36 replies to this topic

[Deathlike]

FallingAce, on 31 July 2016 - 05:23 PM, said:

Just had to do there, didn't you ?

Well, it's not a Failbucket (Trebuchet).

[ScarecrowES]

Bud Crue, on 31 July 2016 - 04:20 AM, said:

Right idea, but wrong implementation I think. Rather than custom buckets we get new cockpit items: A Steiner loyalty "pot", A Davion "pail", A Lao "vessel", A Marik "container", a Kurita "tub", etc. But all of them are identical, in every way. These "unique" buckets I think are more in keeping with the direction of the game.

Now that you mention it, I might actually be willing to pay real money for a bucket cockpit item. I could use it to contain the vomit I produce every time I see an Atlas or Kodiak with LRMs - and other similar situations.

[MechaBattler]

Community Warfare is dying because it's boring. You'll extend the life by applying a bandage like consolidating "buckets". But it's still going to be the same boring repetitive game modes. There is some strategic variety, but it's minimal and probably only high end Units can really notice it.

I feel like we need to do away with facade of the map. And just have a "Unit Career" thing. Where you can earn accolades for completing "missions" assigned to your unit. Could be a few simple things like winning X amount of group queue battles. Followed by matching your unit up against a unit of equal number, the rest filled in with pugs. Could have ladders or something. I dunno. But what we have now isn't going to keep players long term. Especially more casual players.

[ScarecrowES]

MechaBattler, on 31 July 2016 - 06:17 PM, said:

Community Warfare is dying because it's boring. You'll extend the life by applying a bandage like consolidating "buckets". But it's still going to be the same boring repetitive game modes. There is some strategic variety, but it's minimal and probably only high end Units can really notice it.

I feel like we need to do away with facade of the map. And just have a "Unit Career" thing. Where you can earn accolades for completing "missions" assigned to your unit. Could be a few simple things like winning X amount of group queue battles. Followed by matching your unit up against a unit of equal number, the rest filled in with pugs. Could have ladders or something. I dunno. But what we have now isn't going to keep players long term. Especially more casual players.

One way I think about it is this...

You have a man - he's just been in an accident. He's breathing on his own, but unconcious. Most of his injuries are minor, but his leg had been pinned beneath the dash and crushed. He's bleeding profusely from that crushed leg.

If you want to save the man's life NOW, what do you tackle first? Do you try to put the leg back together, or do you stop the bleeding? You might say, "well we need to do both." And noone would disagree with that. Fixing the man's leg will ensure that he has a better quality of life for as long as he lives. It's the difference between being able to walk - all the things that come with that - and not. It's absolutely important to do for the long-term. But if you don't stop the bleeding NOW, the man will die, and any amount of time and effort you put into trying to repair the man's leg will be worthless - because the man is already long-since dead.

Many MWO players would rather pay more attention to fixing the leg right now, and are ignoring the fact that the game is bleeding. If it continues to bleed, it will die. Pure and simple. The bucket discussion is about something that is certainly a cheap and easy thing. It's an action made to stop the bleeding.

Elegant, long-term solutions - hell, those designed to make a thing better rather than just maintain the status quo - are hard and take time. Should the focus be on elegant solutions, and only elegant solutions, the game will die long before any one of those can be produced.

The Faction Play community base is about as lean as it can get right now. The people still playing are dedicated to the mode. The need, right now, is to keep that player base happy and playing until something can be made that will satisfy both those folks AND everyone else. To do that, the devs need to make their experience under the systems that already exist as smooth and rewarding as they can.

TL;DR... Buckets, whether we like it or not for our long-term enjoyment of the game, are exactly what needs to be addressed NOW.

[Mystere]

As I wrote in another thread, why reduce the buckets? Why not instead just reduce the number of planets ... to exactly 1? In the meantime, build new maps. Develop new and more engaging game modes. Create a planetary campaign system.

Once that has been deemed satisfactory, expand CW size to a cluster of planets. Then shoot for higher level systems like logistics, mercenary contracts, or whatever.

Once that too has been deemed satisfactory, expand to a higher level of abstraction. Bring back, or redefine in game play terms, what it means to be in a faction, including but not limited to a reward system for taking/holding planets. Then rinse and repeat.

In other words, build from the ground up.

Seriously, though, does the Inner Sphere map really mean anything at this point in time anyway?

[JaxRiot]

Mystere, on 31 July 2016 - 06:43 PM, said:

As I wrote in another thread, why reduce the buckets? Why not instead just reduce the number of planets ... to exactly 1?

I like what youre saying, but what exactly does this mean? I thought the planets were Buckets (ques)

Are you suggesting a Tukkayyid type of Que with simply Clan vs IS on one planet?

[ScarecrowES]

I've said for a long time that the IS map itself is meaningless pretension with the status of the game being what it is. It's an illusion that gives players who don't know better a sense that their matches have actually purpose beyond their own result and rewards. The FP mode has never really progressed to a point to where that map has any real meaning.

Even Russ admitted in the round table - the mode has no "point." There is no end-game scenario. No win condition. Nothing that the various factions are meant to actually fight for. I chuckled a bit in a very sad sort of way when Russ suggested they might finally get around to creating a point to the mode - a way to "win the game."

Personally, I feel that if we KNOW the IS map is meaningless pretension, and maybe if the game is better-served to only pay lip-service to the map with more functional methods of playing the mode implemented to hold us over until something better can be done - then by god why don't we DO that?

