one? if you were only getting 300k per match with PT that's at least 130mil cbills and you could have sold the crates for free cbill bonus.

And if you do both of those things you probably play crap loads and have mad cbills, also just buy a mech packs for regular mechs and use your MC on hero mechs.

[JC Daxion]

Classic example of angry vets.. *sigh... Not everyone has millions banked.. Not everyone has time to play 1k's of matches.. And me personally i have played since 2013, and well over 3k matches and i could use hundreds of millions to load up mechs with XL engines and modules, and even weapons in many..


For a few bucks, you can end up getting lots of gear to use, or sell for bonus C-bills.. with a single 7 buck purchase which would get you a ton of keys, and a couple of bays to use for months..


PGI makes a little money,.,

Players that use the system pays a tiny bit of money, and gets rewarded..

People that wanna avoid it get bonus 50k a pop..

How on earth is this anything but positive for the player base is beyond me.


For the way i play, it's far better than spending money on premium outside of buying day passes for 250mc because my game play isn't consistent so buying larger blocks often ends up going un-used. Any bonus C-bills or gear for a tiny amount of MC is good for me..

Edited by JC Daxion, 28 July 2016 - 10:36 AM.

[Tyler Valentine]

Mawai, on 28 July 2016 - 03:38 AM, said:

Stuff you said

Hey, like I said, If you're spacepoor it makes sense, no need to get riled up. I had no idea people had such a difficult time making money in this game...

Edited by Tyler Valentine, 28 July 2016 - 01:41 PM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Aloha, on 27 July 2016 - 10:03 AM, said:

The difference is the so-called grand prizes costs nothing (other than the initial creative process) to PGI. I'm not expecting a grand prize every other cache, but not even a decent module out of 38 caches? Casino odds are only slightly in favor of the house, which is not the case here. People won't be going to casinos if all they'll win are coffee mugs or restaurant coupons. A more accurate analogy is the lottery. You spend a dollar for a ticket for a chance at millions.

I think this is an important point. With literally something like 400 unique mech variants in the game at average rough cost of about 12,000,000 C-bills each it would cost you literally 4,800,000,000 C-bill to own them all and that isn't taking into account the cost of modules. It would literally be a drop in the bucket if the Supply Caches gave a 1 in 8 odds of being able to score mech. If anything winning a few odd mechs here and there might encourage people to actually spend more money to buy the other two chassis they need to be able to master the one they won.

Now honestly, a 1 in 8 chance to win the mech might be a bit high but scaling the odds of winning up significantly so that if you open 20-30 supply caches your likely to win at least one prize at valued at 10 million c-bills, plus 2-3 mid range prizes like a Radar Deprivation module or something else of similar value wouldn't hurt PGI in the least.

Honestly I think this is the major problem with all the developers. Instead of always thinking about ways to eek out every penny from its players, they need to start just rewarding their players for being loyal to the game. I mean the supply caches would have been a great idea even as they are if they were free to unlock because when you were awarded one after a match it would have felt like actually winning something and have been a nice, feel good bonus for playing even if the rewards usually were crap. Alternatively it would also be a nice feel good bonus even if you have to pay 25 MC for the key IF you knew you were getting a substantial reward for doing it.

Instead we get something that feels more like a money grab than a reward. I mean don't get me wrong, the free 50k you get when selling them is better than a sharp stick in the eye but I have only won 8 crates so far and the 400k I would get for selling them won't make a dent in the 4.8 Billion C-bills I need if I collect every mech in the game. Hell it wouldn't make a dent in 480 million I would need if I only want to collect 10% of the mechs. Basically it doesn't feel like a reward at all.

Edited by Viktor Drake, 28 July 2016 - 03:15 PM.

[Mole]

Viktor Drake, on 28 July 2016 - 03:14 PM, said:

I think this is an important point. With literally something like 400 unique mech variants in the game at average rough cost of about 12,000,000 C-bills each it would cost you literally 4,800,000,000 C-bill to own them all and that isn't taking into account the cost of modules. It would literally be a drop in the bucket if the Supply Caches gave a 1 in 8 odds of being able to score mech. If anything winning a few odd mechs here and there might encourage people to actually spend more money to buy the other two chassis they need to be able to master the one they won.

