85 replies to this topic

[PhoenixFire55]

arivio, on 28 July 2016 - 02:33 AM, said:

But still nubetube, like LRM

Heh, I've seen em all. Topics about pretty much everything being no-skill.
Dual gauss - no skill. Gauss+PPCs - no skill. Full SRMs - no skill. Streaks - no skill. Lurms - no skill. Laservomit - no skill. AC spam - no skill etc. etc.
(My favorite was prolly when ACH came out and metA$$aults were crying how small pulses were no-skill) ...

When you ask "those" guys what weapon takes skill then its either their go-to crutch weapon or "mixed builds". And when I hear "mixed builds" it just makes me want to facepalm real hard.

I don't think weapon balance is a problem now. Actually I don't think it ever was and all disbalance we had or are having now
is caused by hitreg issues and them alone.

On that note Streaks are what registers really well thanks to server aiming them itself, and SkillTimber is my go to mech on an Oceanic server (ty 350 ping).

[H I A S]

PhoenixFire55, on 28 July 2016 - 02:44 AM, said:

Heh, I've seen em all. Topics about pretty much everything being no-skill.
Dual gauss - no skill. Gauss+PPCs - no skill. Full SRMs - no skill. Streaks - no skill. Lurms - no skill. Laservomit - no skill. AC spam - no skill etc. etc.
(My favorite was prolly when ACH came out and metA$$aults were crying how small pulses were no-skill) ...

the com is crying about everything.
my Problem with streaks and lrm is only that u dont have to aim, but they are bad weapons (ok streaks against lights do theire work).

Quote

When you ask "those" guys what weapon takes skill then its either their go-to crutch weapon or "mixed builds". And when I hear "mixed builds" it just makes me want to facepalm real hard.

hahahaha im a lorenerd and my Atlas with lurms, ac10 and SL should be viable!!!111eleven

Quote

I don't think weapon balance is a problem now. Actually I don't think it ever was and all disbalance we had or are having now
is caused by hitreg issues and them alone.

On that note Streaks are what registers really well thanks to server aiming them itself, and SkillTimber is my go to mech on an Oceanic server (ty 350 ping).

mostly, yes and ping is still a problem.

Edited by arivio, 28 July 2016 - 03:02 AM.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Koniving, on 27 July 2016 - 12:15 PM, said:

You mean these Streaks?

This streak cat?


Terrifying, wasn't it?
...Not really.

No, I mean the streaks when they were bugged and only tracked and hit the CT . Like I stated when I originally posted, which you clearly ignored.

[Koniving]

MeiSooHaityu, on 28 July 2016 - 03:26 AM, said:

No, I mean the streaks when they were bugged and only tracked and hit the CT . Like I stated when I originally posted, which you clearly ignored.

Actually -- they weren't bugged to track the CT, they only went after CT..

...And I didn't ignore it, they only seek the CT in those videos as this was during those days.
CT is the only thing they try to hit.
And that was the days of the CT-only streaks.
Some weeks to a month later, they changed to hitting 100% of the time and forking out.

That literally is the dreadful CT only Streaks.

Keep in mind when they did hit -- which was ultra rare at the blazingly high speeds of anything about 70 kph -- they were doing up to a total possible 29 damage PER MISSILE depending on the geometry of your mech. Jenners were immune to this issue due to a huge CT with almost non-existent STs. But you did this to a Commando and hit two or four streaks and you killed it instantly.

Atlases due to small center torsos also took immense damage -- while Awesomes with huge center torsos did not.

This is because of the Missile bug (which affected all missiles) would cause damage to multiply exponentially as part of the "Grenade" script of Crisis where explosive damage splash is devastating.

So use of those streaks on certain mechs was absolute hell.

Their accuracy however, chances to hit... were garbage if the user was fast.

Edited by Koniving, 28 July 2016 - 03:56 AM.

[Haipyng]

A light pilot's life is a nervous one.

• You need to be aware of what is around you -always.
  
• You can never stop moving.
  
• You never want to be in the open.
  
• Standing still for even a couple of seconds can be instant death or some severe damage.