For instance, I've suggested that we drop the notion of fighting only for your faction against one chosen enemy on your borders. Not for the sake of the map and how it functions, but how the matches work mechanically.

Imagine dropping into a Clan vs IS matchmaking queue instead of dropping on a specific planet of your choosing. If you win your match, you get a point for your faction. If any player on the team meets a threshold for match score worth rewarding, they also get a point for theirs. Up to 2 points for a win, and as few as none for a loss and poor individual performance. Points for each faction are kept in a running tally, and the points from two factions that are currently at war get compared to each other. Whichever one of those factions has more points at the end of a session gets the planet they're fighting over.

We've lost the pretension that the map dictates who we're fighting against, but your performance still directly impacts the map.

Your faction allegience still matters. It's just that it no longer matters who you decided to pick a fight with this week and whether or not enough of them are queuing to put up an actual fight.

[Mystere]

JaxRiot, on 31 July 2016 - 07:15 PM, said:

I like what youre saying, but what exactly does this mean? I thought the planets were Buckets (ques)

Are you suggesting a Tukkayyid type of Que with simply Clan vs IS on one planet?

Yes, I am suggesting exactly that. And hopefully, while that is happening, PGI is busy developing a planetary-level campaign system that we then constantly test.

[MechaBattler]

ScarecrowES, on 31 July 2016 - 06:33 PM, said:

One way I think about it is this...

You have a man - he's just been in an accident. He's breathing on his own, but unconcious. Most of his injuries are minor, but his leg had been pinned beneath the dash and crushed. He's bleeding profusely from that crushed leg.

If you want to save the man's life NOW, what do you tackle first? Do you try to put the leg back together, or do you stop the bleeding? You might say, "well we need to do both." And noone would disagree with that. Fixing the man's leg will ensure that he has a better quality of life for as long as he lives. It's the difference between being able to walk - all the things that come with that - and not. It's absolutely important to do for the long-term. But if you don't stop the bleeding NOW, the man will die, and any amount of time and effort you put into trying to repair the man's leg will be worthless - because the man is already long-since dead.

Many MWO players would rather pay more attention to fixing the leg right now, and are ignoring the fact that the game is bleeding. If it continues to bleed, it will die. Pure and simple. The bucket discussion is about something that is certainly a cheap and easy thing. It's an action made to stop the bleeding.

Elegant, long-term solutions - hell, those designed to make a thing better rather than just maintain the status quo - are hard and take time. Should the focus be on elegant solutions, and only elegant solutions, the game will die long before any one of those can be produced.

The Faction Play community base is about as lean as it can get right now. The people still playing are dedicated to the mode. The need, right now, is to keep that player base happy and playing until something can be made that will satisfy both those folks AND everyone else. To do that, the devs need to make their experience under the systems that already exist as smooth and rewarding as they can.

TL;DR... Buckets, whether we like it or not for our long-term enjoyment of the game, are exactly what needs to be addressed NOW.

They don't really want to step outside of their comfort zone. So perhaps the band-aids will help certain groups. But their last attempt at something new was to reduce it to 4v4 and lower drop weight. Not a huge leap in game development. Then the Long Tom created a situation where people refused to queue if they were on the receiving end.

[ScarecrowES]

MechaBattler, on 31 July 2016 - 08:51 PM, said:

They don't really want to step outside of their comfort zone. So perhaps the band-aids will help certain groups. But their last attempt at something new was to reduce it to 4v4 and lower drop weight. Not a huge leap in game development. Then the Long Tom created a situation where people refused to queue if they were on the receiving end.

Though one would have to recognize that scouting as a system (though perhaps not a mode) is a significant leap forward for FP. While Long Tom has been very controversial, to be... diplomatic... disasterous to not be... the mode and its rewards compliment Invasion fairly well. The mechanics of it work quite well, though the tuning of it leaves much to be desired. Better, it put forth a lot of systems which could be piggy-backed on later, which is extremely helpful in developing FP into something more than it is now.

[Dirus Nigh]

Edited by Dirus Nigh, 31 July 2016 - 09:49 PM.

[MechaBattler]

ScarecrowES, on 31 July 2016 - 09:24 PM, said:

Though one would have to recognize that scouting as a system (though perhaps not a mode) is a significant leap forward for FP. While Long Tom has been very controversial, to be... diplomatic... disasterous to not be... the mode and its rewards compliment Invasion fairly well. The mechanics of it work quite well, though the tuning of it leaves much to be desired. Better, it put forth a lot of systems which could be piggy-backed on later, which is extremely helpful in developing FP into something more than it is now.

I personally don't consider it a leap. More game modes in general does help though.

Edited by MechaBattler, 03 August 2016 - 08:20 PM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

I say we talk about the Flea. Battlemech number 16

http://mwomercs.com/...tlemech-16-flea

[Battlemaster56]

ScarecrowES, on 31 July 2016 - 06:14 PM, said:

Now that you mention it, I might actually be willing to pay real money for a bucket cockpit item. I could use it to contain the vomit I produce every time I see an Atlas or Kodiak with LRMs - and other similar situations.

I'll take two

[Revis Volek]

Alistair Winter, on 31 July 2016 - 02:06 AM, said:

Where can we pre-order these buckets? I would like a Collector's Bucket with custom camo pattern and 30% bucket bonus.

and some unique bucket geometry.