Now honestly, a 1 in 8 chance to win the mech might be a bit high but scaling the odds of winning up significantly so that if you open 20-30 supply caches your likely to win at least one prize at valued at 10 million c-bills, plus 2-3 mid range prizes like a Radar Deprivation module or something else of similar value wouldn't hurt PGI in the least.

Honestly I think this is the major problem with all the developers. Instead of always thinking about ways to eek out every penny from its players, they need to start just rewarding their players for being loyal to the game. I mean the supply caches would have been a great idea even as they are if they were free to unlock because when you were awarded one after a match it would have felt like actually winning something and have been a nice, feel good bonus for playing even if the rewards usually were crap. Alternatively it would also be a nice feel good bonus even if you have to pay 25 MC for the key IF you knew you were getting a substantial reward for doing it.

Instead we get something that feels more like a money grab than a reward. I mean don't get me wrong, the free 50k you get when selling them is better than a sharp stick in the eye but I have only won 8 crates so far and the 400k I would get for selling them won't make a dent in the 4.8 Billion C-bills I need if I collect every mech in the game. Hell it wouldn't make a dent in 480 million I would need if I only want to collect 10% of the mechs. Basically it doesn't feel like a reward at all.

What it boils down to is PGI has resorted to a filthy scamming tactic to grab more money out of us and they've lost a lot of what little respect I still had for them in so doing. You wanna do something like supply caches that actually have a decent chance of giving you something good? Cool. You wanna do the same thing but make it have a 99% chance to award me with the shittiest item in the box? No. That's not gambling, that's a scam.

Edited by Mole, 28 July 2016 - 03:55 PM.

[Selous]

It is not scam. It is your choice to open or sell it for 50K extra. Just sell it and you won't be "scammed". Your choice.

[Alexandrix]

those stupid loot boxes are garbage in every single game i've ever seen them in.
the chances of actually getting anything worthwhile out of them are basically zilch.
they are a suckers bet meant to suck money out of you.
why would it be any different in mwo?

just be glad you can sell them for a decent amount of cbills.
do yourself a favor,toss them to the sell button and don't look back..

[JC Daxion]

Mole, on 28 July 2016 - 03:54 PM, said:

What it boils down to is PGI has resorted to a filthy scamming tactic to grab more money out of us and they've lost a lot of what little respect I still had for them in so doing. You wanna do something like supply caches that actually have a decent chance of giving you something good? Cool. You wanna do the same thing but make it have a 99% chance to award me with the shittiest item in the box? No. That's not gambling, that's a scam.

So picking up a module, mech, mechbay, a weapon system worth 200-400-800k+ isn't something good? It costs a few cents for crying out loud.


Not to mention Salvage is a Classic Mech Warrior theme, and very much into lore.. Lore and salvage are something people have been begging for since beta, I guess cause it costs pocket change its blasphemy? Spend 7 bucks, and buy the smallest amount of MC, and get some keys, and pretty much all but the most rabid players would have enough keys to last um 3-6 months easy.... That is cheaper than buying just a single month of PT.. I guess PT is a scam too?

Typically you are getting something decent, and every now and again you can get something really sweet.. It's a bonus for those that feel like spending pocket change.. and those that don't still get 50k.. Don't wanna buy keys, Don't.. No one is forcing you..

Edited by JC Daxion, 28 July 2016 - 08:39 PM.

[Mole]

Selous, on 28 July 2016 - 07:28 PM, said:

It is not scam. It is your choice to open or sell it for 50K extra. Just sell it and you won't be "scammed". Your choice.

So because nobody forced you to fall for the scam, it's not a scam. Do I really need to explain what is wrong with that logic? Like, honestly? By your logic, scams simply don't exist. I hate to break it to you, but the whole point of scamming is to trick people into choosing to participate in your scam. Nobody has ever been forced into a scam.