Lights scout, cap and harass by attacking and retreating, while targeting situations that favor the light. The fast light should always pick the engagement. They are not intended to deal huge damage and they certainly are not intended to brawl a weight class higher than them.

Streaks are not the problem.

[CygnusX7]

Streaks spread damage more than any weapon in the game.

It's your fault.

[Mister Blastman]

FupDup, on 27 July 2016 - 11:52 AM, said:

I also hate them.

Alistair Winter made a nice picture that explains my beef with the current implementation of Streaks. He originally made it for LRMs, but it applies equally to SSRMs since the mechanic is identical.



TL;DR: Their skill floor is extremely low, and so is their skill ceiling.

One thing to consider: In Mechwarrior 2: Mercenaries, to get a lock with streaks you had to put your crosshairs in the box first (unless you had NARC lock) until the crosshairs turned red. Once they did you could move them out of the box for a second or two to adjust the trajectory. This was useful to get them to land higher or lower on a target or for them to arc around close corners. It added to the skill, much like strafe jumping adds immensely to the skill curve in classic Quake.

It is a user acted manipulation of the game state which provides a positive influence on their ability to win. The more of these traits that are present in a game, the deeper the skill curve is and greater the reward for practicing and playing.

I think LRMs are hard enough as is to do well with in MWO (I never use them so I'm probably ridiculously wrong). How about adding two different firing modes to them with the requirement of lock with middle of box for one of the two modes. The two modes I propose mirror the Hellfire missile used by the US army, LOBL and LOAL modes. In LOBL, lock is required before the missile is fired resulting in a very high trajectory. In LOBL mode, the missile can be fired and the lock established later, within seeker head limits, and has a much lower trajectory (missiles are much lower to the ground). In MWO we have LOAL only. What would be neat is we maintain lock-on before launch but have a toggle to switch between arcing bombardment (like we have now) and direct level flight like Mechwarrior 2 had.

In MWO the only time I worry about lurms is when I've got a narc attached to me or there's a UAV over my head I can't see or shoot down.

[Kubernetes]

I want to push back on the notion that Streaks take no skill. They take no aiming skill, but I'd argue that Streakboats require superior positioning skill to work well. My greatest strength is shooting, so when I take out a Streakboat I'm nullifying my greatest strength and replacing it with the RNG. Positioning is also one of my weakest skills, so using Streaks in a normal battle can be way more challenging than using direct fire weapons. There are guys who run Streaks and consistently do well even against heavies and assaults. What explains that? Pure luck?

[mogs01gt]

Kubernetes, on 28 July 2016 - 07:43 AM, said:

I want to push back on the notion that Streaks take no skill. They take no aiming skill, but I'd argue that Streakboats require superior positioning skill to work well. My greatest strength is shooting, so when I take out a Streakboat I'm nullifying my greatest strength and replacing it with the RNG. Positioning is also one of my weakest skills, so using Streaks in a normal battle can be way more challenging than using direct fire weapons. There are guys who run Streaks and consistently do well even against heavies and assaults. What explains that? Pure luck?

The weapon platform still lacks efficiency. Since the majority of matches will have Heavies, streaks arent strong enough to kill them.

[Pjwned]

I hate them because they are unfair against smaller, lighter targets while being mediocre against even most mediums (note: OP's example of all 36 damage from 3x SSRM6 hitting 1 torso component made me laugh hard) and complete garbage against any heavy or assault mech.

They need to be reworked completely so that they're reasonably effective against all weight classes.

[Escef]

Kubernetes, on 28 July 2016 - 07:43 AM, said:

There are guys who run Streaks and consistently do well even against heavies and assaults. What explains that? Pure luck?

Pure? No. Part of it is knowing when and what to engage. A large enemy with a bad leg, for example, can be severely hobbled by moving to the opponent's bad side before firing, increasing the odds of missiles that are targeting the good leg to hit the bad one anyway (and legs are popular places to store ammo, since few people go for the legs on a big mech, giving a lucky ammo crit as many chances as possible to happen doesn't hurt).

Streaks against big mechs rarely works well, but if you're really on top of your game you can force it. As a general rule, normal SRMs are better.