[Ghogiel]

Mole, on 29 July 2016 - 08:41 AM, said:

So because nobody forced you to fall for the scam, it's not a scam. Do I really need to explain what is wrong with that logic? Like, honestly? By your logic, scams simply don't exist. I hate to break it to you, but the whole point of scamming is to trick people into choosing to participate in your scam. Nobody has ever been forced into a scam.

True. It's not really a scam though. Unless you consider all gambling with terrible odds stacked against you or hidden weighted percentages a scam...which I guess is not such an unreasonable opinion now I type it.

[JC Daxion]

Mole, on 29 July 2016 - 08:41 AM, said:

So because nobody forced you to fall for the scam, it's not a scam. Do I really need to explain what is wrong with that logic? Like, honestly? By your logic, scams simply don't exist. I hate to break it to you, but the whole point of scamming is to trick people into choosing to participate in your scam. Nobody has ever been forced into a scam.

So spending 7 bucks, giving you enough keys to open 50+ crates, that you could end up getting some darn nice stuff, Or at least Quite a few million money in sold items, or double that if you keep the stuff.. Things like Modules, XL engines, or even mechs if you get lucky.. But at the very least you are going to get well over 2.4m (the same cost it is to buy that much in a C-bill booster.. OR 7 days premium.. Which many people like myself would find a huge waste if i only played a few matches a night is some how a scam...

Please explain how this entire system is a giant scam..

And what is this trick??? Ohh yes they are tricking me into getting some nice rewards for a few bucks... the cost of a light hero, or a c-bill booster, a few days premium.. or what ever..

I think you need to take a step back cause it sounds like hate is blinding you

[Angel of Annihilation]

JC Daxion, on 28 July 2016 - 10:35 AM, said:

Classic example of angry vets.. *sigh... Not everyone has millions banked.. Not everyone has time to play 1k's of matches.. And me personally i have played since 2013, and well over 3k matches and i could use hundreds of millions to load up mechs with XL engines and modules, and even weapons in many..


For a few bucks, you can end up getting lots of gear to use, or sell for bonus C-bills.. with a single 7 buck purchase which would get you a ton of keys, and a couple of bays to use for months..


PGI makes a little money,.,

Players that use the system pays a tiny bit of money, and gets rewarded..

People that wanna avoid it get bonus 50k a pop..

How on earth is this anything but positive for the player base is beyond me.


For the way i play, it's far better than spending money on premium outside of buying day passes for 250mc because my game play isn't consistent so buying larger blocks often ends up going un-used. Any bonus C-bills or gear for a tiny amount of MC is good for me..

I posted this in another thread but the problem is that the experience is so negative.

I opened 3 boxes. In those 3 boxes, there were 21 items that I would have felt good about winning and only 3 items that were craptastic. I was excited about my chances to win because darn near 90% of the prizes were things I wanted to win. However in all three cases I got the 1 craptastic item.

The point I am making it isn't about anything other than how the whole process makes you feel. Instead of feeling good about getting the Supply Cache award at the end of a match because you know you have a good chance of getting some nice goodies, you just end up disappointed because when you do open the boxes be it with free keys or MC purchased keys, you realize your chance of getting anything even half way decent are like 1%.

So overall all the Supply Cache system does is make the players disappointed. If you use a key you get disappointed because you only win the craptastic stuff and if you sell them for the 50k C-bills you find your disappointed that you have to dispose of a prize you won rather than open it. It is lose-lose even if every box technically gives you something.

Edited by Viktor Drake, 29 July 2016 - 09:20 AM.

[Mole]

Viktor Drake, on 29 July 2016 - 09:19 AM, said:

I posted this in another thread but the problem is that the experience is so negative.

I opened 3 boxes. In those 3 boxes, there were 21 items that I would have felt good about winning and only 3 items that were craptastic. I was excited about my chances to win because darn near 90% of the prizes were things I wanted to win. However in all three cases I got the 1 craptastic item.