[Deathlike]

Kubernetes, on 28 July 2016 - 07:43 AM, said:

I want to push back on the notion that Streaks take no skill. They take no aiming skill, but I'd argue that Streakboats require superior positioning skill to work well. My greatest strength is shooting, so when I take out a Streakboat I'm nullifying my greatest strength and replacing it with the RNG. Positioning is also one of my weakest skills, so using Streaks in a normal battle can be way more challenging than using direct fire weapons. There are guys who run Streaks and consistently do well even against heavies and assaults. What explains that? Pure luck?

You're only talking about the damage dealt by Streaks... which technically could just as well be pulled off with SRMs or any other missile system.

The least productive damage is the one that isn't concentrated death.

[Ragnahawk]

kf envy, on 27 July 2016 - 11:19 PM, said:

so much salt

so what do you do about players that out good with A+SRM? they dont go all over on there hits like SSRM do. a good SRM user an put 24 SRMs into your lag or CT ware SSRM /A+SSRM wont all go into your CT or ware ever they want to blow off your mech.

with all the salty tears in this topic i can salt all my popcorn for weeks

Im not entitled to my opinion? Good Srm mechs are a majority IS and generally run an xl unless its that dirty ridiculous structure quirked 4SP or that catapult. In those cases i generally rip those srm users to pieces because they can barely land those srms. If i can take out panzermagier in his griffin, wouldnt that invalidate your statement?

Oh and thank you whoever explained that streak missiles are programmed to hit every visible component. I know now to just face a streak boat instead of exposing my side.

[Moldur]

Oh haha, this thread is about hating streaks because they are OP, not because they are useless against anything 50+ tons? Hold on, I have something for this.

[Aramoro999]

If only the Is had ssrm6, we could all be streaking together...into a happy new future!!

[TercieI]

Aramoro999, on 28 July 2016 - 10:02 AM, said:

If only the Is had ssrm6, we could all be streaking together...into a happy new future!!

I generally streak into left field. It gives me maximum visibility time before security catches me.

[Mole]

Streak Mad Dogs aren't that much of an issue because the only way a Mad Dog is gonna get in range of something small enough for the Streaks to be seriously effective is if the target is just not situationally aware. Streak Crows though, oh God I hate them with a bleeding passion. Every time I see one on the enemy team I go out of my way to target them first whether they are an immediate threat to me or not just because I despise the little ****** who decided he wanted to pilot a skillcrow and want him to die painfully. When I do kill one, I promptly tell them over All chat to "die in a fire" and then move on. I don't usually advocate PGI nerfing things so damn hard that they fade into oblivion but if they are gonna do that to something it needs to be Clan Streakboats.

[kf envy]

for this topic

[Burke IV]

The thing about LRMs and lock mechanics etc, the way they are now lets you engage 2 enemy mechs at the same, if you can juggle it, for quite a considerable amount of time. It doesnt happen alot but it does happen enough not to ignore.

brawl and lrm at same time i would be sad if they changed it so you cant do that anymore

Edited by Burke IV, 28 July 2016 - 11:31 AM.

[SHIN BRODAMA]

What a fascinating read this thread is. Too much to respond to by this point, but i'll throw my two cents in as someone who started as a noob in January 2016 and grinded through every tier (just made it to 1, woot woot).

While Oxides were the stuff of nightmares pre-rescaling, I can only recall one time where a streakboat gave me trouble and that was because there were 3 of them in a scouting match where my team was running 2 lights and 2 meds. Every other encounter I can remember has ended in me either disengaging to out-range the skillissles if i'm in a light and alone, or simply annihilating the mech as it spreads damage all over the place if i'm piloting anything else. Some exceptions to the light rule also - an ACH will run circles around a streakboat.

IMO if you're having trouble day in and day out with these things, you need to evaluate the tactics and quite possibly the builds you're bringing to a match. ID the target and its loadout and play accordingly, you'll have a much better time. Talk to your teammates, cycle in and out of the frontlines, adjust your mentality to that of a hunter and not the hunted. Fight, not fright.