The point I am making it isn't about anything other than how the whole process makes you feel. Instead of feeling good about getting the Supply Cache award at the end of a match because you know you have a good chance of getting some nice goodies, you just end up disappointed because when you do open the boxes be it with free keys or MC purchased keys, you realize your chance of getting anything even half way decent are like 1%.

So overall all the Supply Cache system does is make the players disappointed. If you use a key you get disappointed because you only win the craptastic stuff and if you sell them for the 50k C-bills you find your disappointed that you have to dispose of a prize you won rather than open it. It is lose-lose even if every box technically gives you something.

This. If the odds weren't so obviously rigged to the point of the chances of you getting anything good being infinitesimally small I wouldn't be calling this a scam. Nor would I even be salty about it. But as it stands it seems like you've got a 99% chance to get the shittiest item in the box. Until those odds change, this will remain a scam in my mind.

JC Daxion, on 29 July 2016 - 09:03 AM, said:

And what is this trick???

I'll tell you what the trick is. Here's the trick: "Hey buddy, there's a nice shiny 'mech, a 'mechbay, a cool cockpit item, an expensive module, an equally expensive XL engine, and then uh, that little machine gun over there in this box. Don't you wanna spin? Huh? Come on man, you know you want this 'mech... (Shut up, man, don't tell him his chances of winning anything other than the machine gun are less than 1% or he'll never buy a key!)"

It's like those schemes that say that if you do all this and that etc. blah blah blah you can win a free Ferrari but they trick you into believing that winning the free Ferrari is a realistic goal when in reality there's no way you could actually achieve it.

Edited by Mole, 29 July 2016 - 09:57 AM.

[xengk]

recorded opening of 38 cache, for those who want to science it.

[JC Daxion]

Mole, on 29 July 2016 - 09:50 AM, said:

I'll tell you what the trick is. Here's the trick: "Hey buddy, there's a nice shiny 'mech, a 'mechbay, a cool cockpit item, an expensive module, an equally expensive XL engine, and then uh, that little machine gun over there in this box. Don't you wanna spin?

well I only opened 1, and i didn't even look what it had.. Just got it and paid 25MC and got a key, got a clan active probe.. To bad it is my IS account.. So 25 MC= 200k.. the crate did have 1k MC, and a mech i noticed as it spun, almost landed on 1k MC! that would of been many free keys.

I'll probably just save crates and open them as i get keys, or earn MC, and buy um.. this account has 66 mechs, But lacks tons of XL engines and modules so any bonus C-bills is all right with me.

Edited by JC Daxion, 29 July 2016 - 11:03 AM.

[C E Dwyer]

I'm sitting in the middle ground, a good way of buying c-bills and really the only worth while way, as you have a chance of winning somthing, but after 38, you'd think you'd get more than a single key

*shrugs*

As suspected great deals for new starts, but not worth considering if you have been here more than two years

[FuzzyNova]

Yeah everyone hopes to get the MC Prize in each Cache if that Cache has it. I saw one prize was 2500 MC. That's a good prize! The odds of getting it is something im not sure about. How does it work. When you open a cache it ticks through all the prizes fast then slows down and lands on one. Kind of like the wheel of prizes. Wheel of fortune. Whatever. I just don't understand the mechanics of that though. Like I would understand if say all the prizes were spinning fast. And you had to click the mouse to stop the wheel from spinning and then whatever it landed on was what you got. So it would feel as if we had control over the spin.

[Baulven]

See here is the thing. If they instituted salvage as a game mechanic that would award you parts and rarely a full mech that you would need to spend parts on (say metals electronics gyros and stabalizers) with the option to buy parts you are missing for small amounts of money there would be less complaints, as long as all pieces can be found in the game. If you don't like the salvage make it well for 10k.

That idea would have caught a **** ton less flak then the supply cache money grab that we got. Then again it would have taken more than almost zero effort so you know why something like that wasn't adopted.

[Lostdragon]

The sleazy thing about the caches is the fact that to the average player that doesn't read the forums it looks like you have a 1/8 chance to get each item. The interface is set up to convey this impression when that is clearly not the case.

[TWIAFU]

Has anyone got two caches both with the exact same items?